Wh40k 10th Edition Space Marine Index

[Dark Shepherd]

4 hours ago, Kilamandaros said:

Stormraven has a similar rule and possibly more problematic as can't be charged by non-fly. Against some armies it wouldn't be difficult to take out the enemy's anti-tank early and then have invulnerable death machines flying over the battlefield, unable to be damaged!

Stormravens are tough but have taken some big hits as transports eg 500 point limit on reserves in 2k games, have to start in hover OR reserves

 

Think aircraft lost minus one to hit too?

[Kastor Krieg]

The flying brick carrying Brutalis specifically out of all Redemptos is no surprise - the OG technique started with carrying Blood Angel Furioso boxdreads which the Brutalis is basically a carbon copy of.

[Karhedron]

I am really hoping that the full codex gives the option to mix n' match Chaplain and Librarian power. My understanding is that this is how it works in AoS.

 

A Primaris Chaplain with Catechism of Fire leading an Infernus squad would be amazing. That would be an average of 6MWs per volley plus normal damage and that is before rerolls. If the target is OOMed, that is more like 11 MWs.

[FarFromSam]

I'm excited to see points costs.  I know they're only drip feeding rules to up the Fear of Missing Out. Although, it is nice to sit and see what style of play I'm drawn to thematically when there is an absence of points value.  So, again, good job GW. 

 

Let's see if they can stick the landing by releasing balanced and fun points costs!

[Plaguecaster]

1 hour ago, Karhedron said:

I am really hoping that the full codex gives the option to mix n' match Chaplain and Librarian power. My understanding is that this is how it works in AoS.

 

A Primaris Chaplain with Catechism of Fire leading an Infernus squad would be amazing. That would be an average of 6MWs per volley plus normal damage and that is before rerolls. If the target is OOMed, that is more like 11 MWs.

I wouldn’t count on it AOS has actual lores /list of powers they can take which all psykers have access to, powers on the datesheet have always only been for that unit only even for AOS. 

[sal of manders]

4 hours ago, Dark Shepherd said:

Stormravens are tough but have taken some big hits as transports eg 500 point limit on reserves in 2k games, have to start in hover OR reserves

 

Think aircraft lost minus one to hit too?

 

-1 to hit is gone for all sm aircraft.  As worded it looks like all aircraft must start in reserves.

 

EDIT: missed the hover section earlier, so the below only applies if they don't start in hover.

 

However, the percentage point limit only applies to units placed in "strategic reserve" BEFORE the battle starts. Aircraft are taken as "reserve" (not "strategic reserve") BEFORE the battle starts.  They are not counted as "strategic reserve" until AFTER the battle starts, so they aren't actually subject to the 25% of army limit. You still need to take a character as a warlord, but the entire rest of your army could be aircraft.

 

Edited June 12, 2023 by sal of manders

[Silas7]

4 hours ago, Dark Shepherd said:

Stormravens are tough but have taken some big hits as transports eg 500 point limit on reserves in 2k games, have to start in hover OR reserves

 

Think aircraft lost minus one to hit too?

 

Did anyone else notice the Stormhawk interceptor having hover now

[Dark Shepherd]

1 hour ago, Silas7 said:

 

Did anyone else notice the Stormhawk interceptor having hover now

All 3 marine flyers seem to have it (and probably faction specific ones)

 

IMO flying transports have to start in hover, hopefully you can find cover for them, otherwise theyre not great for delivering melee units at all

 

Fingers crossed Stormwolf's get the assault ramp rule

[Montford]

The Chaplain on Bike went to Legends at least four years ago so I was very surprised, and quite happy, to see it!

[Dark Shepherd]

Gonna be kinda funny "advancing" a hovering transport flyer d6.inches in tactical doctrine

Edited June 12, 2023 by Dark Shepherd

[sandrorect]

4 hours ago, Montford said:

The Chaplain on Bike went to Legends at least four years ago so I was very surprised, and quite happy, to see it!

