Dark Angels Index

[Rain]

Going to be funny when Dark Angels are tankier than Death Guard and killier than World Eaters. I guess the sophomoric fanfic that passes for DA Heresy lore is onto something after all 

[Grimdark_Garage]

Can anyone help in how I field my plasma company vets? 

[War of the Eagle]

28 minutes ago, Syphid said:

If I'm reading this correctly,  a Heavenfall Blade increases the damage of all melee weapons and doesn't replace any weapon? So it can just flat upgrade a Chainfist or Thunder Hammer or Lightning Claws or Mace of Absolution?

 

Yup, your not attacking with it. Just really inspired by it lol.

[ChargingSoll]

Am I reading it right that if somebody hits belial with 6 melee attacks he on average does 5 mortal wounds back them them. Even if it kills him, not bad for a guy who got mulched by angron

[G8Keeper]

Some interesting stuff, Darkshroud useful again now it gives Stealth, Monster and Vehicle hunting Black Knights and Asmodai potentially being useful by forcing battle shock tests against characters to name but 3.

[SlipperyKarst]

1 hour ago, Progenitor said:

Also, for all the cool rules for DWK, they'll look horrifically out of scale to the new Terminators too! I did notice the lack of Interrogator-Chaplains outside of Asmodai, I was interested to see what rules they'd have compared to the regular Chaplains. 

Going to be interesting to see how they handle it in the Combat Patrol box. Will likely get a definitive answer if it was an oversight or if they are folding Interigator-Chaps in with regular.

 

Lore wise I can see the Lion getting rid of a lot of that.

[m_r_parker]

21 minutes ago, ChargingSoll said:

Am I reading it right that if somebody hits belial with 6 melee attacks he on average does 5 mortal wounds back them them. Even if it kills him, not bad for a guy who got mulched by angron

 

Pretty much, as I'm reading it you get to 'bounce' up to 6 attacks per attacking unit back as Mortal Wounds. Based on the wording you set aside these dice when attacks are allocated to Belial, which is before any saving throws (regular or invulnerable) are taken. So you can have 6 attacks allocated to him, pass 5 saving throws letting only a single attack through, and still bounce back 6 attacks on a 2+. (Unless I've read that wrong)

Edited June 12, 2023 by m_r_parker

[Emperor Ming]

2 hours ago, Orange Knight said:

Are you sure that needs an FAQ? Perhaps GW want a few select units to be immune to damage 1 weapons.

Yes, lets not start a new edition with damage ignoring nonsense

[Brother-Chaplain Kage]

1 hour ago, Progenitor said:

Also, for all the cool rules for DWK, they'll look horrifically out of scale to the new Terminators too! I did notice the lack of Interrogator-Chaplains outside of Asmodai, I was interested to see what rules they'd have compared to the regular Chaplains. 

 

The Lion accepted all the Fallen back into the chapter if they didn't actually turn to chaos. Gets rid of the whole need of Interrogator Chaplains from the lore, and retires the short marine minis at the same time.

 

Edited June 12, 2023 by Brother-Chaplain Kage

[Orange Knight]

So, after reading this Index...

 

Dark Angels are so, so strong. The units they have and the combinations of rules are just powerful and scary.

 

I haven't looked over the Black Templars yet, but so far the DA are easily to strongest chapter by a margin.

[TrawlingCleaner]

 

 

 

 

Seems like a fun unit to fight...

[m_r_parker]

10 minutes ago, Brother-Chaplain Kage said:

 

The Lion accepted all the Fallen back into the chapter if they didn't actually turn to chaos. Gets rid of the whole need of Interrogator Chaplains from the lore, and retires the short marine minis at the same time.

 

 

Highlighted the important section from your post. There are still chaos-aligned Fallen out there, and regarding those I would assume the defacto modus-operandi for the Ravenwing / Deathwing / Inner Circle still remains the same, so still a need for Interrogators and their like.

But this isn't the topic for this discussion really.

[StormLion]

1 hour ago, Syphid said:

If I'm reading this correctly,  a Heavenfall Blade increases the damage of all melee weapons and doesn't replace any weapon? So it can just flat upgrade a Chainfist or Thunder Hammer or Lightning Claws or Mace of Absolution?

