The End and the Death Part I, II, III, ...

[Jareddm]

11 hours ago, Nagashsnee said:

But more then that i am dreading the amount of argonauts/random filler chapters that MUST happen to get two more books out of this.  Two for BL standard large books at that.  

 

This is actually the one storyline I'm not worried about giving to Abnett. He first introduced the Perpetuals, and imho, he has been the only one able to write them in a way that makes me care.

[DukeLeto69]

While I totally agree both Wraight and ADB are standout top tier BL writers, re ADB SoT entry there feels like a bit of revisionist history going on here. People accuse Abnett of writing the book he wants and not being a team player but hello! ADB and EoE!!!

 

I think Abnett is the best writer BL have but agree he is far far far better working in the Abnettverse on his own thing. When it comes to collaborative/multi-author series, Abnett’s strength is as a “setter upper” 

 

Abnett, in Horus Rising, made the 30k HH setting fresh and different to 40k. As the series progressed it became increasingly 40k set during 30k. That blame lies with authors and editors.

 

Gaunts Ghosts and the Inquisitor books remain the best books published by BL. They may well play a little loose with the lore. Do I care? Nah not really because they are clever ripping yarns that are immensely readable and highly enjoyable.

 

Should Abnett have finished the HH/SoT series? Probably. Should it be three volumes. Unlikely. Will it be good! I expect so. Will it annoy some people? Without a doubt! 

[Osteoclast]

1 hour ago, DukeLeto69 said:

 

Gaunts Ghosts and the Inquisitor books remain the best books published by BL. They may well play a little loose with the lore. Do I care? Nah not really because they are clever ripping yarns that are immensely readable and highly enjoyable.

 

You sure that isn’t just some very rose tinted glasses? Not only are they very much not, but I’d argue that the Eisenhorn trilogy in particular isn’t even all that good. 

[cheywood]

3 hours ago, Osteoclast said:

You sure that isn’t just some very rose tinted glasses? Not only are they very much not, but I’d argue that the Eisenhorn trilogy in particular isn’t even all that good. 

I wouldn’t call them the ‘best’ books, but I’d argue they’re still essential parts of the canon and well worth reading (first two GG novels excepted).

[DukeLeto69]

5 hours ago, Osteoclast said:

You sure that isn’t just some very rose tinted glasses? Not only are they very much not, but I’d argue that the Eisenhorn trilogy in particular isn’t even all that good. 

 

Subjective maybe but I stand by that.

[Corinthus]

21 hours ago, Nagashsnee said:

 

Objection! In regards to the HH is not even the 2 best they have. The one and ONLY HH author king is chris wraith and you will never change my mind. ADB is number 2.

 

So in conclusion Chris Wraith number 1 change my mind (you wont).  

 

 

 

Yeah, actually Chris Wraight has been the best at the Horus Heresy series, I'll give you that. Nothing comes close to the White Scars arc and the ending of Yesugei still hurts.

But Dan is the best overall writer in the company. And sorry, but ADB is too inconsistent and I would say he tends to isolate and change established lore even more than Abnett.

Edited August 9, 2023 by Corinthus

[DarkChaplain]

14 hours ago, Jareddm said:

This is actually the one storyline I'm not worried about giving to Abnett. He first introduced the Perpetuals, and imho, he has been the only one able to write them in a way that makes me care.

 

To be fair, he's also one of a very select number of authors who have even written about Perpetuals until the Siege - and during the Siege itself, those that have have been carrying the torch from where Dan left them off to where he wanted to actually use them, playing character taxi rather than actually telling their own story with them.

We really only had (editor) Nick Kyme write about John a bit, ADB did a bit with Prytanis but Ollanius in particular has been exclusively Abnett until the Siege, where he was just carried along and didn't actually show up until halfway when Abnett brought him back in.

 

Personally, I've cared a lot more about Alivia Sureka's arc by McNeill (until he just ended that thread in Fury of Magnus) than I do about Oll. She didn't have nearly the amount of page time and still managed to be compelling, whereas Oll was fridged for half a decade before the Siege.

[Ubiquitous1984]

Here is the new front cover for volume III:

 

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2023/08/09/the-end-and-the-death-volume-iii-the-final-cover-reveal/

 

It's a bit meh?

 

Terra looks in a pretty bad way ... and is there any way to identify the ships in orbit?

