Wh40k 10th Edition Faction Focus: Death Guard

[phandaal]

Death Guard win by stinking up the battlefield. Nice.

 

After looking at these faction focuses, we found out where all of the Leagues of Votann auto-wounds went! GW must have run out when they were giving them to everyone else. Luck has, need keeps!

[Bradeh]

2 minutes ago, KingYertle said:

I am having trouble comprehending the decision to dump Disgustingly Resilient.  DR has been the core ability of a Plague Marine for some 25 years.  It was literally the heart and soul of the faction.  Really makes the DG feel lackluster unless there is something significant that wasn't previewed.  GW really just killed my excitement for 10th edition.

 

They just had +1T in 3rd and 4th edition, no? 

[GenerationTerrorist]

Hmm, probably the most disappointing one so far.

Not just the lack of info on any battle line troops, or Morty/Typhus, but the seeming loss to DR is quite a big hit. Also, the faction ability really does not scream "deadly" to me.

 

Hopefully there will be some ways to modify the -1T to a -2T or -3T through shenanigans, or some sort of faction-wide FNP rule, because otherwise these guys might as well just be any other CSM.

[Mogger351]

1 minute ago, Bradeh said:

 

They just had +1T in 3rd and 4th edition, no? 

I can't recall off top of my head but mark of nurgle was +1 T, there was a FNP somewhere I'm sure, but it's a mechanical challenge more than something, it's hard to balance out something that hypothetically gains 33% extra wounds or whatever vs literally any wound taken. It makes it slow and tedious to deal with high damage attacks on large targets as a real kicker and is a bit of a feel bads mechanic for the attacker in a lot of senses.

[Blight1]

Deathguard have had feel no pain for a very long time and then disgustingly resilient in 8th with the change to -1 damage in 9th.

With the return of feel no pain as a universal special rule I really thought we'd get it back but instead we get nothing.

This was generally considered a terrible idea when they did it to nurgle daemons in 9th (there's a reason you don't see them right now).  No idea why GW think it's a great idea now.

Seems like everyone but eldar are getting nerfed to 8th ed index stats -1.

[TrawlingCleaner]

27 minutes ago, Special Officer Doofy said:

 

Less durability, less movement, pigeonholing into melee even though they are the slowest army in 40k, weapons still being strength 4-8, multi meltas only being S9, Mortarion probably losing his -1D and 5+++, characters like the plaguecaster joining squads and then not interacting with them unless they fail a test and causes mortal wounds to them. I'm looking forward too! Sky's the limit.

 

T5, 3+ armour, 2W basic infantry, most basic weapons and special weapons seem to be autowounding on 6s, reducing toughness auras with an army wide "sticky objective" rule that also gives off a reducing Toughness aura, an ability that slows your opponents unit down, an ability that reduces enemy units melee potential, force enemy Battle Shock out of sequence (which means they can't Insane Bravery), give a unit Sustained hits 1 or 2 depending on where they are on the battlefield.

 

As with all of the rest of these reveals, it's such a small percentage of the army and missing a lot more context. Things are different, not automatically worse

[Squark]

It does feel odd that a faction famed for its legendary durability has no actual rule related to that, especially since the +1T to terminators is just the logical progression of all other terminators also getting +1 toughness.

 

The jump to T6 also doesn't feel as impactful to me as the jump to T5 is since anti-terminator weaponry is in that S7-8 range usually, so it doesn't change the math of the weapons people use to hunt terminators.

Edited May 17, 2023 by Squark

[Lord Marshal]

A-At least the Plaguecaster's powers look alright...? 

 

I would have liked to see the Plague Marine datasheet but what can y'do.

 

31 minutes ago, phandaal said:

Death Guard win by stinking up the battlefield. Nice.

 

After looking at these faction focuses, we found out where all of the Leagues of Votann auto-wounds went! GW must have run out when they were giving them to everyone else. Luck has, need keeps!

 

My initial reaction was, "Huh, so DG keep their wide-spread autowounds then?" It does increasingly make the Votann changes feel like knee-jerk back alley surgery to their rules than something they were conscious about bringing in line with other armies having less access to. Of course, I don't want to stink up the DG thread by ranting about Votann some more (even though I just did).