 

A Gravis captain sounds appealing.

[Brother-Chaplain Kage]

4 minutes ago, m_r_parker said:

 

Highlighted the important section from your post. There are still chaos-aligned Fallen out there, and regarding those I would assume the defacto modus-operandi for the Ravenwing / Deathwing / Inner Circle still remains the same, so still a need for Interrogators and their like.

But this isn't the topic for this discussion really.

 

In the context of them not being in the Index and why only Azrael appears. The lore is a different topic, yes. The models are going away though. GW is finally beginning the first steps of culling all the firstborn from the game.

[Lord Marshal]

There's a White Dwarf short of an Interrogator-Chaplain having an existential crisis when Johnny releases one of the Fallen he's been questioning. Seems they still deal with the Fallen, it's just if they've hauled in one who's willing to repent/serve with Johnny they get recruited rather than executed but are otherwise dealt with as before.

 

Edited June 12, 2023 by Lord Marshal

[SlipperyKarst]

26 minutes ago, Orange Knight said:

So, after reading this Index...

 

Dark Angels are so, so strong. The units they have and the combinations of rules are just powerful and scary.

 

I haven't looked over the Black Templars yet, but so far the DA are easily to strongest chapter by a margin.

 

I think if they repeat the whole war gear is free, then yeah Dark Angels are going to continue being a very strong elite army.

[Guest]

3 minutes ago, Lord Marshal said:

There's a White Dwarf short of an Interrogator-Chaplain having an existential crisis when Johnny releases one of the Fallen he's been questioning. Seems they still deal with the Fallen, it's just if they've hauled in one who's willing to repent/serve with Johnny they get recruited rather than executed but are otherwise dealt with as before.

 

Which WD is it in?

[crimsondave]

35 minutes ago, m_r_parker said:

 

Highlighted the important section from your post. There are still chaos-aligned Fallen out there, and regarding those I would assume the defacto modus-operandi for the Ravenwing / Deathwing / Inner Circle still remains the same, so still a need for Interrogators and their like.

But this isn't the topic for this discussion really.

There is still no reason for ICs because Lion told them he and he alone will pass judgement on Fallen.

[Lord Marshal]

20 minutes ago, Brother Captain Arkley said:

Which WD is it in?

 

488.

 

Quote

 

Extract from the personal illuminated records of Interrogator-Chaplain Thakariel
 

My meditations are disturbed, my thoughts disordered, for I have experienced a visitation from the Primarch himself. It can have been no other. Only the Lion could have so affected my being by his mere presence.
 

It happened during my interrogation of subject XXI. It was the seventeenth day-cycle, and I was preparing to halt the sensoria bombardmenta and neuro-excruciation that I had left him enduring, in favour of direct application of the Canticles of Questioning. It is a sudden switch that proves bard for even a post-human psyche to adjust to. I credit the technique with two of the three black pearls I have earned to date.
 

Yet a great cowled figure met me at the cell door before I could enter and placed one hand, gentle but firm, against my chest plate. He spoke no words, but I knew his intent as surely as if it had been a battlefield order. Remain without. Wait.
 

And so I did, for more than an hour, until the door cycled open again to reveal an empty chamber. There was no other way in or out of that cell, but I would swear upon all the oaths I have taken to my Chapter that none passed me during my vigil.
 

A part of me rails at this. Yes, even though it was my own mighty gene-sire who took my subject XXI from me. He might have been my fourth black pearl. Another part quails in a way I find alien and disturbing, for I was as certain of that heretic's guilt as ever I have been in my other interrogations, yet the Lion did not hand him back as I have heard tell happen during other such... interventions.
 

What, then, if subject XXI was innocent of the charges I sought his confession for? Have I been mistaken in the past? Have we, as a Chapter, made such errors? I cannot believe that, for I sense a precipice in such thoughts over which I dare not step. I must trust, in the Lion, in the Emperor, in the Supreme Grand Master, in the teachings of the Inner Circle. That is all that any of us can do in times such as these.

 

 

[Gorechilde]

3 hours ago, m_r_parker said:

 

I'm fairly sure I haven't seen a single instance of a 40k or AoS unit that can blanket -1 Damage down to zero. I will admit I haven't seen every unit, so will be happy to be proven wrong on this.

