Kill Team Kill Team: Salvation (Striking Scorpions vs Primaris Scouts)

[Halandaar]

1 hour ago, Ming the Merciless said:

Does anyone actually want/like the terrain set?

 

£75 

 

If it was priced such that the two things together came to the same price as the previous all-inclusive boxes (so about £125 total) I might have considered it, but certainly not at that price. 

 

In general I appreciate the decoupling of the terrain from the units, as it allows you to pick and choose which parts you want and still get some amount of saving on it, versus the previous method where you either had to buy the big £125 box or wait for the standalone kits at maximum price. 

 

For £75 a time it needs to be something new and cool (or at the very least, out of print like the death world Eldar ruins or the sector imperialis statuary). Yet another set of Sector Mechanicus gantries won't cut it.

[Mogger351]

It makes me question what the stand-alone boxes will look like. I suspect at this point that scouts/scorpions will be in £30ish boxes of 5 and 40k kits?

[The Spitehorde]

2 hours ago, Ming the Merciless said:

 

Does anyone actually want/like the terrain set?

 

£75 

 

I'll certainly not be buying it. In general i'm a big fan of collecting terrain but this terrain set leaves me cold. It's utterly boring, and with another price hike (compare it's cost to previous Kill Zones) adding insult to injury. Heck, if they'd just repackaged a bunch of Sector Imperialis stuff it'd have sold like hotcakes and they'd not have had to sink serious money into a new set of moulds... 

 

Edited December 12, 2023 by The Spitehorde

[lhg033]

2 hours ago, Ming the Merciless said:

 

Does anyone actually want/like the terrain set?

 

£75 

 

I like it in the sense it gives more of a mid-layer for the Ad mech terrain and I have a lot of that so could use this quite well.

£75.... not so keen on that. I dont generally buy terrain separately so will probably give this a miss/I would be happier having some of it as part of a new kill team starter box - it might have been the difference to make me interested in this release. I kind of want the scouts in this one but am less fussed about the scorpions. A decent amount of terrain bundled in might have got me off the fence for it

[apologist]

16 minutes ago, Mogger351 said:

It makes me question what the stand-alone boxes will look like. I suspect at this point that scouts/scorpions will be in £30ish boxes of 5 and 40k kits?

 

Sadly, the infamous 'xenos tax' is probably going to apply here. The Howling Banshees and Dark Reapers are both £37.50 for 5.

 

The chances of the new kit being priced to match the Dire Avengers (£27.50, but reboxed from the original £25 for 10) or the resin sculpt they're replacing (£30) is minimal.

 

The Scouts are harder to predict. They might be anywhere between £30 and £37.50. Personally, I'd take a stab at £32.50.

[Redcomet]

24 minutes ago, Mogger351 said:

It makes me question what the stand-alone boxes will look like. I suspect at this point that scouts/scorpions will be in £30ish boxes of 5 and 40k kits?

All the previous kill teams have been released as Kill Team branded boxes with 10 dudes in. So I put money on these being the same. My guess in the expensive bracket of 42.50£

[Matrindur]

10 minutes ago, Redcomet said:

All the previous kill teams have been released as Kill Team branded boxes with 10 dudes in. So I put money on these being the same. My guess in the expensive bracket of 42.50£

There is no way its just two sets of ten minis for £42.50 each simply because then the box would just be a savings of £5 plus whatever those few terrain pieces and the play material is worth. And that is just not how GW works. Not because they want to give you a deal with this box, its because the individual releases will always be more expensive than these boxes.

 

If its 10x scouts for £42.50 and 2 times 5x Striking Scorpions for £37.5 each that would be £117.5 with a 32% discount on the box which is perfectly in line with every other bundled box they release.

 

And since the Striking Scorpions are the only kill team without any special kill team modeling options it wouldn't even be strange if they don't get a kill team branded individual box. Probably because the speculation about it being an aspect kill team instead of a scorpions kill team are true and you are supposed to buy a few different aspect boxes to get different kinds of models for you kill team

Edited December 12, 2023 by Matrindur

[Ming the Merciless]

20 minutes ago, apologist said:

 

 

The Scouts are harder to predict. They might be anywhere between £30 and £37.50. Personally, I'd take a stab at £32.50.