 

 

Edited May 17, 2023 by Lord Marshal

[Bradeh]

Death Guard needs Lethal Hits because they have hardly no weapons over S8, especially in the new model range. 

 

Never going to get too worked up over rules, they come, they go, they change. I'm sure with enough constructive input they will change over time but not worth the stressing out saying I'm never playing again. 

 

4 minutes ago, Squark said:

It does feel odd that a faction famed for its legendary durability has no actual rule related to that, especially since the +1T to terminators isnjust the logical progression of all other terminators also getting +1 toughness.

 

Just just Terminators, all units. 

Edited May 17, 2023 by Bradeh

[Mogger351]

3 minutes ago, Squark said:

It does feel odd that a faction famed for its legendary durability has no actual rule related to that, especially since the +1T to terminators isnjust the logical progression of all other terminators also getting +1 toughness.

In a world of 1w t3 4/5+ save models, don't you think basic infantry with 2w t5 3+ is durable?

[jaxom]

37 minutes ago, KingYertle said:

I am having trouble comprehending the decision to dump Disgustingly Resilient.  DR has been the core ability of a Plague Marine for some 25 years.  It was literally the heart and soul of the faction.  Really makes the DG feel lackluster unless there is something significant that wasn't previewed.  GW really just killed my excitement for 10th edition.

8 minutes ago, Squark said:

It does feel odd that a faction famed for its legendary durability has no actual rule related to that, especially since the +1T to terminators is just the logical progression of all other terminators also getting +1 toughness.

This was definitely an anemic preview so I'd hedge my bets on it being part of the large swath of things not shown. So far every Troop-type unit we've seen has a rule interacting with objectives. The Hearthkyn Warriors got sticky objectives, but DG have it as part of their Detachment Ability. My guess is that Plague Marines will have a unit rule which gives them FnP or damage reduction while they are on/near an objective. The Biologis will probably also have a FnP granting rule (either Aura or for a unit he joins). Mortation may also have an Aura option (he'll probably have "choose one of three" ala Abaddon, Guilliman, Angron, and Cawl) which increases resiliency of nearby units.

[Squark]

9 minutes ago, Mogger351 said:

In a world of 1w t3 4/5+ save models, don't you think basic infantry with 2w t5 3+ is durable?

Sure, but not that much more than their fellow 2W T4 3+ posthumans.

Edited May 17, 2023 by Squark

[Blight1]

So what does having the objective generate a disease aura actually do?  If an opponent runs up to a sticky objective they clear it at the end of their turn so you can't take advantage of it in your shooting phase and if you have units on the objective and you fight them in melee on their turn then the units have the disease aura.

What does it actually do?

[Bloody Legionnaire]

I've read thru the article. Nowhere was it stated that there was a removal of a disgustingly resilient/FNP type or that one absolutely was not going to be a rule.. so once again panic sets in over something omitted and not necessarily gone. *eye roll* 

It's an index reset like 8th. These are just rules to get people playing while codices are being written. The sky certainly is not falling. We are also entering a new edition that will play differently from 9th edition 40k. The gnashing of teeth and bemoaning is bit much... 

Edited May 17, 2023 by Bloody Legionnaire

[Mogger351]

11 minutes ago, Squark said:

Sure, but not that much more than their fellow 2W T4 3+ posthumans.

That's all perspective though, I'm sure nearly all small arms dropping by 33% efficiency on wounding is pretty noteworthy. The other side is if you push the durability too hard you have to compensate somewhere, so either we get complaints they can't kill anything or there's about 7 of them on the field.

[Large and Moving Torb]

43 minutes ago, Bradeh said:

 

They just had +1T in 3rd and 4th edition, no? 

 

In the 3.5 codex, DG had Daemonic Resilience which gave a pip of extra toughness except against Instant Death attacks. They also had True Grit which allowed them to treat their bolters as bolt pistols in CC, which meant they got an extra attack. In the 4th edition codex, True Grit was traded for Feel No Pain which gave a 4+ ignore wound, but not against power weapons, power fists, and Instant Death attacks.

 

And context is key - that extra toughness in 3rd/4th edition meant a lot more when there were fewer high-strength ranged weapons game-wide and infantry units couldn't move and fire heavy weapons at all. So the 10th loss of DR without a replacement like it or FNP or something is an absolute downgrade. I can see why people are upset as DG is one of the armies I play as well.

