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Faction Focus - Chaos Space Marines

TrawlingCleaner
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Bloody Legionnaire Venerable Brother

Bloody Legionnaire

Posted
Posted
10 minutes ago, TheMawr said:

Heretic Astartes Mounted units ? Have we seen other datasheets or rules that references bikers and/or cavalry ? ( if not it likely might just be a catchall phrase for those in general and not a hint at daemonriding csm in the future :p... its weird to use mounted when the only applicable unit might be the lord discordant, who I think is likely to have a inv himself.)

 

Someone who runs the WH40k group FB page who was responding to comments answered "bikers" when someone posted a question on "mounted." Nothing crazy..

danodan123 Battle-Brother

danodan123

Posted
Posted
10 minutes ago, Kallas said:

Yes, some will depend on Icon access. But at a 28% base rate, you can reasonably expect 3/4 units not to suffer any damage in a given phase; if you're not really needing the extra output from DP for a units' shooting/fighting, then you can just choose not to take the chance; and even if you do, you get to benefit from it before you suffer the possible consequences. It's also possible that more units will (re)gain access to Icons, as some of the units that couldn't take them were a bit odd, but that remains to be seen.

 

As for strength, I think it's reasonably powerful compared to OOM. OOM is heavily limited in application: you get a benefit vs 5 units per game. It's a strong buff, but it is very limited in how much you actually benefit from it, whereas DP you can use on any applicable unit every turn, against possibly multiple enemy units. Compared to Shadow In The Warp, which is the Tyranid Army Rule, which you only ever benefit from once, and it is random (ie, a Ld test) whether an enemy unit is impacted or not, DP definitely seems like a decent Army Rule.

 

Maybe so, we'll have to wait and see I guess.

 

Not really compared it to the Nid one to be honest either as SM and CSM is much easier to compare, even if it shouldnt be.

 

And as for OOM, it just seems like that can have a massive impact on the game, you need to take something out? Here you go... even if it is 'only' 5 units per game. The CSM pacts just seems... to not have much affect.

 

But, to be fair also, I don't think exploding 6's do much anyway now.

acrozatarim Battle-Brother

acrozatarim

Posted
Posted

I think the bolter idea rather illustrates just how weak Dark Pacts seems to be, to me. Sustained Hits 1 on a full squad of 10 marines firing boltguns generated a little under 3.5 extra hits. Against marines, that's, what, less than one additional wound inflicted. Even against imperial guardsmen, you're averaging a little under two more wounds. Extra damage is nice but that's hardly groundbreaking stuff, and you have an unfortunate chance of doing more damage to your own squad than you added to the volley. And then, if you want the dark pact ability in close combat later in the turn, you have to take the risk *again*, for a very minor benefit.

ZeroWolf Venerable Brother

ZeroWolf

Posted
Posted
Just now, Indy Techwisp said:

I'm wondering if we're going to be alternating 1 Marine faction, 1 non-marine faction until we've done all the Loyalist and Chaos marine Factions?

We'll likely find out at the end of the Necron preview tomorrow.

chapter master 454 Venerable Brother

chapter master 454

Posted
Posted

That's some army rule. Means any unit in a chaos army can punch-up to a degree against hard targets and even get some work done againt hordes if needed.

 

Might of only dipped toes into world eaters so far but...I mean...we're making the mother of all black crusades here Gulliman, can't be worried about breaking a few eggs to make an omelette!

Only D3 wounds possibly for those sort of benefits is pretty nice.

 

However I am curious if they have mentioned yet: Do certain USRs combine together to get stronger? Like if you gain Sustained Hits (1) on a weapon that already has Sustain Hits (1) does that turn it into Sustained Hits (2) or is it a one or the other sort of deal?

TheMawr Veteran

TheMawr

Posted
Posted
22 minutes ago, Bloody Legionnaire said:

 

Someone who runs the WH40k group FB page who was responding to comments answered "bikers" when someone posted a question on "mounted." Nothing crazy..

 

Makes sure you dont end up with a big chariot carried by wolves running down tiny spaceship tunnels, because you forget chariot was a thing in addition to cavalry ;) universalising all those makes sense.

