Wh40k 10th Edition Space Marine Index

[OttoVonAwesome]

4 hours ago, Wugo_Heaving said:

 

I wish this knee-jerk hyperbole would stop. You have no idea how much their points are, and on top of that you do realise that you will be facing an opponent who might just prioritise taking them out turn 1, and in a position in which their (possible) shoot on death rule won't do much or any damage?

 

I have no idea what that means I just think they are broken it's my opinion. They were always a tournment staple Iv'e rarely a seen a list without 10 of them now they've essentially made them even stronger in a low AP edition so fat chance they won't still be everywhere. That's just boring to me so not taking them if that makes sense. If I have to face them I'll prolly just bomb them with a guided whirlwind or smash them in melee sure as hell won't try getting into a shootout with them unless I outrange them or I've already killed half of them oh yeah scout snipers another good way to deal with them. I suppose I could have been clearer in my statement. There's so many good units in the index it just feels boring to stick with the golden child of the last two editions.

[Arkangilos]

2 hours ago, Syphid said:

Just make it all the same - Storm Shield: This model has a 4+ Invulnerable Save and +1 wound. No Astartes Shield, Terminator Storm Shield, Relic Shield... Just one thing.

It isn’t because they each individually do different things. The same shield name on two different units does two different things.

 

It doesn’t really matter because it is on the card. 
 

I mean personally I agree it should just be one thing, in the old “wargear selection” style, but I’m not too jossed by it because the rule is right in front of you and visible, so we will both know what it does.

[DemonGSides]

2 minutes ago, Arkhanist said:

 

If you don't want to wait, you can pick up a 3d printed resin upgrade kit for a Redemptor to turn it into a brutalis fairly cheaply; a quick search turns up

option 1

option 2

 

I've also seen that you can kitbash using a set of claws from the leviathan Close Combat Upgrade Sprue, and multimelta or heavy bolter fronts from your bits box.

 

I think my dream is to have all 3 variants, cuz I have 3 stormravens, so loading up one in each and a squad of heavy hitters in each and just hurling them at my buddies.  Probably terrible, gonna have fun doing it regardless.

Just gotta figure out a way to actually magnetize the dread to the stormraven for ultimate cool points...

 

[Progenitor]

For those people worried about how quickly cards will be invalidated, overall GW has been very hesitant about changing AoS warscrolls outside of codex releases. Pink Horrors are the only ones I can think of off the top of my head that got a change outside of a book cycle and cards release. So these index cards might change with the codexes but considering how long they've been out by then I'm not sure they would be. 

[SkimaskMohawk]

They also try their hardest to not change anything that's printed to cards for AT2018.  That being said, they do FAQ stuff still, but they don't bother ordering new print runs which is...irksome.

[Dark Legionnare]

12 hours ago, Wugo_Heaving said:

You do realise you can change your own house rules, right?

 What are you talking about?

 

That was me saying "It's an obvious house rule right off the rip for our group", not saying "house rules are immutable."

Edited June 11, 2023 by Dark Legionnare

[Arikel]

Took me a while to read through the index and the subsequent 14 page thread. I for one am more pleased than upset for the most part. While there is still some divide between primaris and firstborn it is almost gone, with only a few aggravating instances (Rhinos and Leaders for the most part).

 

In any case it seems like it should be relatively easy to proxy primaris and firstborn figures as each other, looking forward to testing out some squads and using my Imperium captain as a firstborn, since his load out isn’t legal otherwise.

 

Very cool to see flamer and inferno pistols open up to general use as well.

 

Grav weapons look pretty sick against vehicles. The missing answer to man portable anti tank I suppose.

 

Haven’t built my sternguard yet. Regular bolters I guess with combi’s going on the odd sergeant in old timey squads instead for cool factor.

 

Vanguard kinda got shafted. I have several now that just got promoted to lieutenants and/or captains.

Assault squads got pretty glowed up, especially the foot knight version. Look like lots of fun.

 

I don’t tend to use named characters often but nice to see old names back. Part of the reason I bought GK kits was to get a spear to build a Vulkan standin. Looks like he is back on the menu.

 

I would tentatively assume that nothing we see here  are legends profiles. If they were we should see cards for honour guard and other units/named characters who were discontinued.

 

I would hope the codexes coming out later don’t shake up the index or openness of the detachments too much. It’s not perfect but with the right units and weapon selection you can build a force right now that approximates almost all the extant chapter preferences. Guess we’ll get a closer look at it when the divergent chapter indexes are released and see how much they add.