[Urauloth]

Can you just tarpit a Blightlord unit out of the game by getting a vehicle into combat with them? Looks like they have to fish for crits to do anything to armour. Seems like a bad situation for a terminator unit to be in.

[Dark Legionnare]

9 minutes ago, Blight1 said:

So what does having the objective generate a disease aura actually do?  If an opponent runs up to a sticky objective they clear it at the end of their turn so you can't take advantage of it in your shooting phase and if you have units on the objective and you fight them in melee on their turn then the units have the disease aura.

What does it actually do?

As far as I can tell by the wording, (Since it's end or start of ANY TURN) it will only help you for out-of-sequence stuff. Like, if they "Rapid Ingress" (If you don't know, that's a core stratagem to put 1 DS unit onto the field in your opponents movement phase) onto your sticky-d point it would make them -1T through your shooting phase. But that's about it. (Including other OOS stuff, like, blood surge for WE moving onto a point or such)

Edited May 17, 2023 by Dark Legionnare

[Petitioner's City]

1 hour ago, KingYertle said:

I am having trouble comprehending the decision to dump Disgustingly Resilient.  DR has been the core ability of a Plague Marine for some 25 years.  It was literally the heart and soul of the faction.  Really makes the DG feel lackluster unless there is something significant that wasn't previewed.  GW really just killed my excitement for 10th edition.

 

Feel No Pain was only introduced for PMs in the 2007 Cavatore/Thorpe codex, and wasn't a part of their rules in 3rd and for most of 4th. 

 

All the Plague Marines since 3rd to 7th

 

 

 

 

Codex Chaos Space Marines, 1999:

 



 

Codex Chaos Space Marines, 2002:

 



 

Codex Chaos Space Marines, 2007 (with 2004 rulebook for FNP)

 



 

And the 2008 5th edition FNP:

 



 

Codex Chaos Space Marines 2012

 



 

and 2012 rulebook FNP

 



 

2016 - Codex Supplement: Traitor Legions

 



 
 

 

 

Overall, very interesting to see 2007 as a key change, and then FNP becoming even more effective in 6th!

 

 

 

Edited May 17, 2023 by Petitioner's City

[lansalt]

Dunno about their rules, but it's outrageous that in the BL section they recommend the Dark Imperium trilogy and not The Lords of Silence as the best way to learn about the Death Guard in 40k.

[Lord Marshal]

6 minutes ago, lansalt said:

Dunno about their rules, but it's outrageous that in the BL section they recommend the Dark Imperium trilogy and not The Lords of Silence as the best way to learn about the Death Guard in 40k.

 

Lords of Silence is only the one book. Why advertise one when you can potentially sell three!

[Large and Moving Torb]

I also find it disappointing that the Reaper Autocannon didn't get the stat line increases the Havoc AC did. Yes, the special rules added to it are nice, but I think it makes the Reaper AC more of an anti-infantry weapon now, which means even light vehicles could be a problem for DG. DG really need more weapons (or ways) to deal with vehicles. I realize this is a small preview and maybe there is more that's good that's not shown, but that is just conjecture and wishcasting at this point. The current omens portend rough sledding for DG.

[Plaguecaster]

This is downright pathetic screw the toughness debuff why the hell have death guard got absolutely no rule to actually make them resilent.

Thanks GW for removing the one thing that actually made death guard unique 

I only play death guard si thus will really make it annoying and they better realize their stupidity and give us back disgusting resilence in some form when we get a codex. Just hope they haven't made it a stratagem only ability.

 

Also dammit still no form of inv save on the plaguecaster seriously that sucks 

Edited May 17, 2023 by Plaguecaster

[jaxom]

1 hour ago, Blight1 said:

So what does having the objective generate a disease aura actually do?  If an opponent runs up to a sticky objective they clear it at the end of their turn so you can't take advantage of it in your shooting phase and if you have units on the objective and you fight them in melee on their turn then the units have the disease aura.

What does it actually do?

Later in the game, when the aura is 9” there is a chance you could shoot an enemy unit getting ready for a late game objective grab from across the board. Niche case, but still.

[tzeentch9]

Amused that people were complaining about the Damage reduction and hoping for feel no pain back instead and now there is neither.