Wh40k 10th Edition Chaos Space Marines Index

[Iron Father Ferrum]

First impression is positive!  It'll take a little study to pull out the stuff I really like but yeah.  I can already see a few units & combos I want to use.

[Colman]

Dumb question: nothing in the rules prevents me including both chaos demons and a dread blade in a CSM army, does it? 

[Focslain]

7 minutes ago, Colman said:

Dumb question: nothing in the rules prevents me including both chaos demons and a dread blade in a CSM army, does it? 

Doesn't look like it, outside of the resistrictions on unit selction (dreadblade) or points (Daemons).

[Sarges]

Ok, so you can use Skinshift and resurrect one Tzeentch Obiterator with full wounds (5) and heal 3 more wounds from another for 1CP, sounds fun.

[apologist]

The combination of the flexible new army building rules and (if I've understood things correctly) the ability for Beastmen, Cultists etc. to get and benefit from marks means a Lost and the Damned-style army is on the table as a possiblity again :)

[Iron Father Ferrum]

It's been an hour and I'm still shaking my head ruefully at the thought of Cultists having sticky objectives.

[TrawlingCleaner]

Just now, Iron Father Ferrum said:

It's been an hour and I'm still shaking my head ruefully at the thought of Cultists having sticky objectives.

Cultists always gave me functionally sticky objectives, they never left my home objectives! 

 

Something that made me scratch my head is the lack of Legends units. Are SM the only ones that get their Legends units back in the Index?

I guess we can run Harken as a generic Jumppack lord, he's not got Black Legion keyword but is locked to one per army, he's much better than he used to be too!

 

There's a couple of icky interactions I'm not wholly happy with, the Tzeentch relic requires you to pass a Dark Pact test (LD test) then take a LD test to get 1CP. Dark Destiny on Abaddon needs you to make a Dark Pact test, then on a 2+ you gain 1CP.

Both are a bit clunky for my liking

No Firing Deck on the Rhinos is quite funny 

 

 

[acrozatarim]

I'm trying to get my head fully round the implications of the Marks in this detachment. They come in four layers - the Marks themselves, the Stratagems, and the Enhancements, and finally how this all interacts with the specific units.

 

For the Marks themselves, I'd rate MoS over MoK for melee, and MoN over MoT for ranged, on the basis that Sustained Hits is generally better than Lethal Hits. That said, the Undivided Mark may be the dark horse here, as it works for both melee and shooting and, while not as good as Sustained Hits by itself, does raise reliability.

 

Stratagems are a mixed bag here. I don't think Eternal Hatred is worth taking the MoK just to get the +1 to the Fight on Death roll, nice as it is. Unnatural Swiftness is worth taking the MoS for, but Chosen can already advance and charge, so MoK or Undivided push back as superior choices there, I think. MoT is great for Obliterators, who can work with Lethal Hits even if they'd prefer Sustained Hits, and for whom the healing and getting back a whole model is amazing. It could even work for Possessed - yes, the Dark Pact benefit sucks because they don't have ranged attacks, but the old Pact of Flesh in 9e was amazing for a reason, and pulling back 3W T6 Possessed to creep ever closer to the enemy is amazing. Dark Obscuration is pretty good anyway for MoN but might be key in protecting units from godawful combo set-ups like the loyalist Primaris speeder nonsense.

Then there's Profane Zeal, full rerolls on hit and wound for Undivided. I guess it'll depend on exactly how the numbers crunch, but this looks legitimately good enough as a justification for Undivided in and of itself.

 

For the Enhancements, Talisman of Burning Blood is pretty great for a Khorne Lord Discordant or Daemon Prince, where even just the +1 extra strength pushes them up over some key break points (Lance on the Khorne Discordant means they wound a T12 heavy tank on a 4+ in melee rather than a 5+, which is not nothing). Eye of Tzeentch is... tricky because you need the same mark on the character and the unit they lead, and Dark Pacting by yourself on some little foot character is living pretty dangerously. You could stick it on a Warpsmith in a unit of Havocs but the Havocs themselves get absolutely nothing out of the Warpsmith in their unit, and again would probably prefer to be Undivided or Slaanesh. There might be mileage in finding whoever the cheapest character is, slapping this on them in a little 5 man unit of legionaries with bolters, a heavy weapon, and an Icon, and just scudding around in relative safety popping shots at things and soaking up the bonus CP - but it might just be too many points for the benefit. The Orb of Unlife... just seems to suck, and sadly isn't an argument for the MoN at all. The Intoxicating Elixir is an argument for the MoS just for the 5+ FNP alone. Finally, the Liber Hereticus is good, although you can already get its benefits through a Helbrute. If it's cheap points-wise, worth taking though.

[Volgon]

Strange that the Chaos Lord now has options for Accursed Weapons and Power Fist. I wonder if that's indicative of a new kit incoming (GW did say every army they previewed on the roadmap was getting new stuff) or just equalizing options with a loyalist Captain.

[Mallios]

57 minutes ago, Sarges said:

Ok, so you can use Skinshift and resurrect one Tzeentch Obiterator with full wounds (5) and heal 3 more wounds from another for 1CP, sounds fun.

