Dark Angels Index

[Gorechilde]

1 hour ago, m_r_parker said:

 

Highlighted the important section from your post. There are still chaos-aligned Fallen out there, and regarding those I would assume the defacto modus-operandi for the Ravenwing / Deathwing / Inner Circle still remains the same, so still a need for Interrogators and their like.

But this isn't the topic for this discussion really.

 

The novel and the WD article give the impression that the Lion has taken on that duty personally.  The part where he stole a prisoner from one of his own Chaplains was quite humorous. 

[Isual]

So our enhancements and some Stratagems profit from being battle shocked... I don't understand the wisdom behind this decision. 

[Gorechilde]

15 minutes ago, Rain said:

 

This was only a thing in the original 3rd edition Chaos codex, and it was only against shooting attacks IIRC. The 3.5 ed codex gave them +1 wound each and an invulnerable save, and that became their thing afterward. But even under the original 3rd ed rules, you could just charge them and beat them up in melee. They were god awful in melee, and would lose to units that cost far fewer points.

 

The good players would melee screen with nurglings. That was also the era of the mandatory chaplain on a bike for SM or sorcerer on a bike for CSM. 

[SlipperyKarst]

21 minutes ago, Gorechilde said:

 

They don't need Interrogator-Chaplains anymore. The plain Chaplains are fine now that the Lion is back 

This. I saw a comment that was talking about how they still have the mission of the fallen despite the Lion returning. But in reality the fallen either receive forgiveness or death from the Lion now. I imagine that oaths can be sworn in the field as well (even if the Lion isnt there).

 

The main reason they were so hell bent on the fallen and their shame was largely to protect themselves from the Inquisition. Now that the Lion has come back, partially taken some blame for the events that transpired. That's going to be that. The Inquisition cannot stand against the Lion (not and expect to survive).

Edited June 12, 2023 by SlipperyKarst

[cubertious]

I noticed no more interrogator chaplains and no more company vets. Anything else get axed?

[FerociousBeast]

Bug in the index: If you give the Strikemaster a storm shield and storm bolter, it cannot make any melee attacks per the new Fight rules. 
 

The Battle shocked focus of the detachment seems super devious to me. Units are going to be battle-shocked quite often now, and some entire armies focus on forcing battle shock tests (Tyranids) and the Dark Angels almost want to be battle shocked. Nasty. 

[G8Keeper]

1 hour ago, Prot said:

Did the Darkshroud not give -1 to hit before?

 

Azrael came out good. He's a natural for a lot of builds.

 

The strats look really good.

 

The flyers do look interesting but that no movement shooting ability, and their lack of toughness.... I just have a feeling they will be a very high priority

 

Belial I'm not too sure about. His ability reads funny to me:

Strikes of Retribution: Each time a melee attack is allocated to this model, after the attacking model’s unit has finished making its attacks, roll one D6 (to a maximum of six D6 per attacking unit): for each 2+, the attacking unit suffers 1 mortal wound. 

 

So what dictates how many D6 I would roll after Belial is attacked? The amount of hits he took? the amount of units attacking him? the amount of models in the unit that attacked him?

 

Yes the darkshroud did, it now gives a cover save too, forgot to add that in.

 

Belial almost welcomes anything with precision allocating hits against him in combat..heres a mortal wound back 5/6 of the time.

 

As Valorous Heart notes above, we don't get land speeder squadrons, which hurts a little, nor do normal RW get the inv. saves.

 

 

[Bouargh]

Darkshroud giving Stealth to  units nearby but not having this capacity for itself is a little bit puzzeling.

Talon master not able to lead Speeder units too.

Not being able to redeploy termies is also a big of an oddity - makes them feel "different" from the ones from the SM_Index, but I understand that, as tehre are no limitations or exclusions, you can still field mundane Termies in a DA detachment...

