Dark Angels Index

[TrawlingCleaner]

For the Lion!

[m_r_parker]

First note / thing that will be FAQ'd: Deathwing Knights have the Inner Circle rule, which reduces damage from attacks by 1, but does not specify a minimum damage value of 1 so can effectively nullify weak attacks to damage zero. Going to find / check the core rules to see if there's something in the core rules around Damage not being able to be modified below 1.

[Orange Knight]

Are you sure that needs an FAQ? Perhaps GW want a few select units to be immune to damage 1 weapons.

[TempestBlade]

Sad panda: Ravenwing bikers are gone. I’m guessing they are saving it for the RW detachment in the codex but that’s a year out of having just normal bikers. 

[Jaipii]

I cannot imagine that GW would have decided it's a good rules mechanic to make some units totally immune to vast amount guns/units in the game. Like, if anything is a 'feel-bad' moment it would be this.

 

21 minutes ago, Orange Knight said:

Are you sure that needs an FAQ? Perhaps GW want a few select units to be immune to damage 1 weapons.

 

[Syphid]

No more Interrogator Chaplains?

[m_r_parker]

23 minutes ago, Orange Knight said:

Are you sure that needs an FAQ? Perhaps GW want a few select units to be immune to damage 1 weapons.

 

I'm fairly sure I haven't seen a single instance of a 40k or AoS unit that can blanket -1 Damage down to zero. I will admit I haven't seen every unit, so will be happy to be proven wrong on this.

 

But yes, I do believe this is a bit much. There are plenty of data sheets that have nothing but D1 weapons that are rendered completely useless, and a lot of other units that only have a couple of models that can get past D1 (Sergeants, specialist weapon teams, etc). Equally you then have D2 weapons cut in half in terms of effectiveness, and higher Damage weapons being less effected the higher their Damage gets. Then we put this onto a unit of T5 W4 Sv2+ / Inv4+ models .... nah, these are ludicrously durable even if you factor in lack of ranged weapons. 

[StormLion]

13 minutes ago, m_r_parker said:

 

I'm fairly sure I haven't seen a single instance of a 40k or AoS unit that can blanket -1 Damage down to zero. I will admit I haven't seen every unit, so will be happy to be proven wrong on this.

 

But yes, I do believe this is a bit much. There are plenty of data sheets that have nothing but D1 weapons that are rendered completely useless, and a lot of other units that only have a couple of models that can get past D1 (Sergeants, specialist weapon teams, etc). Equally you then have D2 weapons cut in half in terms of effectiveness, and higher Damage weapons being less effected the higher their Damage gets. Then we put this onto a unit of T5 W4 Sv2+ / Inv4+ models .... nah, these are ludicrously durable even if you factor in lack of ranged weapons. 

 

This is the most hotly debated topic right now. I just don't see how GW could mess up multiple units in multiple factions at this point.

[Grotsmasha]

 

 

Here => Index

 

I haven't looked into the nitty gritty of everything, but the one thing that I like is Belial's strike-back ability.

[Lord Marshal]

Somebody might want to, uhhh, check in on the Death Guard players.

[m_r_parker]

Just now, StormLion said:

 

This is the most hotly debated topic right now. I just don't see how GW could mess up multiple units in multiple factions at this point.

 

I haven't been keeping up to date with the flurry of data sheets coming out - are there others with this D(-1) effect? Which ones?

[StormLion]

3 minutes ago, m_r_parker said:

 

I haven't been keeping up to date with the flurry of data sheets coming out - are there others with this D(-1) effect? Which ones?

 

Redemptor, Storm Raven, Lamartes, and a Nid (don't remember the name). Maybe more that I missed.

[m_r_parker]

8 minutes ago, StormLion said:

 

Redemptor, Storm Raven, Lamartes, and a Nid (don't remember the name). Maybe more that I missed.

 

Well... 

 

Also, I couldn't resist.

 

 

 

 

Edited June 12, 2023 by m_r_parker

[SlipperyKarst]

A few units here and there have the ability is one thing. And most of those are like big monster/vehicle type units and makes sense why they can just shrug small arms fire (D1). But if Deathwing Terminators or even the Deathwing Knights, that would be a bit much. As you could just field an entire Army of Deathwing Knights and render half of other armies useless.