TrawlingCleaner Venerable Brother

TrawlingCleaner

Posted
  • Author
Posted (edited)

Interestingly the card is missing these as they're in the "Heretic Astartes Armoury Card": Plasma Gun, Missile Launcher and Heavy Bolter which are all things they can take now and also an option on the datacard. However they can also take a Lascannon now? It's not in the kit and it's not something they've been able to take since it was removed in the 9th codex, that's definitely interesting!

Edit: They could always take a Lascannon, I'm a dingus!

Edited by TrawlingCleaner
Kallas Venerable Brother

Kallas

Posted
Posted
22 minutes ago, danodan123 said:

And as for OOM, it just seems like that can have a massive impact on the game, you need to take something out? Here you go... even if it is 'only' 5 units per game. The CSM pacts just seems... to not have much affect.

Bear in mind that it's 5 units per gam, but not every unit you're using is going to benefit, and not every unit in your opponent's army is going to be in a good position for you to benefit from marking them as a target. Sure, it will help you delete a unit each turn, but if you can't bring enough guns to bear on them it's not going to make that happen anyway.

 

Generally, I think people are overreacting to the possible maximum power of OOM - sure, it will definitely help vs Knights, but it's not going to be super useful against an infantry-horde Guard army: oh, you annihilate this Infantry Squad extra hard...ok?  Situationally, yes, it will swing a game when your opponent tries to bring as Death Star-y a unit as possible, and that lets OOM leverage as much value as possible; but the times when that's not the case it's going to be less useful.

 

While Dark Pact is less directly powerful on an individual basis, your options are increased and you have a small power increase but spread across your entire army (assuming they're Heretic Astartes, of course). That one unit of Legionaries going up against that one unit of Intercessors on the flank, fighting over the objective? Those Intercessors are probably not going to get the benefit of OOM, but you absolutely can use DP to power up your Bolters, Plasma Gun, Havoc Autocannon, and then power up your CCWs to finish off what's left.

 

DP isn't always going to yield amazing results, and it certainly hurt you, so that's a tactical decision that players must take into account. OOM, similarly, isn't going to help everywhere on the battlefield, but it will help them gain local superiority in a specific part. They're both good, but in different ways.

 

22 minutes ago, acrozatarim said:

I think the bolter idea rather illustrates just how weak Dark Pacts seems to be, to me. Sustained Hits 1 on a full squad of 10 marines firing boltguns generated a little under 3.5 extra hits.

22 minutes ago, danodan123 said:

But, to be fair also, I don't think exploding 6's do much anyway now.

It very much depends on the weapon. Bolter? Eh, not so much. Meltagun? Literally doubles your number of shots.

Kaiju Soze Battle-Brother

Kaiju Soze

Posted
Posted (edited)
10 minutes ago, TrawlingCleaner said:

Interestingly the card is missing these as they're in the "Heretic Astartes Armoury Card": Plasma Gun, Missile Launcher and Heavy Bolter which are all things they can take now and also an option on the datacard. However they can also take a Lascannon now? It's not in the kit and it's not something they've been able to take since it was removed in the 9th codex, that's definitely interesting!

Pretty certain Legionaries can take Lascannons currently; the cross compatibility of the Havoc kit weapons and the Legionaries kit is one of the advertised features of Havocs.

Edited by Kaiju Soze
Specifying unit being referred to
BluejayJunior Veteran

BluejayJunior

Posted
Posted
23 minutes ago, chapter master 454 said:

However I am curious if they have mentioned yet: Do certain USRs combine together to get stronger? Like if you gain Sustained Hits (1) on a weapon that already has Sustain Hits (1) does that turn it into Sustained Hits (2) or is it a one or the other sort of deal?

Don't think we've seen anything addressing this yet. It will probably be explained in the core rules, but not sure if we'll see it previewed at all. 

Indy Techwisp Battle-Brother

Indy Techwisp

Posted
Posted
1 minute ago, lansalt said:

You know, for a new edition supposed to have less re-rerolls, playing CSM seems like it will involve a lot of rolls and re-rerolls.

 

Again, they did say that Space Marines would have more Re-Roll access and CSM are still Marines, despite falling to chaos.

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