 

The chaplain on bike of th edataset is the primaris chaplain on bike, no the old one. In fact is because the old one go to legend the primaris keyword have disapered.

 

The ones with normal servoarmour is still with 2 options (primaris and firstborn) is because GW still sell both models. 

[Brother Christopher]

I was adamant about not having any expatiations for 10th edition and not get hyped for it to avoid disappointment but the way GW handled Vanguard Vets in this Index got me annoyed. Congrats to GW for finding new and unexpected ways to bum me out. I'm all for making the game more streamlined but the inconsistency is driving me mad, particularly since I have a invested way too much time 'future proofing' my Vanguard Vets and I HATE USING MAGNETS. Now it feels like all the effort with the Power Fists and Lightning Claws is wasted since now VV don't have access to them and, to be honest, I'm not having high hopes for that to change in the proper codex.

 

At the same time, w still have a gazillion pistol options. With some unit profiles we have extreme simplification, while others retain a weird level of granularity. The game design is all lover the place.

 

I'm still somewhat curious whether 10th edition will be playable but from what I'm seeing, the core experience won't be changing as much as GW appeared to be suggesting. Regardless, I'd really like to get back to gaming - hopefully the rules will be manageable to an adult having a job and other hobbies :D

 

 

[Kallas]

55 minutes ago, Brother Christopher said:

At the same time, w still have a gazillion pistol options. With some unit profiles we have extreme simplification, while others retain a weird level of granularity. The game design is all lover the place.

Yup, it really is inconsistent, and especially for things like Vanguard where stripping off their weapon options is obnoxious: they have a heap of options that are now completely different from every other instance in the Index where they have proper rules. Vanguard Thunder Hammers/Power Fists/Power Weapons are worse than regular Power Weapons (5/-1/1 vs 5/-2/1). Madness.

[Interrogator Stobz]

Didn't they check anything before they printed Leviathan ??

 

[Captain Idaho]

The oddest thing about that is Vanguard didn't even need new weapons or stats. They already have convention for the weapons Vanguard have.

 

They've killed the unit and unless they get a substantial glow up in Codex Space Marines, no one will take them. Which is poetic I guess since Assault Marines look amazing.

 

My biggest beef is some things are just clearly not proof read. Or even playtested as if they were, the proof reading would have solved itself. Just using 1 weapon example; Grav pistols and guns being D1 or 2 depending on source, Grav guns not existing on some sheets and thus as an option that can't be used... then things like Assault Marines with special weapons technically not having any melee attacks because their sheet doesn't say they have any...

 

These are mistakes anyone can see quite clearly just reading the datasheets. They don't need massive playtesting to find, we found it just glancing at our favourite datasheets.

 

Which clearly means things weren't fully tested or proof read.

 

And since these are copies of datasheets, does that mean the hard copies are similarly incorrect? The things GW is planning on replacing in a couple months anyway and charging people for? And the replacements, are they even fixed?

[Maritn]

I know some people don't like some of the changes, but I really love the decisions and tradeoffs when it comes to selecting the characters to lead your squads. And no more Blobhammer.

I'm also big fan of the consolidation of the weapon profiles and the special rules each unit received. They all now have a role, and weapons wise you can now go for rule of cool much more often. If only I hadn't already built my two squads of Sword Brethren... 

[TrawlingCleaner]

44 minutes ago, Kallas said:

Yup, it really is inconsistent, and especially for things like Vanguard where stripping off their weapon options is obnoxious: they have a heap of options that are now completely different from every other instance in the Index where they have proper rules. Vanguard Thunder Hammers/Power Fists/Power Weapons are worse than regular Power Weapons (5/-1/1 vs 5/-2/1). Madness.

 

If they'd mirrored CSM Legionaires' Accursed Weapons profiles (+1 AP) and had PFists+THs as "Heavy Heirloom Weapons" I think it would've been a better pill to swallow.