[Kallas]

2 hours ago, Arikel said:

I would tentatively assume that nothing we see here  are legends profiles. If they were we should see cards for honour guard and other units/named characters who were discontinued.

As an intensely negative person, I would expect they other way: the units we know are going to Legends (eg, Dreadnoughts, Relic Terminators) are included, but won't be in the Codex, and the older Legends stuff will just be completely gone.

 

May very well be wrong on that, and I'd rather be wrong, but I have no faith any more.

[Doghouse]

As it's not that far from the codex release I think I am going to wait before I go making any purchases. The way that the living rulebook tends to work I can see lots of people jumping on obviously overly powerful units only to see them get nerfed in a couple of months when the codex drops. It will certainly be interesting to see if anything changes drastically or not and possibly set the bar for other armies.

 

While it is an extremely good indication of where the army is heading I am going to be a bit more prudent. Some of the combos feel like death star exploits to me.

 

Generally I am liking a lot of what I am seeing and the idea of certain units having specific skills is not a bad idea to try and make units more appealing as it's been one of my biggest issues of previous editions. There are a few minor quibbles but most of those have been covered previously in this thread.

 

Free stats is really really positive in my book I just hope that continues and it will be interesting to see how they handle that when a codex drops. I'm wondering if newer units will become codex exclusives.

[Warden-Paints]

27 minutes ago, Doghouse said:

As it's not that far from the codex release I think I am going to wait before I go making any purchases. 

 

Aside from 25 terminators? 

[Karhedron]

32 minutes ago, Doghouse said:

Some of the combos feel like death star exploits to me.

 

I think that the general limit of 1 characters per squad will help to keep that in check somewhat. Also GW seem to have been quite careful about limiting access to certain squads. For instance, a Lt cannot join a Desolator squad where their Lethal Hits ability would be coupled with a huge bucket of dice.

[Feral_80]

Perhaps this has been addressed already, but what about the -1 damage on the Redemptor? 

 

It no longer says this cannot reduce down to 0, technically making it immune to d1 weapons.

 

Found nothing in the rulebook either. That has to be faq'd soon before it gets abused.

 

 

 

[Aramis K]

18 hours ago, CCE1981 said:

How I see it:

Ancients give +1 Objective control.  If a Space Marine Squad with an Ancient fails Battleshock, the unit goes to 0 OC, then the Ancient banner kicks in giving each model OC 1.

 

Love this flavour, strong cover art last stand vibes.

 

Lots of great thematic abilities and pairings in here. 

 

I am surprised though that we haven't seen any more upcoming units before the printed cards - I thought there would be a launch wave. Perhaps they'll start putting them in boxes for new units. 

[Commander Nicky]

Is there anyone who knows where the points cost in the index is? I mean, yeah now we/I know what they can do, but you still can't yet play with them in a match, right?

 

Also is it just me, or does the Vanguard Vets squads sucks with their heirloom weapons?

[ZeroWolf]

4 hours ago, Arikel said:

Took me a while to read through the index and the subsequent 14 page thread. I for one am more pleased than upset for the most part. While there is still some divide between primaris and firstborn it is almost gone, with only a few aggravating instances (Rhinos and Leaders for the most part).

 

In any case it seems like it should be relatively easy to proxy primaris and firstborn figures as each other, looking forward to testing out some squads and using my Imperium captain as a firstborn, since his load out isn’t legal otherwise.

 

Very cool to see flamer and inferno pistols open up to general use as well.

 

Grav weapons look pretty sick against vehicles. The missing answer to man portable anti tank I suppose.

 

Haven’t built my sternguard yet. Regular bolters I guess with combi’s going on the odd sergeant in old timey squads instead for cool factor.

 

Vanguard kinda got shafted. I have several now that just got promoted to lieutenants and/or captains.

Assault squads got pretty glowed up, especially the foot knight version. Look like lots of fun.

 

I don’t tend to use named characters often but nice to see old names back. Part of the reason I bought GK kits was to get a spear to build a Vulkan standin. Looks like he is back on the menu.

 

I would tentatively assume that nothing we see here  are legends profiles. If they were we should see cards for honour guard and other units/named characters who were discontinued.