 

Same price as the Hounds of Morkai (£32.50) sounds reasonable, in which case I'll guess £35.

[Bouargh]

3 hours ago, Ming the Merciless said:

Does anyone actually want/like the terrain set?

 

£75 

 

Gantries and Ferratonic Furnace on a stand alone basis are probably alredy leading to 75 pounds on basis f prices that used to be.

Meaning the "discount" you get is for the objective markers sprue (if not included on the new gantries/pilars) and the card board mat. 

 

Worth it? Well, each and every one will decide on basis of its collection.

In my case, it might be a potencial addition to my existing sector mechanicus scenery BUT it clearly competes with other killzones/environments (all ooP but still available in some local stores) that cost the same. I would be more interested into a Munitorum hub or, better, a sector fronteris (the one with ruined Ryza patern bunkers) at 80€. In a nutshell, the new set is a second choice, not a lead buy.

[Halandaar]

I mean we've been going round and round and round with this "how much will the standalone kit cost" discussion for weeks now.

 

Short answer is we simply won't know until GW does it; releasing the Scorpions as a 5-model kit with pricing to match Reapers and Banshees makes sense, but releasing it as a 10-model kit with pricing to match the other Kill Teams also makes sense. Neither is obviously more correct than the other at this point. 

[Bev'an]

Have unsealed original kill zones lol and way too much sector imperialis/mech to need more, I’m glad it’s separate! 

[Mogger351]

13 minutes ago, Halandaar said:

I mean we've been going round and round and round with this "how much will the standalone kit cost" discussion for weeks now.

 

Short answer is we simply won't know until GW does it; releasing the Scorpions as a 5-model kit with pricing to match Reapers and Banshees makes sense, but releasing it as a 10-model kit with pricing to match the other Kill Teams also makes sense. Neither is obviously more correct than the other at this point. 

On this occasion the 10 man boxes do not make sense however unless the £80 box is basically next to no saving.

[Redcomet]

6 minutes ago, Mogger351 said:

On this occasion the 10 man boxes do not make sense however unless the £80 box is basically next to no saving.

Two squads for 42.50£ means all the rules and other bits are free. Thats a solid 30£ savings easily.

[Halandaar]

Just now, Mogger351 said:

On this occasion the 10 man boxes do not make sense however unless the £80 box is basically next to no saving.

 

It's only "next to no saving" if you're presuming that only the units themselves have any value, which is obviously not the case. Even if a hypothetical 10-man Scout box and 10-man Scorpion box sell for £37.50 each, that means you're getting the Salvation supplement, the unit cards and the terrain sprue for 5 quid. Given that the supplement books retail for £27.50 each you're already saving £22.50 (so 28%) before you even consider the cards and terrain. You might personally not want/need the game materials, but that doesn't mean that they don't have value.

 

All I can do is point you towards Warcry Hunter and Hunted, which was in this same format and at the same price: box was £80, comes with 2 warbands, terrain sprue, rulebook and cards. The warbands are complete kits (not duplicate-5-man kits) so therefore have to retail in the standard Warcry warband price range of £35.00-37.50 when sold separately. Kill Team and Warcy have mirrored each other pretty closely the last couple of years so if this level of discount is good enough for Warcry, it's also good enough for Kill Team.

 

 

[Karhedron]

When you compare this to the KT 1.0 box set (which also cost £80), I cannot contain my disappointment at how far the value offering has fallen. 

 

[Dark Legionnare]

40 minutes ago, Karhedron said:

When you compare this to the KT 1.0 box set (which also cost £80), I cannot contain my disappointment at how far the value offering has fallen. 

 

I was just talking yesterday about this exact point with somebody about their "value per set."

[01RTB01]

4 hours ago, Redcomet said:

All the previous kill teams have been released as Kill Team branded boxes with 10 dudes in. So I put money on these being the same. My guess in the expensive bracket of 42.50£

Way too optimistic.

 

Scorpions are minimum 5 man squad in 40k. They'll be released at £37.50 or more for 5. 