 

edit: I cant read

 

The Knights point cost is going to be stupid high. Back to not worth playing them.

Edited June 12, 2023 by SlipperyKarst

[Squark]

Ravenwing knights and command squads have OC2. That's... interesting.

[Commissar Yossarian]

Also fun, that for 1CP you can apply -1D to the Lion after the enemy charges him, on top of his -1W and 3++. 

 

I would be curious to see how many things can actually charge him and make it worth while.

[Rain]

7 minutes ago, m_r_parker said:

 

Well... 

 

Also, I couldn't resist.

 

 

 

 

 

[Tacitus]

He is a son of the Lion.  One thing I didn't like is they took away all his alternate builds - the TH/SS is now gone in addition to the 2LC version - and his bespoke really leans into the TH/SS version. 

 

Did you notice the Talonmaster is a leader with no Followers? 

 

The Deathwing Knights look like they took a step back like most of the "Veteran" squads.  Their S8 weapons last edition are S6 now. 

 

Both of the aircraft are pretty interesting.

[The Spitehorde]

11 minutes ago, SlipperyKarst said:

As you could just field an entire Army of Deathwing Knights and render half of other armies useless.

 

No can do. According the freebie PDF rules (page 56) you can have a maximum of three of each type of unit unless they have the Battleline keyword (of which you can take 6). Deathwing Knights don't have that keyword.

Edited June 12, 2023 by The Spitehorde
Edited to add page number.

[SlipperyKarst]

4 minutes ago, The Spitehorde said:

 

No can do. According the freebie PDF rules (page 56) you can have a maximum of three of each type of unit unless they have the Battleline keyword (of which you can take 6). Deathwing Knights don't have that keyword.

 

Good catch. I'm still getting used to the new system and didnt read that correctly. Crazy strong, but that likely means their points cost will be crazy prohibitive. Shame because I really love the models.

[Progenitor]

Also, for all the cool rules for DWK, they'll look horrifically out of scale to the new Terminators too! I did notice the lack of Interrogator-Chaplains outside of Asmodai, I was interested to see what rules they'd have compared to the regular Chaplains. 

[Commissar Yossarian]

Also I am excited to see a Captain and Terminator Ancient leading a full DW Command Squad with a heaven fall blade (optional) and pennant of remembrance. There is no kill quite like overkill.

 

Re-roll 8" DS charges will be bad enough, but also having -1D if charged, 6+++/4+++(against mortals, watcher in the dark), return a slain model a turn, 2+/4++, OC3 at all times, and just making it worse for yourself should you make them battle shocked seems slightly unbalanced.

 

I'm not sure if there is anything shown so far that can deliver the 41+ wounds necessary to chew through that nightmare. Ignoring returned models, and assuming you keep the -1D up all the time, that requires a minimum of 49.2 damage past their save for D1 weapons, or 98.4 for multi damage weapons. I am not sure if its even possible to avoid charging them since they can fall back and shoot/charge, plus heroically intervene. 

 

Trying to shoot them off the board seems like a poor choice since a pair of Belicose Volcano Cannons only get 2D3+6+4(blast) shots for a maximum of 16. 9 wounds, and 4 dead termies. That's less than half the squad.

Going with the Macro Blasters > 60 Shots > 50 Hits > 33 Wounds > 16.6 failed saves which if you are willing to slow roll averages 3 failed saves to kill 2 models (3 wounds each) with a 6+++. This would pick up 11 of them on average dice, so only the captain would remain, but still not enough to average all 12 of them.

 

Gross

 

 

[Zeruel]

34 minutes ago, Tacitus said:

The Deathwing Knights look like they took a step back like most of the "Veteran" squads.  Their S8 weapons last edition are S6 now. 

 

Maybe offensively, but defensively they will be a nightmare to deal with. They aren't anti-everything on the charge anymore but still more than a match for pretty much any infantry unit in the game and my god they will be almost impossible to shift for most units.

[Syphid]

If I'm reading this correctly,  a Heavenfall Blade increases the damage of all melee weapons and doesn't replace any weapon? So it can just flat upgrade a Chainfist or Thunder Hammer or Lightning Claws or Mace of Absolution?

[CCE1981]

Deathwing Command Squads can be OC 3.