New Space Marines

[Sea Creature]

33 minutes ago, Captain Idaho said:

I feel Assault Intercessors with Jump Packs directly undermines more than a few Primaris units. Reivers are pointless anyway, but Assault Intercessors will be as often seen as Firstborn Assault Marines without jump packs.

 

Still, GW have over saturated Marines recently.

It depends on what they’re armed with.

[Blindhamster]

35 minutes ago, Captain Idaho said:

I feel Assault Intercessors with Jump Packs directly undermines more than a few Primaris units. Reivers are pointless anyway, but Assault Intercessors will be as often seen as Firstborn Assault Marines without jump packs.

 

Still, GW have over saturated Marines recently.

no moreso than assault marines already undermine assault intercessors.

will depend on the special rule given - my guess is they wont get the built in wound rerolls that assault intercessors get, but would probably get something relating to movement. Perhaps built in advance and charge, or fallback and charge.

 

Reivers arent and never have been jump troops so weren't really competing on that anyway, IMO their new rules are actually not bad, the lack of AP on weapons kinda sucks, but then again lots of weapons lost or at least reduced AP anyway, so doesn't feel QUITE as bad as it did.

[Orange Knight]

Reivers are fine. Just another unit in the tool box. Deep-strike is not the same as Scout or Infiltrate so they do offer another deployment option in a cheap unit.

 

I am very interested to see the Primaris assault marines. I hope they clean up their wargear and rules, but also make them compelling. Until chapter specific kits are released they'll need to fill a role in Blood Angel or Raven Guard armies.

 

In 10th, GW have been pretty good with not making flying units automatically superior to the less mobile versions.

[Kallas]

33 minutes ago, Blindhamster said:

no moreso than assault marines already undermine assault intercessors.

The old unit undermines the new unit somehow? Assault Intercessors are literally just an Assault Squad (but with slightly different pistols!), how exactly does the pre-existing squad undermine the new squad?

[Karhedron]

54 minutes ago, Blindhamster said:

will depend on the special rule given - my guess is they wont get the built in wound rerolls that assault intercessors get, but would probably get something relating to movement. Perhaps built in advance and charge, or fallback and charge.

 

I think the rules for Assault squads in the Index are the rules for the new Assault Intercessors. If you look at the profile, they have the Primaris +1A baked into their profile while 100% Firstborn units like Blood Claws do not.

[CL_Mission]

My main hope for new Assault Marine is they don't come on flight stands. I don't loath the stands as much as some, I think they're fine on my Inceptors and Suppressors but I think I'd prefer a squad like Assault Marine to come with the same sort of basing as the current kit

[sarabando]

new space marines?! oh new PRIMARIS space marines :( 

[Blindhamster]

3 hours ago, Kallas said:

The old unit undermines the new unit somehow? Assault Intercessors are literally just an Assault Squad (but with slightly different pistols!), how exactly does the pre-existing squad undermine the new squad?

relax dude, I'm not belittling assault squads. I'm pointing out that the two units had their own role, this will be the same with the update (though post update, I suspect the "primaris" assault squad and the "firstborn" assault squad will be one and the same)

[Captain Idaho]

=][= Please refrain from taking the topic off track - it's not about Primaris modus operandi vs historic Firstborn etc; that's a topic that could be better served elsewhere (though I'm sure it has before...) =][=

[Blindhamster]

33 minutes ago, JayJapanB said:

Otherwise you end up with weird stuff like Inceptors, which within the context of the rest of the space marine range, aren't a coherent design.

Disagree here.

They're a very logical unit. They serve exactly the same purpose as a devastator squad in drop pod BUT they are more mobile once they're deployed. Visually their appearance is as it is because they insert from orbit without a drop pod, I still remember chatting with Jes about them and was really interesting.

 

So -

1. they wear heavy armour with an enclosed canopy over their normal helm for insertion from orbit
2. they ALSO wear heavy armour because their role expects them to deploy into the thick of it directly
3. they carry heavier weapons because, much like devastator squads in drop pods, their role is typically to blow something away on arrival (their reduced numbers of shots makes them less good at that from a pure rules perspective now though)
4. they have jump packs because of point 1, but it also helps them sure up a weakness devastators in pods had, namely getting around after deep striking.

 

Sorry Idaho, I saw your post after I put this one in.

 

On topic

 

I'm really hoping the chaplain is cool, got to love a chaplain, the storm shield sounds cool in theory, but with it just being an extra wound, I think i'd have preferred a gun.

 

if the captain supports weapon options, thats very exciting for me!

 

the jump infantry unit I expect to just be an assault squad, but in tacticus, much like sternguard.

 

scouts have me interested to see how they pan out.

Edited July 5, 2023 by Blindhamster

[Captain Idaho]

That's alright, crossed in the post and all that. 

[OttoVonAwesome]

I'm willing to wager it's not Jump pack assualt intercessors coming out but new Vanguard coming instead. Core firstborn units aren't getting replaced yet but weve already seen the Sternguard go and the Vanguard datasheet is just a placeholder made with zero effort.

[OttoVonAwesome]

8 hours ago, ZeroWolf said:

Doesn't fit the pattern for kill team season starter boxes though. Every box that launches the season always has two brand new teams. It's the boxes afterwards that's one brand new team and upgrade sprue. Hence the speculation about assault Terminators and genestealers (with the stealers being brand new and the assault termis being the new multipart Terminator kit with sprue)

 

As for multiple marine units stepping on toes, I think that's part of the reason that each unit now has its own special rule, which I bet we'll see further refinement on.