 

1. There's aspect warrior precedent.

2. Look at the value of leviathan. With the prices released for some of the extra bits it's looking like leviathan is at least 50% off of what the contents cost.

3. Its just 2 duplicate scorpion sprues in the box.

4. I know the new kill team box contains 10 scorpions but would they all be used in a single kill team?

[Mogger351]

2 hours ago, Halandaar said:

 

It's only "next to no saving" if you're presuming that only the units themselves have any value, which is obviously not the case. Even if a hypothetical 10-man Scout box and 10-man Scorpion box sell for £37.50 each, that means you're getting the Salvation supplement, the unit cards and the terrain sprue for 5 quid. Given that the supplement books retail for £27.50 each you're already saving £22.50 (so 28%) before you even consider the cards and terrain. You might personally not want/need the game materials, but that doesn't mean that they don't have value.

 

All I can do is point you towards Warcry Hunter and Hunted, which was in this same format and at the same price: box was £80, comes with 2 warbands, terrain sprue, rulebook and cards. The warbands are complete kits (not duplicate-5-man kits) so therefore have to retail in the standard Warcry warband price range of £35.00-37.50 when sold separately. Kill Team and Warcy have mirrored each other pretty closely the last couple of years so if this level of discount is good enough for Warcry, it's also good enough for Kill Team.

 

 

I am aware, but try as you might they have ripped huge amounts of value from the situation. People were very meh over the warcry boxes if I recall as well, but that largely was down to the terrain not bring great so it allowed people to avoid it, same as this.

[Noserenda]

Id quite like the terrain set, the walkways are damn useful. 

Not at that price though lol

[lhg033]

1 hour ago, Karhedron said:

When you compare this to the KT 1.0 box set (which also cost £80), I cannot contain my disappointment at how far the value offering has fallen. 

 

Still gutted I missed out on that one. I would have bought multiple copies if I could have to start a GSC army and fill out my Admech.

I got Tau/Reivers one and then Kommandos/Kreig one - both had a decent amount of terrain in them though arguably these were 'starter sets' and the new version is a new 'season' instead. Even then the Gallow dark sets (missed out on these too for the ones I would have bought) had a decent amount of terrain included

 

[TheMawr]

3 hours ago, Matrindur said:

And since the Striking Scorpions are the only kill team without any special kill team modeling options it wouldn't even be strange if they don't get a kill team branded individual box. Probably because the speculation about it being an aspect kill team instead of a scorpions kill team are true and you are supposed to buy a few different aspect boxes to get different kinds of models for you kill team

 

I see it popping up a lot that people think its speculation that Striking scorpions are a multi aspect killteam.. however it isnt speculation, the Kill team is Blades of Khaine and at the announcement they said you can have different aspect warriors ( Dire avengers and Howling banshees mentioned specifically, though not wether its just them.) and they went into detail that IF you have 10 of the same there will be certain advantages, but if you mix aspect warriors there will also be certain advantages.

 

Even though I myself am not on that side of the discussion/speculation; There could be another defence to striking scorpions ending up cheaper as the other new aspects ( by being released as a 2x5 kill team seperately for example.) that I havent seen used :

It seems they might occupy less sprue space than Banshees and Reapers did.  Banshees needed a lot of sprue space for the big hair and the poses, and reapers have bigger weapons and volumed layers for the heavy armor "tabards" meanwhile none of the striking scorpion elements seem to occupy more than a similair amount of guardians or corsairs. Its entirely possible that the striking scorpions occupy 2 sprues vs the 3 sprues Banshees and Reapers have.

However that would imply GW pricing is tied to amount of plastic.. wich I think is their least important variable for value.

 

 

On the other hand there are different possible arguments for each of the 3 new seasons kill teams we know to not get a individual kill team release at all... individual kill teams might not break patterns, but an entire season definitely could;

 

-- Blades of Khaine --

This has been discussed plenty.

 

-- Scouts --

Here the argument is more in the photography department.. the solo studio pictures GW uses for all kill teams so far have been pretty much focused on the kill teams only.. even if battlefield shots exist of their more 40k focused layouts, the high res individual product images used for box presentation, store presentation, datasheets etc. do not seem to exist for those. ( the red armored corsair unit for example... they have a studio paintjob more fitting to 40k, but they never seem to have made a product photography round for them.)