 

Sure we have some oddities, such as the way Apothecaries work in different fashion depending if of the case - Deathwing command squad Apothecary resurection caopacity is huge but a so different of over flavours gicing Feel no Pain for example. I terms of streamlining, well, we have seen more cosistent. But, hey, not so dramatic neither (as the sol-called streamlining results in gifting every single unit with a special rule, one more/one less is not a big deal.

 

Overwise the rest of the things looks rather OK. A bemol on Stratgems - I really miss the teleport synergies between Ravenwing and Deathwing... 

[tinpact]

Fliers look interesting. The Darkshroud giving stealth is a neat ability, and the Dark Talon looks pretty solid.

 

The synergies between their unit abilities and their detachment rule are looking pretty great.

 

Also, sort of worth noting - there's no restriction on taking VanVets anymore.

[Cpt. Bannockburn]

Inner Circle on the knights seems incredibly broken as it is written, or am I missing something?

Flat reduction of 1D, no mention of minimum damage? Same thing for Duty Eternal on the Redemptor?

 

Other than that, Ezekiel sounds like an absolute blast to take.

[Commissar Yossarian]

At first pass, the DW may be better if their points aren't too high, but otherwise (and points being not too extreme in either direction) the DA index looks by far the strongest of all the marines previewed.

 

No unit restrictions, good stratagems and enhancements. Azrael and the Lion look great. The have amazing unique units and unless their points costs are punishingly high they seem like they can excel at out killing, out lasting and outscoring. They have good mobility options too, and if aircraft become oppressive they seem to have decent options there too (though its too early to tell).

 

Maybe some elf  will rear its ugly head, but I am hopeful that the DA list has decent point costs and good well rounded play that is strong.

[Orange Knight]

So... the Deathwing Knights can get -2 damage?  As can the Lion?

 

I think the unique units and characters are too strong compared to everything we've seen in other armies so far.

 

I don't think anything can take the Lion down in a reasonable way. It would take a vast point and unit expenditure to remove him from play, and he isn't limited by deployment as he can deep strike.

Azrael is really solid, probably a bit better than Helbrecht, Calgar and Dante - the other chapter masters of note. 

 

The other unique units also offer some really potent play and Tactical options, and the Dark Angels lose nothing in using them, and sacrifice no other options from the generic unit list.

 

 

[Marshal Mittens]

Dark angels seem really good, though honestly BT and BA look pretty good too.

 

It seems DW are still going to be tough as nails, even losing mini transhuman. The unique stuff makes me excited for the codex. 

[Interrogator Stobz]

As well as no more Interrogators (seems I'm redundant lolz), there are no more Company Veterans?

 

Do we VV and SG instead ?

 

 

[jaxom]

6 hours ago, Grimdark_Garage said:

Can anyone help in how I field my plasma company vets? 

Two options that I can see. 1) Redistribute them with other models to make multiple Command Squads, or 2) They're now Hellblasters, you just can't see the Tacticus armor under the robes.

[crimsondave]

3 minutes ago, Interrogator Stobz said:

As well as no more Interrogators (seems I'm redundant lolz), there are no more Company Veterans?

 

Do we VV and SG instead ?

 

 

I believe so, yes.

[Blindhamster]

44 minutes ago, Orange Knight said:

So... the Deathwing Knights can get -2 damage?  As can the Lion?

Suspect an FAQ or similar will make it clear that:

1. you cant reduce damage to 0
2. you cant stack - damage effects

45 minutes ago, Orange Knight said:

Azrael is really solid, probably a bit better than Helbrecht, Calgar and Dante - the other chapter masters of note. 

I dunno, depends what you mean by better. Calgar is equally as good at generating CP, calgar is equally as tough baseline, and is tougher thanks to Victrix guard as his FNP4+ isn't once per game. Calgars fists don't do mortals, but are otherwise better than the sword of secrets. They have the same speed and attacks. I'd say both Helbrecht and Dante are more killy than Azrael too, and if you assume each of them are leading their ideal units, Sanguinary guard are probably a little better than the options the other chapter masters get (in no small part because Dante makes his unit hit on 2s for both ranged and melee, and the sanguinary guard make all melee attacks 1 worse to hit and 1 worse to wound. Helbrecht is an utter beast and crusaders and sword brethren are both utterly amazing too.