Also that mark makes their shooting better when they make a dark pact

[Iron Father Ferrum]

6 minutes ago, Volgon said:

Strange that the Chaos Lord now has options for Accursed Weapons and Power Fist. I wonder if that's indicative of a new kit incoming (GW did say every army they previewed on the roadmap was getting new stuff) or just equalizing options with a loyalist Captain.

 

It's a combination of the switch back to pre-6th Edition "power weapons" being generic (and Chaos having "accursed" rather than "power") and the fact that people have so many kitbashed Lords that if they tried to restrict the Lord loadout to just the clampack dude with the hammer then the world will explode.

[Volgon]

3 minutes ago, Iron Father Ferrum said:

 

It's a combination of the switch back to pre-6th Edition "power weapons" being generic (and Chaos having "accursed" rather than "power") and the fact that people have so many kitbashed Lords that if they tried to restrict the Lord loadout to just the clampack dude with the hammer then the world will explode.

 

Yep, and going back and looking at the 9th datasheet, I had completely forgotten that Lords even had the option of taking a regular power weapon or power fist. The thunder hammer always seemed like the best choice so I guess I blanked on the rest of them!

[Ezekyle_Abaddon]

Attaching both a lord and exalted champion to an undivided 10-man squad of chosen looks fierce.

 

They would be the ideal target for a free "Profaned Zeal"

[Kaiju Soze]

So Cypher lost some of his tricks, but instead just shoots All of the Things, All of the Time? (At least within 12")

[Nephaston]

2 hours ago, TrawlingCleaner said:

Something that made me scratch my head is the lack of Legends units. Are SM the only ones that get their Legends units back in the Index?

Basic contemptors and relic terminators are not an index option that was returned but rather a regular option.

 

In other news, am I reading this right? I can finally has undivided princes?

[acrozatarim]

I've seen people feeling a bit down on the Lord Discordant, and not unreasonably so, but it's worth pointing out that the Talisman of Burning Blood goes really nicely on him, because the +d3 Strength and Attacks goes on every melee weapon and he has 2 Extra Attacks weapons along with his glaive - including the Anti-Vehicle 2+ techno-virus injector - so it can crank up his melee output by up to 9 extra attacks if you get lucky.

[danodan123]

1 hour ago, Nephaston said:

Basic contemptors and relic terminators are not an index option that was returned but rather a regular option.

 

In other news, am I reading this right? I can finally has undivided princes?

It doesn't seem to gimp you if you do indeed play as undivided which is great

[danodan123]

I quite like what they've done with the dark apostle and his disciples, he just self destruction them in melee, be cool if he could do that with regular cultists when he's in that unit, very thematic.

[Guzzlrr]

I'm quite liking the index obviously no points yet so still could be horrendous however atm everything seems awesome I think A dakka nurgle hellbrute to confer 5+ Critical hits to both lethal and sustained hits to marked units doing dark pacts is so powerful.

Combined with Abaddon reroll fishing can be insanely powerful.

 

I'm really excited.

Edited June 13, 2023 by Guzzlrr

[Arikel]

No arbitrary restrictions on cultists looks very good. With my dark vengeance, ashes of faith and imperium bonus chaos guys in my shame pile, I could put together a little cult with a small core of chaos marines and a swarm of cultists surrounding them. Since everyone gets a mark you can even theme the army around a god without requiring to play one of the subfactions. 
 

The lack of generic lords, sorcerers and apostles on bikes or with jetpacks is disappointing. With their return in the sm index was hoping chaos would get some of that as well.

[Orange Knight]

I didn't think I would be saying this so soon, but it looks like Abaddon is stronger than both Guilliman and the Lion.

 

Those Marks of Chaos make all the difference, and Abaddon gets to use all their bonuses simultaneously when they activate as he has all the keywords.

 

If I'm reading this right, he can also prevent himself and the unit he joins from being targeted outside of 12" using the Dark Obscuration stratagem.

[Guzzlrr]

31 minutes ago, Orange Knight said:

I didn't think I would be saying this so soon, but it looks like Abaddon is stronger than both Guilliman and the Lion.

 

Those Marks of Chaos make all the difference, and Abaddon gets to use all their bonuses simultaneously when they activate as he has all the keywords.

 

If I'm reading this right, he can also prevent himself and the unit he joins from being targeted outside of 12" using the Dark Obscuration stratagem.

 

It does I believe Abaddon is still super baller

[Redsun]

Infernal rites is basically armour of contempt, but costs 2cp instead of 1cp...

[Emicus]

Bile + exalted + chosen

 

The end. Of all things.

[Toldavf]

Still no jump lord which is sad times, then again a lord leading chosen can have full rerolls for free all game and advance and charge. 

Accursed cultists led by a dark commune look potentially terrifying. 

 

The enhancements are a bit limited which understandable but bleh. 

Honestly it feels like a lazy port of our 9th edition book, I wasn't expecting it to fix anything but the strong units remain so.

Forge fiends are going to ruin people with their 3 blast weapons.