Edited August 9, 2023 by Ubiquitous1984

[darkhorse0607]

Eh. I don't love it but I like it better than the most recent Emperor v Horus duel

[grailkeeper]

Bit odd they're facing the same direction. Feels asymmetrical.

[System Sound]

Well, at least compared to the abomination that was Visions of Heresy cover, this is an improvement. 

 

The above-mentioned cover...

Spoiler

 

Edit:

 

Called it, on the news being a cover reveal...

Edited August 9, 2023 by System Sound

[Corinthus]

The Emperor looks too small and also not very "god-like". Better job on Horus, mainly because he is not trying a ballet move or something..

[Osteoclast]

1 hour ago, Ubiquitous1984 said:

Here is the new front cover for volume III:

 

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2023/08/09/the-end-and-the-death-volume-iii-the-final-cover-reveal/

 

It's a bit meh?

 

Terra looks in a pretty bad way ... and is there any way to identify the ships in orbit?

Gotta love the laziness of using BFG models that explicitly post-date the heresy and not representing that this is a civil war between two factions with essentially identical equipment. 

[Nagashsnee]

23 minutes ago, Osteoclast said:

Gotta love the laziness of using BFG models that explicitly post-date the heresy and not representing that this is a civil war between two factions with essentially identical equipment. 

 

Who is even fighting in orbit while the duel is going on? Even if the relief fleet breaks into the system in the next book its days out and the remaining ships in system are suppose to storm out and engage the traitor garrisons at the gates to allow the swift relief of terra as of lost and the damned. 

 

Ship wise the siege covers have been lazy from the start, using cadian models instead of actually trying to show off some crazy 30k regiments and armor types. Marketing trumps logic every time, tho with BFG who are they even marketing to? 

Edited August 9, 2023 by Nagashsnee

[darkhorse0607]

16 minutes ago, Nagashsnee said:

 

Who is even fighting in orbit while the duel is going on? Even if the relief fleet breaks into the system in the next book its days out and the remaining ships in system are suppose to storm out and engage the traitor garrisons at the gates to allow the swift relief of terra as of lost and the damned. 

 

Ship wise the siege covers have been lazy from the start, using cadian models instead of actually trying to show off some crazy 30k regiments and armor types. Marketing trumps logic every time, tho with BFG who are they even marketing to? 

THANK YOU

 

I could give it a write off it it was clearly the Macragges Honour, or ships covered in the Ultima symbol. Or even the Phalanx, maybe as the Ultramarines come in system they gather up the remnants of the Solar Defense Fleet.

But at this point I don't know what that's supposed to be.

 

I wish they had kept the older art style that the Heresy books started with (I believe Neil Roberts was the artist but I could be very wrong), I'm not a fan of the last few covers of very bright, almost cartoonish images but I know I could be in the minority

[System Sound]

45 minutes ago, Osteoclast said:

Gotta love the laziness of using BFG models that explicitly post-date the heresy and not representing that this is a civil war between two factions with essentially identical equipment. 

So I didn't imagine it, That arrowhead ships came about way later after the heresy, no?

Edited August 9, 2023 by System Sound

[LemartestheLost]

I have to agree with several of the other fraters here, the TEATD Vol. 3 cover is just a bit lackluster here. In my opinion Big E is looking more like Small E and the point of view definitely could have been changed for a side profile like Visions. Same-y, I’m aware, but it just would have clicked better. Also, why do we need to see Terra blown to hell with traitor ships all about? That’s been the status quo for the past how many books? Sure, there are plenty of plot lines that won’t end on the Vengeful Spirit, but come on, this is the big rumble in the jungle! The entire focus should be on the two titans of the conflict in a singular moment of strife. Just my two cents.

[63-19]

42 minutes ago, Nagashsnee said:

 

Who is even fighting in orbit while the duel is going on? Even if the relief fleet breaks into the system in the next book its days out and the remaining ships in system are suppose to storm out and engage the traitor garrisons at the gates to allow the swift relief of terra as of lost and the damned. 

 

Ship wise the siege covers have been lazy from the start, using cadian models instead of actually trying to show off some crazy 30k regiments and armor types. Marketing trumps logic every time, tho with BFG who are they even marketing to? 

lionsgate go crazy

[DarkChaplain]

That cover... sucks. I mean, the detai level is good and all, but the composition is just very poor. I suppose the Emperor is intended to be swallowed by the darkness exuding from Horus here, hence the jumpy pose but it just doesn't work. The framing of the duel is just very strange and the Emperor seems surpsingly understated for a guy doing a Marvel hero pose.