 

That said, I'd agree that Dark Angels are probably strongest still overall, Templars perhaps in joint 1st place.

[Syphid]

I, for one, am looking forward to attaching a Terminator Ancient to a Deathwing Command Squad with Ancient for +2 OC shenanigans.

[Grotsmasha]

5 hours ago, Prot said:

Strikes of Retribution: Each time a melee attack is allocated to this model, after the attacking model’s unit has finished making its attacks, roll one D6 (to a maximum of six D6 per attacking unit): for each 2+, the attacking unit suffers 1 mortal wound. 

 

So what dictates how many D6 I would roll after Belial is attacked? The amount of hits he took? the amount of units attacking him? the amount of models in the unit that attacked him?

 

I read it as, 1 D6 per wound allocated up to six. So Even if Belial isn't damaged, just targeting him guarantee's reprisal.

[bigtrouble]

4 hours ago, Interrogator Stobz said:

As well as no more Interrogators (seems I'm redundant lolz), there are no more Company Veterans?

 

Do we VV and SG instead ?

 

 

I think that makes the most sense model-wise. Though it’s now just hilarious that I fully magnetized a bunch of arms for nothing. Hopefully the points on a shield and hammer are decent.

 

EDIT: just realized the hammer only available to company vets as command squad, so I guess I’ll only get the 2 hammers.

Edited June 13, 2023 by bigtrouble

[ValourousHeart]

6 hours ago, Isual said:

So our enhancements and some Stratagems profit from being battle shocked... I don't understand the wisdom behind this decision. 

 

Dark Angels are turning into the Battle Shocked themed hard counter.  Battle Shock is going to mean a lot in 10th, and because of that people are going to go all in on forcing that mechanic.  We are the balance to that idea.

 

5 hours ago, FerociousBeast said:

Bug in the index: If you give the Strikemaster a storm shield and storm bolter, it cannot make any melee attacks per the new Fight rules. 

 

Since the shield only gives +1W why would you build this model with Storm Bolter and Storm Shield?  Every squad he can attach to, you are going to want to go into combat?  I'm not saying you are wrong... just that you are doing something no one would do, just to find a flaw.

 

4 hours ago, Bouargh said:

Darkshroud giving Stealth to  units nearby but not having this capacity for itself is a little bit puzzeling.

 

Why wouldn't the Darkshroud give itself Stealth?  Rule requires a friendly Adeptus Astartes unit within 6".  The Darkshroud has the Adeptus Astartes faction keyword.  It also gets the benefit of cover.

 

3 hours ago, Cpt. Bannockburn said:

Inner Circle on the knights seems incredibly broken as it is written, or am I missing something?

Flat reduction of 1D, no mention of minimum damage? Same thing for Duty Eternal on the Redemptor?

 

I swear I have this conversation with someone every time this rule pops up in the rules.  It never ends up working that way.

[spessmarine]

11 hours ago, StormLion said:

 

This is the most hotly debated topic right now. I just don't see how GW could mess up multiple units in multiple factions at this point.

 

What's immune to small arms fire? Big tanks? Nah, draw units out of a hat.

[Helias_Tancred]

7 hours ago, cubertious said:

I noticed no more interrogator chaplains and no more company vets. Anything else get axed?

 

So are they going to retcon how Dark Angel battle companies have a company veteran squad?

 

 

[bigtrouble]

Company Command Squad appears to be the only access to veteran loadouts. The command squad with the apothecary and a few shields could be good, points pending.

[bigtrouble]

I am saddened by the interrogator chaplain going away, but it's not necessarily a bad thing to move the chapter identity into a more positive direction.