By regular I meant new sprue of course with the smaller add on sprue for the kill team operatives. All of them have it what's strange is things like death Korps and legionaires just had the sprue options added to thier data sheet rather than getting seperate datasheets like the Corsairs and Arbites did suggesting an eventual release of a cheaper box without it that never happened.

[Nephaston]

38 minutes ago, OttoVonAwesome said:

I'm willing to wager it's not Jump pack assualt intercessors coming out but new Vanguard coming instead. Core firstborn units aren't getting replaced yet but weve already seen the Sternguard go and the Vanguard datasheet is just a placeholder made with zero effort.

If vanguard veterans get updated I would not be surprised if they were in phobos armour, that way they can be the veterans of vanguard formations ah-hyuck.

That way we also have 3 of 6 veteran niches covered (tacticus has melee and ranged vets in bladeguard and sternguard, vanguard would then be phobos melee vets).

[Kallas]

8 hours ago, Blindhamster said:

relax dude, I'm not belittling assault squads. I'm pointing out that the two units had their own role, this will be the same with the update (though post update, I suspect the "primaris" assault squad and the "firstborn" assault squad will be one and the same)

Yeah, they're the same role and balancing them becomes harder because they're trying to give them both a niche when they do exactly the same thing. Still not seeing how the Assault Squad is undermining the Assault Intercessors.

 

The problem always comes back to releasing more Marine kits that are already covered. Of course, the range already covers the vast majority of possible roles, but adding more units that duplicate a role means it's going to be difficult to make each stand out from the other. As Idaho said: the Marine line is oversaturated; I don't think spitting out more units that do the same thing as existing units is going to help that in any way, unless we're talking about GW's bank balance.

 

4 hours ago, OttoVonAwesome said:

I'm willing to wager it's not Jump pack assualt intercessors coming out but new Vanguard coming instead. Core firstborn units aren't getting replaced yet but weve already seen the Sternguard go and the Vanguard datasheet is just a placeholder made with zero effort.

Very likely it'll be Vanguard. They smashed them with the Thunder Hammers they took away, and then they'll release a new 'Vanguard' kit the same as Sternguard with limited options; hell, new Vanguard kit might only have fancy looking Chainswords to justify the current profile, like how Sternguard no longer have any real options, just Bolt weapons.

Edited July 5, 2023 by Tyriks

[ZeroWolf]

1 hour ago, OttoVonAwesome said:

By regular I meant new sprue of course with the smaller add on sprue for the kill team operatives. All of them have it what's strange is things like death Korps and legionaires just had the sprue options added to thier data sheet rather than getting seperate datasheets like the Corsairs and Arbites did suggesting an eventual release of a cheaper box without it that never happened.

Ah I get you now.

[Sete]

Valrak with a rumour? Lies! Deception! 

 

Seriously tho, more stuff for DA?

Interesting.

Edited July 5, 2023 by Sete

[Blindhamster]

1 hour ago, Kallas said:

Still not seeing how the Assault Squad is undermining the Assault Intercessors.

That was kinda the point, they don’t, and a new jump assault squad won’t either.

[Kallas]

6 minutes ago, Blindhamster said:

That was kinda the point, they don’t, and a new jump assault squad won’t either.

Oh yeah, I see. I misread the initial quoted response. My bad.

[Malakithe]

I wonder what this means for Death Company Ints...upgrade sprue for jump packs?

[Orion]

26 minutes ago, Malakithe said:

I wonder what this means for Death Company Ints...upgrade sprue for jump packs?

 

The current Death Company box is just 5 intercessors with a standard Primaris Blood Angels upgrade sprue. 

[irlLordy]

I just stuck the standalone jump pack set on some spare ETB assault intercessors. Boom, upscaled assault marines, and future proofing for primaris jump pack marines ;)

 

[Kastor Krieg]

1 hour ago, irlLordy said:

I just stuck the standalone jump pack set on some spare ETB assault intercessors. Boom, upscaled assault marines, and future proofing for primaris jump pack marines ;)

Yeah, unless the sculpts are really exceptional, I literally plan on buying cheap second hand Assault Intercessors people have tons of, smashing Firstborn jump pack on them and calling it a day.

[LSM]

17 hours ago, Nephaston said:

If vanguard veterans get updated I would not be surprised if they were in phobos armour, that way they can be the veterans of vanguard formations ah-hyuck.

That way we also have 3 of 6 veteran niches covered (tacticus has melee and ranged vets in bladeguard and sternguard, vanguard would then be phobos melee vets).

 

A joke but... I'd actually really like it if there was a squad kitted out like Keyvan Shrike (though I guess he's not technically wearing Phobos armour - more the "Omnis Armour" of the Suppressors with a skinny-jeans modification).

 

Y'know, that might not be that crazy of an idea... Suppressors multipart kit and new Vanguard Veterans in Omnis Armour (alongside the Jump Assault Intercessors)...

 

(Though if that were to happen, I'd expect these hypothetical new VVs to have Shrike-like Lightning Claws, in which case... why was that option removed from VV in the Index? So probably not... but maybe... but probably not...)

[ChapterMasterGodfrey]

Get ready for this spanner in your thought processes: I want (along with jump assault intercessors equipped with the same jump pack as Dante) Jump Reivers, equipped with the same jump pack Shrike has.