 

It's quite odd as Chaos Terminators and Chosen also recieved this change but kept their Power Fists and Chainfists.

[Kallas]

4 minutes ago, TrawlingCleaner said:

If they'd mirrored CSM Legionaires' Accursed Weapons profiles (+1 AP) and had PFists+THs as "Heavy Heirloom Weapons" I think it would've been a better pill to swallow.

Right! They had the template and then just completely ignored it to make a mess. Having it be like Accursed Weapons and Heavy Melee Weapons for Vanguard would have been at least something, and if they'd made that a consistent change across the faction, which would have been in keeping with the changes to Tyranid options too, it would have been fine.

[Maritn]

And regarding Vanguard Vets: probably an unpopular opinion, but they needed to be toned down quite a bit. Being the best unit in the codex by quite a margin meant you were quite when you did not use 30 of them, because as long as tournament players willing to buy loads of them existed their performance distorted overall Space Marine performance, which lead to no fixes for other units (and yes, GWs unwillingness to try to fix SM internal and external balance (Stus infamous "git gud"))... It's hard to properly balance a unit with lots of movement that ignores all terrain (which should not be a mechanic that is in the game outside of actual aircraft, but that's a different topic), has invulnerable saves, the best melee weapons and can deep strike, even inside its own codex.

Edited June 12, 2023 by TrawlingCleaner
Removal of swear-dodge

[Kallas]

26 minutes ago, Maritn said:

lots of movement that ignores all terrain (which should not be a mechanic that is in the game outside of actual aircraft, but that's a different topic)

Well, they don't do that any more, since FLY is massively less effective in 10e.

 

26 minutes ago, Maritn said:

Vanguard Vets: probably an unpopular opinion, but they needed to be toned down quite a bit

Sure, but in classic GW style they hit them with the nerf bat and then pummeled them some more until they were 6ft under.

[Warden-Paints]

I think the problem with VV can be traced back to last edition when their weapons options were 'unlocked' allowing players to take storm shields and lightning claws. That doesn't fit with the new push for simplified rules. 

 

If they had always been locked into TH+SS, dual claws, or chainsword and bolt pistol I think they would have retained the option, the same as Assault Terminators. 

[DemonGSides]

Or, most likely, they're getting replaced.  Pretty obvious that GW's going for Jump pack troops next, they'll get updated data sheets to coincide with new kits that show bespoke weapons.

Hopefully.

[jaxom]

3 hours ago, Brother Christopher said:

particularly since I have a invested way too much time 'future proofing' my Vanguard Vets and I HATE USING MAGNETS.

*SNIP*

 

At the same time, w still have a gazillion pistol options. With some unit profiles we have extreme simplification, while others retain a weird level of granularity. The game design is all lover the place

 

2 hours ago, Kallas said:

Yup, it really is inconsistent, and especially for things like Vanguard where stripping off their weapon options is obnoxious: they have a heap of options that are now completely different from every other instance in the Index where they have proper rules. Vanguard Thunder Hammers/Power Fists/Power Weapons are worse than regular Power Weapons (5/-1/1 vs 5/-2/1). Madness.

 

When almost every list-building article for Space Marines starts with "get Vanguard Vets with Storm Shields and magnetize weapon options," there's something wrong in the design space. I do think the "heirloom weapons" overcompensated and changed my mind to agree that the inclusion of a heavy heirloom weapon for every 5 VV would have been okay. The Storm Shields are probably why the pistol options remained; who actually took pistols?

[ZeroWolf]

According to Valrak's sources the primaris jump pack troops have been done for a while but considering that the Desolation Marines have been sat on GWs shelves for 3+ years after being done, that's still no guarantee they won't be out till 11th edition.

 

I do still wonder if they were wanting them to tie into Space Marine 2

[Xenith]

Assault squad with hammer of wrath? average 5 free mortals on a 10 man unit is the strongest thing we've seen so far in 10th I think, that's before they even get to making attacks.