 

But yes, I do believe this is a bit much. There are plenty of data sheets that have nothing but D1 weapons that are rendered completely useless, and a lot of other units that only have a couple of models that can get past D1 (Sergeants, specialist weapon teams, etc). Equally you then have D2 weapons cut in half in terms of effectiveness, and higher Damage weapons being less effected the higher their Damage gets. Then we put this onto a unit of T5 W4 Sv2+ / Inv4+ models .... nah, these are ludicrously durable even if you factor in lack of ranged weapons. 

 

I seem to recall Thousand Sons cult marines  being immune to every weapon below strength 5 back in 3rd and 4th Editions. Possibly 5th too.

[Gorechilde]

2 hours ago, Progenitor said:

Also, for all the cool rules for DWK, they'll look horrifically out of scale to the new Terminators too! I did notice the lack of Interrogator-Chaplains outside of Asmodai, I was interested to see what rules they'd have compared to the regular Chaplains. 

 

They don't need Interrogator-Chaplains anymore. The plain Chaplains are fine now that the Lion is back 

[Rain]

3 minutes ago, Gorechilde said:

 

I seem to recall Thousand Sons cult marines  being immune to every weapon below strength 5 back in 3rd and 4th Editions. Possibly 5th too.

 

This was only a thing in the original 3rd edition Chaos codex, and it was only against shooting attacks IIRC. The 3.5 ed codex gave them +1 wound each and an invulnerable save, and that became their thing afterward. But even under the original 3rd ed rules, you could just charge them and beat them up in melee. They were god awful in melee, and would lose to units that cost far fewer points.

[Karhedron]

A big Deathwing Command squad is going to be harder to shift than curry stains on a white shirt. Put a couple of TH/SS guys in there for 4W and use them to tank hits. Then when the Apothecary resurrects them, even more value from the revival. Chuck in a Leader like Belial for extra killiness and march/teleport them into the midfield.

[Prot]

Did the Darkshroud not give -1 to hit before?

 

Azrael came out good. He's a natural for a lot of builds.

 

The strats look really good.

 

The flyers do look interesting but that no movement shooting ability, and their lack of toughness.... I just have a feeling they will be a very high priority

 

Belial I'm not too sure about. His ability reads funny to me:

Strikes of Retribution: Each time a melee attack is allocated to this model, after the attacking model’s unit has finished making its attacks, roll one D6 (to a maximum of six D6 per attacking unit): for each 2+, the attacking unit suffers 1 mortal wound. 

 

So what dictates how many D6 I would roll after Belial is attacked? The amount of hits he took? the amount of units attacking him? the amount of models in the unit that attacked him?

 

Belial's sword seems turned down a lot if I recall. His leadership ability to the squad is what I'm not sure about though. It seems like a long shot, and is basically geared towards character hunting. It makes sense, but I don't know if I'd use this compared to other leadership abilities???

 

Sammael on the other hand looks very good to me. Leading the right unit this could be a really strong option for early board control and catching opponents off guard on bad deployment/missmatches. 

 

The Talon Master is probably off my most used list.

 

I still really like the larger Deathwing Command squad. Apothecary + Banner  + Champion makes it almost 'deathstar' like... We'll see I guess but I like the idea of battle shock working with some strats (making them better) + OC being a minimum of 2 per model.  Combing that with the Reduction of Damage to '1'. This could be a real pain to get rid of. Just theorizing though.... so I could be way off.

 

I actually really like both the Shroud and Vengeance speeders.

 

 

[ValourousHeart]

Some key details seem to be missing for Ravenwing units.

• If we use the traditional Ravenwing units (Bike, Attack Bike, Outrider, Invader and various Land Speeders) from the Space Marine Index, do those units get the 5+ invulnerable save that the Ravenwing units from the Dark Angels Index get?
• It might be better to create separate datasheets for these units, so that the points can be more accurately balanced to account for the inclusion of that 5+ Invulnerable save.
• While most marine players don't tend to have many Land Speeders in their collections, Dark Angels players tend to have quite a few.  That makes the limit on Land Speeders to units of 1 a real hardship for Ravenwing players.  Hoping they can bring back the squadrons.