 

Even ignoring the anachronism of the ships, the space battle scene is narratively off-kilter. Either implement the main forces expected to be there, led by the Ultramarines push, but also the Phalanx, or at least have a motley assortment of rogues and pirates mixed in. They didn't even commit to Legion symbols here, what the heck.

 

But then again, who's going to care about that half of the cover anyway? It probably won't even be getting featured in the limited edition because full cover spreads are so oldschool. And the hardcover/paperback will plaster back cover text over it.

 

Worst of all, though, having this cover already sets in stone that the duel will not happen in part two. I also wasn't really expecting an Emperor-on-Throne cover for part three, after he was sitting on it for part one already, but it's a big missed opportunity to leave the big duel shot to Visions of Heresy's inevitable final edition, and truly mark the END and the DEATH of the Heresy by starring the beaten, broken Emperor clutching the throne, an icon of pain and suffering, of martyrdom, rather than having him act out this action set piece for the xth time.

 

Ideally, in my mind, they should've had the final cover be an echo of the John Blanche art of the decayed God-Emperor

 

 

 

Basically encapsulating what Dorn and co see before them after the Emperor stops speaking forever (until GW decides it's time for daddy to wake up). An image of loss and grief, not of triumphant swashbuckling.

Edited August 9, 2023 by DarkChaplain

[Taliesin]

2 hours ago, Ubiquitous1984 said:

Here is the new front cover for volume III:

 

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2023/08/09/the-end-and-the-death-volume-iii-the-final-cover-reveal/

 

It's a bit meh?

 

 

It does. Covers for book 1 and 2 of this final trilogy were better. This is just very uninspiring.

 

2 hours ago, System Sound said:

Well, at least compared to the abomination that was Visions of Heresy cover, this is an improvement. 

 

The above-mentioned cover...

  Hide contents

 

Edit:

 

Called it, on the news being a cover reveal...

 

Actually prefer that Visions of Heresy cover to this new one for volume 10.

[Roomsky]

I'll agree it's not great, though it is my favourite rendition of this scene from Roberts. I can't get over Time Baby Horus on the Visions cover, deflates the whole thing.

 

Roberts just isn't good at atmospheric pieces, which depending on your point of view, makes him wholly unsuitable for Warhammer art. I think he's had some good pieces throughout the series but overall I dislike his work. I do agree wounded Emperor on the throne would've been better as well, but at least this is another point against the Rage-Sanguinius theory.

[Osteoclast]

40 minutes ago, Roomsky said:

I'll agree it's not great, though it is my favourite rendition of this scene from Roberts. I can't get over Time Baby Horus on the Visions cover, deflates the whole thing.

 

Roberts just isn't good at atmospheric pieces, which depending on your point of view, makes him wholly unsuitable for Warhammer art. I think he's had some good pieces throughout the series but overall I dislike his work. I do agree wounded Emperor on the throne would've been better as well, but at least this is another point against the Rage-Sanguinius theory.

The desert scene in book one leaves me with the fear it’ll be temporarily Khornate Dorn that does in the Emperor. 

[Scribe]

23 hours ago, Jareddm said:

This is actually the one storyline I'm not worried about giving to Abnett. He first introduced the Perpetuals, and imho, he has been the only one able to write them in a way that makes me care.

 

Funny, that was Mortis for me.

[Scribe]

21 hours ago, DukeLeto69 said:

ADB and EoE!!!

 

ADB did nothing wrong. They were not his plot lines to carry to conclusion, and in fact none of them could be carried to conclusion in his entry anyway.

 

This revisionist, slanderous, mistaken, whataboutism position that ADB somehow didnt do enough for the SoT is offensive.

 

ADB has corrected more author's mistakes than probably any other author in the stable, and yeah some of those were Abnetts.

 

This perpetual nonsense is Abnetts mess, and other authors shouldnt have had to carry his water.

 

And despite that, French DID carry his water as Mortis actually did more for the flawed Perpetual arc than anyone else, Abnett included.

[Scribe]

And you can bring all the disagrees you like, while we are hammered with Abnett's 'prose' for another 1200 pages as Dorn walks with Khorne, and Malcador contemplates his navel and clocks continue to running out, I will reflect upon them deeply.

 

Emperor doing what exactly in Book 2? Tune in next time for 'How I walked a starship for 600 pages and accomplished nothing.'