It's possible for all of the Primarchs to be brought back

[Karhedron]

11 minutes ago, roryokane said:

The other loyalists could come back. Personally, I like the idea of Vulkan, the Khan, or Russ coming back more than the others, but I'm open to the others.

 

These 3 along with Corax were never confirmed dead, they simply disappeared. We know Corax was alive well into the Scouring playing Hide'n'seek with Lorgar in the Eye of Terror.

 

Dorn was believed killed but that has now been retconned slightly so that instead of recovering his body, the Imperial Fists only recovered his charred, skeletal hand so he could potentially return. Interestingly, in Praetorian of Dorn, he fights Alparius and cuts his hands off before killing him. This means he could have been carrying around a Primarch-sized hand in case he ever needed to fake his own death. 

[Jscarlos18]

WARNING! Rant:

Spoiler

As a Tyranid fan I know that sadly the xenos factions will never be as relevant to the story as the IoM and Chaos, specially with the Primarchs, so seeing them return is something I don't want.

 

Unfortunately, they are the characters that sell the best with the fans, and I know that with the mono-God Primarchs, RG and Lion now in 40k and the tabletop, it's a matter of time when all or almost all are brought back. Even Sang, Ferrus and Horus. Potentially the two missing ones, if they're really desperate.

 

The Primarchs have the whole Warp Demigods made flesh to justify their feats and abilities.

 

I know some people don't like Herohammer and feel like not every faction needs their own Primarch equivalent for 1vs1 duels, but I'm curious how will GW do to justify the IoM and Chaos not steamrolling the xenos factions and their main characters each time the IoM/Chaos and their Primarchs enter the battlefields in the narrative.

 

The excuse of having numbers doesn't matter much when the hordes of Tyranids/Orks/other xenos get completely whipped out already without much problem. Even their main chqaracters already struggle to fight the not-best SM protagonist of the day.

 

I read Crusade:Tyrannic War and loved the bits of the Norn Emissaries. I also love the lore of Deathleaper and Old One Eye.

 

Don't know the rest of xenos fans, but would love to brag about the Swarmlord every once in a while like how IoM/Chaos SM can say how awesome are their Primarchs.

 

Really the disparity in "Power Levels" is absurd, even if that is not something that matters in the lore. IoM are the protagonist of the setting but would love to see xenos characters kicking named Space Marine's or even Primarch's asses sometimes.

 

I think the most powerful xenos in lore that have been able to fight them on equal footing were the Prime-Orks and the Avatar of Khaine in Fulgrim right?

 

I don't know. What do you guys think? I'm being absurd? Does it really matter if the xenos main characters never reach Primarch-tier levels of combat power?

Edited October 22, 2023 by Jscarlos18

[Sword Brother Adelard]

By Prime-Orks do you mean the Beasts from the Beast Arises? Because The Beast (IIRC there were more than one) Went toe to toe with Vulkan and it was close,

[Jscarlos18]

4 minutes ago, Sword Brother Adelard said:

By Prime-Orks do you mean the Beasts from the Beast Arises? Because The Beast (IIRC there were more than one) Went toe to toe with Vulkan and it was close,

Yeah, I meant those guys.

[WARMASTER_]

On 10/20/2023 at 1:11 PM, Inquisitor_Lensoven said:

The foil has been on point historicall, and it just makes sense from a business perspective. Primarchs are money machines.

 

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=u5JnUGGUj2U

The ones that are “lost” more than likely will the ones that are dead should stay dead 

 

I don’t like it the loyalist Primarchs should have remained in 30k but that’s life 

[OttoVonAwesome]

10 hours ago, lansalt said:

Did something happen in the Fall of Cadia novel? Because otherwise Clonegrim is still safely stored somewhere in Solemnace with his EC followers.

His collection room got messed up and something that sure sounds like a Primarch went missing out of a busted tank as far as I remember. Can't remember if it was before Cadia or after the rift opened.

[spessmarine]

12 hours ago, roryokane said:

It's been hinted at in the Lore for decades that Guilliman MIGHT return. I'm just miffed at the way they did it, not that they did (plus Primaris Marines. Blech. Even if I LOVE Belisarius Cawl as a character and The Great Work is an absolutely fantastic novel). It's not quite the same as Horus or Sanguinius or Ferrus Manus, who are definitely deaded and weren't preserved JUST IN THE NICK OF TIME to potentially allow them a comeback.
The other loyalists could come back. Personally, I like the idea of Vulkan, the Khan, or Russ coming back more than the others, but I'm open to the others.

 

Vulkan, Corax, Khan, and Russ all got the to be continued status. Dorn, is iffy due to retcons. Lion and Guilliman were in the status of the first 4 I mentioned. So I could see quite a few come back over the stretch of maybe a decade or so. Space dads who beat up the other space dads and big named character/centrepieces are hype.