 

I would hope the codexes coming out later don’t shake up the index or openness of the detachments too much. It’s not perfect but with the right units and weapon selection you can build a force right now that approximates almost all the extant chapter preferences. Guess we’ll get a closer look at it when the divergent chapter indexes are released and see how much they add.

You know, I honestly never thought of proxying the imperium captain as a first born one...thanks for the idea!

[jimbo1701]

4 minutes ago, Commander Nicky said:

Is there anyone who knows where the points cost in the index is? I mean, yeah now we/I know what they can do, but you still can't yet play with them in a match, right?

 

Also is it just me, or does the Vanguard Vets squads sucks with their heirloom weapons?

Not installed til Friday 

[Doghouse]

2 hours ago, Warden-Paints said:

 

Aside from 25 terminators? 

 

Ah but those are for Heresy not 40k.  I was looking at Land Raider Crusaders and Redeemers for 40k but will hold off for now.

[Emperor Ming]

Wording on the redemptor dreadnoughts duty eternal

 

 

[Brother Carpenter]

Nice to see tacticals are stil there. Now I can open those 3ed tac squad boxes i found still sealed upstairs 

[Dark Shepherd]

Marine buffs to hit (will update this)

:

Oath of Moment

Bladeguard can pick rerolls ones to hit

terminator Ancient grants plus one to hit if unit is below full strength

Terminators/Relic Termies plus one to hit v OAM target

Incursors: if they hit a unit shooting other nuits get plus one to hit against it

Ironclad dreads v vehicles/buildings

 

Infantry within 6' of firstborn dread can reroll 1s to hit

 

Techamrine can give a vehicle plus one to hit shooting (which is good)

 

Edited June 11, 2023 by Dark Shepherd

[SkimaskMohawk]

4 hours ago, Doghouse said:

As it's not that far from the codex release I think I am going to wait before I go making any purchases. The way that the living rulebook tends to work I can see lots of people jumping on obviously overly powerful units only to see them get nerfed in a couple of months when the codex drops.

 

This is kinda what happened in the transition to 9th. The points dropped with Indomitus and aggressors were really pushed, as well as relic terminators. Codex comes along a few months later and both those units are very different and burned a lot of people who over invested.

[mel_danes]

5 hours ago, Feral_80 said:

Perhaps this has been addressed already, but what about the -1 damage on the Redemptor? 

 

It no longer says this cannot reduce down to 0, technically making it immune to d1 weapons.

 

 

 

 

 

Anti-tank weapons are nearly all high damage multi wound weapons. I for one look forward to the end of plinking 1 wound at a time off vehicles with small arms fire.

 

Frankly a rule like units with toughness 3x strength are immune to d1 weapons wouldn't bother me.

[Kilamandaros]

Stormraven has a similar rule and possibly more problematic as can't be charged by non-fly. Against some armies it wouldn't be difficult to take out the enemy's anti-tank early and then have invulnerable death machines flying over the battlefield, unable to be damaged!

[zero888]

I would think the -1D rule will be FAQd day one, kind of like saving throws one's always fail. Stormraven does look solid now though, it better cost a fair bit of points.

 

Overall this index looks way better than Tyranids, there's still quite a bit of customization then the character bonuses create cool synergizing combos, I feel like the Nids lost all of that. The importance of Battleline and OC and how that factors into points will be something to watch for, since things like Assault Marines vs Assault Intercessors look very lobsided as of now. The only other red flag im thinking about is the D3 on Grav Cannons, I think D2 or Damage D3 would have been more appropriate. But we'll see where the points take us

[Rain]

1 minute ago, zero888 said:

I would think the -1D rule will be FAQd day one, kind of like saving throws one's always fail. Stormraven does look solid now though, it better cost a fair bit of points.

 

Overall this index looks way better than Tyranids, there's still quite a bit of customization then the character bonuses create cool synergizing combos, I feel like the Nids lost all of that. The importance of Battleline and OC and how that factors into points will be something to watch for, since things like Assault Marines vs Assault Intercessors look very lobsided as of now. The only other red flag im thinking about is the D3 on Grav Cannons, I think D2 or Damage D3 would have been more appropriate. But we'll see where the points take us

Death Guard have a 2CP strat that gives -1D to a unit without the “to a minimum of 1 caveat.” The strat would be complete trash if the caveat was intended, especially for 2 CP. Then again, most of 10th DG is trash so…there probably will be a global FAQ to put all D reduction mechanics to a minimum of 1.