Except for scouts.. they where first presented as a 5man Ultramarine (so 40k) release... so they went trough the effort of product photography. Wich could indicate their seperate release will be for 40k.. not kill team.

Its not a strong argument in a vacuum however, as spacemarine releases always have multiple chapter product photography rounds.

 

-- Nemesis claw --

Is effectively a Faction specific upgrade sprue, we have had faction upgrade sprues before... we havent had them in kill team before. The "pattern" for faction upgrade sprues contradicts the pattern for KT operative upgrade sprues. wich makes alot of sense. So even here there are very strong and logical arguments to be made that its more likely it will be sold as a Night lords upgrade sprue only rather than a Nemesis claw kill team. Not in the least because there already is a chaos legionaires based seperate kill team.

 

 

Not meant to fire up that discussion again though... but I think its an interesting thing.

 

 

[The Scorpion]

5 hours ago, lhg033 said:

 

I like it in the sense it gives more of a mid-layer for the Ad mech terrain and I have a lot of that so could use this quite well.

£75.... not so keen on that. I dont generally buy terrain separately so will probably give this a miss/I would be happier having some of it as part of a new kill team starter box - it might have been the difference to make me interested in this release. I kind of want the scouts in this one but am less fussed about the scorpions. A decent amount of terrain bundled in might have got me off the fence for it

 

I like the special rules about fog and pillars, hopefully some of these LoS changes will make their way to 40k one day. Emperor knows many tables are nothing but Ad Mech gantries on a flat ass surface.

[Halandaar]

 

1 hour ago, Mogger351 said:

I am aware, but try as you might they have ripped huge amounts of value from the situation. People were very meh over the warcry boxes if I recall as well, but that largely was down to the terrain not bring great so it allowed people to avoid it, same as this.

 

This is a bit cake and eat it, no? We (the community) seem to like the option to just skip the terrain if it's no use to us, but then complain that we aren't getting as good value as if it was a bigger bundle like the previous sets? More stuff in the box = better price is the way it's always worked with GW, not sure why we're surprised that splitting the product down is going to be worse value. I mean really this is just the release cycle we've had had for the last 2 years, just advanced slightly - they would do a big set with the teams, terrain and rules, then 3 months later release the terrain, teams and rules separately for a way worse price. This is just that, but done upfront.

 

And FWIW I actually bought that Warcry terrain set because the Seraphon ship pieces were new/cool, not just a re-re-re-release of the game's most ubiquitous terrain style.

 

 

Edited December 12, 2023 by Halandaar

[Mogger351]

14 minutes ago, Halandaar said:

 

 

This is a bit cake and eat it, no? We (the community) seem to like the option to just skip the terrain if it's no use to us, but then complain that we aren't getting as good value as if it was a bigger bundle like the previous sets? More stuff in the box = better price is the way it's always worked with GW, not sure why we're surprised that splitting the product down is going to be worse value. I mean really this is just the release cycle we've had had for the last 2 years, just advanced slightly - they would do a big set with the teams, terrain and rules, then 3 months later release the terrain, teams and rules separately for a way worse price. This is just that, but done upfront.

 

And FWIW I actually bought that Warcry terrain set because the Seraphon ship pieces were new/cool, not just a re-re-re-release of the game's most ubiquitous terrain style.

 

 

It suits some better than others, can't deny that but there's less cake per unit of currency for you to eat, no way to dress that up. It's just more convenient if you're less hungry.

[Halandaar]

41 minutes ago, Mogger351 said:

It suits some better than others, can't deny that but there's less cake per unit of currency for you to eat, no way to dress that up. It's just more convenient if you're less hungry.

 

I suppose it will come down to the ratio of people who like to eat the whole cake versus those who only wanted half but had to either buy the whole cake and let half go stale, or buy half a cake slice by slice. 

 

For those latter group the "half-a-cake" special is better. For the former, it is admittedly worse.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited December 12, 2023 by Halandaar