Horus, Kurze, and Sanguinius are the three that should stay down mainly as dying is core to them as characters lol

[Karhedron]

3 minutes ago, spessmarine said:

Horus, Kurze, and Sanguinius are the three that should stay down mainly as dying is core to them as characters lol

 

I would put Ferrus in there as well but basically I agree with you. The Black Legion arguably have Abaddon who fulfils the same role and I like to think that the Blood Angels will one day get a Super Saiyan version of the Sanguinor.

[Inquisitor_Lensoven]

6 hours ago, spessmarine said:

 

Vulkan, Corax, Khan, and Russ all got the to be continued status. Dorn, is iffy due to retcons. Lion and Guilliman were in the status of the first 4 I mentioned. So I could see quite a few come back over the stretch of maybe a decade or so. Space dads who beat up the other space dads and big named character/centrepieces are hype.

Horus, Kurze, and Sanguinius are the three that should stay down mainly as dying is core to them as characters lol

Sanguinius is basically the imperial Jesus. Jesus sacrificed himself, and returned it would be completely within character to have sanguinius return.

[phandaal]

21 minutes ago, Inquisitor_Lensoven said:

Sanguinius is basically the imperial Jesus. Jesus sacrificed himself, and returned it would be completely within character to have sanguinius return.

 

Sanguinius is the Warhammer version of the Archangel Michael, not Jesus. In this version, Michael gets defeated by Lucifer in their duel during Lucifer's rebellion, instead of the other way around.

[WARMASTER_]

37 minutes ago, Inquisitor_Lensoven said:

Sanguinius is basically the imperial Jesus. Jesus sacrificed himself, and returned it would be completely within character to have sanguinius return.

This a STRETCH if I’ve ever seen one…
 

He’s dead and should stay dead, his sacrifice and death are a corner stone of 40K lore [From a time when the lore was great at that] He’s dead and the meaning of that death is way more powerful than “he’s kinda like Jesus so he should return” If GW ever decide to resurrect him you may as well have the Emperor get up off the throne and start another great crusade because nothing is sacred anymore and they’ve truly lost the all sense of what they’re doing with the lore  

 

 

[Emperor Ming]

The Emperor was Jesus

 

and most other religious figures

 

Thou I have a hard time imagining him as buddha

[Emperor Ming]

1 hour ago, WARMASTER_ said:

This a STRETCH if I’ve ever seen one…
 

He’s dead and should stay dead, his sacrifice and death are a corner stone of 40K lore [From a time when the lore was great at that] He’s dead and the meaning of that death is way more powerful than “he’s kinda like Jesus so he should return” If GW ever decide to resurrect him you may as well have the Emperor get up off the throne and start another great crusade because nothing is sacred anymore and they’ve truly lost the all sense of what they’re doing with the lore  

Again, guilliman died and the Emperor brought him back so...

 

I'm not saying it should happen, but its absolutely possible and will probably happen due to £££

[spessmarine]

10 hours ago, Karhedron said:

 

I would put Ferrus in there as well but basically I agree with you. The Black Legion arguably have Abaddon who fulfils the same role and I like to think that the Blood Angels will one day get a Super Saiyan version of the Sanguinor.

I was unsure about including Manus. Yeah dying is basically what he is known for, but not in a character arc sort of way like the other three. Less essential to his being more so making him the butt of jokes. Though, a lot of this stems from being borderline the forgotten/unloved legion

[WARMASTER_]

On 10/23/2023 at 4:35 PM, Emperor Ming said:

Again, guilliman died and the Emperor brought him back so...

 

I'm not saying it should happen, but its absolutely possible and will probably happen due to £££

Guy Haley is one of the worst offenders of jank new lore especially regarding Cawl, Primaris, BA + ultima founding mess [IMO] but what you’re referring to isn’t the same at all… In that instance the Emperor saves Guiliman before he’s “really” dead or at least saves him in the moment of death by staving of a Warp based contagion and healing him as the Primarch’s are somewhat warp based themselves… which isn’t the same as resurrecting a 10,000 year old corpse 

 

Sanguinius’ story arc is one of the truly great and corner stone moments in the lore, it’s a founding myth of the Imperium, his knowing sacrifice at the cost of everything for a greater purpose. It also sets up the entire Blood Angels “tragic heroes” Twin flaws aspect which would be completely destroyed if he’s brought back 

 

On 10/23/2023 at 6:59 PM, spessmarine said:

I was unsure about including Manus. Yeah dying is basically what he is known for, but not in a character arc sort of way like the other three. Less essential to his being more so making him the butt of jokes. Though, a lot of this stems from being borderline the forgotten/unloved legion

It’s THE character arc of his legion though, it’s had arguably as much affect on the IH as Sanguinius’ deaths had on the BA, it’s moulded they’re entire ethos on weakness and purging of said weakness for 10000 years warping them into some of the most mentally deranged chapters in 40K 

 

“The flesh is weak! But trauma is strong” 

[chapter master 454]

I've said my version several times and it seems if my version was done, it really would put a lot more threat to the Tyranids coming.

Primaris can get put in as the "secret project" gulliman had ordered with cawl, but his revival wouldn't of been this Deus Ex Machina. I would of had the 1st company of the Ultramarines wiped to the last man, Tigerius dies to revive Gulliman as his last act who then stands up to face Abbadon who despite his power doesn't match Gulliman while his Legionnaires are now panicked along with reinforcements not far behind and so Abbadon teleports out. This would set-up Gulliman's return and his first order of business is sorting out Chaos and for this he reveals his secret project which some would call him out on for attempting to make his own Imperium but considering the dire straits, no-one complains. We still get Primaris, got to sell models.

This would then echo down to the present with the Tyranids attacking, the Ultramarines having legit claim to being front and centre against their most hated enemy but not without Tigerius they are finding themselves unable to keep up as well, lamenting his loss and Gulliman being completely dumbfounded by this new threat he has had no time to learn about because of dealing with Chaos and thousands of other things. Perhaps having the chapter even see their primarch as somewhat flawed as he struggles to manage this, Calgar however being a point of support; understanding the weight of fighting the unknown enemy, remembering his first campaign against the Tyranids and the losses they suffered. A moment where Gulliman has to defer for once which would be within his whole system of advisors. Calgar instead being the lead figure against the Tyranids along with Cassius returning from the Deathwatch to his Chapter to aid in this (because why would he stick with the Anti-Xenos group when his chapter needs him. Deathwatch care about any Xenos, he would only care about Tyranids). Even make it a grand excuse for him to cross the Rubicon if you want.

 

The Lion should of been foreshadowed a lot more. Fallen showing up claiming to have been forgiven and aiding the Dark Angels but keeping at arms reach, saying they have met their Primarch. This would irritate the Dark Angels no end as these Fallen are far more slippery than the usual...they seem to appear and disappear, and reports have sightings of a mysterious figure with them that they by typical measure believe is Cypher due to "bearing a sword" is all the reports have. We keep progressing until the Dark Angels are brought into conflict with Angron, who has been causing a massive mess and so as they were in the neighbourhood (hunting for Fallen as they do), they take to the fight. Maybe sprinkle in some Fallen here-say being that they baited Angron here to cause damage to the Dark Angels.

This would lead to us having the Dark Angels getting their head panned in hard at first. The World Eaters came to play and Angron parties hard, even against the best. Then a group of Fallen show up, the ones who claim to be forgiven and leading them to the utter shock and disbelief of all is Lion El' Johnson, bearing a new sword and shield. The sword isn't the famous one but people can't help but find the shield out of place; golden beyond golden and emits an aura of power not felt by any before...except Angron and a select few World Eaters who are veterans from long ago: that shield holds the essence of the Emperor.

We get the duel between Angron and Lion, where the duel is only won by Lion due to the shield giving him that edge over the daemonic portion of Angron who is in a blind rage against this individual who carries the air of the Emperor. The conclusion would have the Lion finally meet his Legion, stating the reason for not returning to them first was that more pressing matters were in need of attending other than a reunion and elaborates on the Forgiven, thus allowing them back into the chapter full and aiding against foes with their experience. He does however hand over a select few he has dealt with, dead already "as they could never be forgiven". Again a sudden return but the Lion was never truly mortally wounded from my knowledge and more having an really good nap.

 

The issues all stem from rushing the end or inventing solutions not needed. Corax will come back all perfectly fine and well because he snuck into Cawls lab, found his Primaris recipe and then mixed that with his Raptor recipe that he had now fixed and now he's all better! Then again, that's implementing actual lore...I need to invent completely new things entirely with no prior history so we can retcon that in somewhere hamfisted.

[ZeroWolf]

14 minutes ago, chapter master 454 said:

I've said my version several times and it seems if my version was done, it really would put a lot more threat to the Tyranids coming.

Primaris can get put in as the "secret project" gulliman had ordered with cawl, but his revival wouldn't of been this Deus Ex Machina. I would of had the 1st company of the Ultramarines wiped to the last man, Tigerius dies to revive Gulliman as his last act who then stands up to face Abbadon who despite his power doesn't match Gulliman while his Legionnaires are now panicked along with reinforcements not far behind and so Abbadon teleports out. This would set-up Gulliman's return and his first order of business is sorting out Chaos and for this he reveals his secret project which some would call him out on for attempting to make his own Imperium but considering the dire straits, no-one complains. We still get Primaris, got to sell models.

This would then echo down to the present with the Tyranids attacking, the Ultramarines having legit claim to being front and centre against their most hated enemy but not without Tigerius they are finding themselves unable to keep up as well, lamenting his loss and Gulliman being completely dumbfounded by this new threat he has had no time to learn about because of dealing with Chaos and thousands of other things. Perhaps having the chapter even see their primarch as somewhat flawed as he struggles to manage this, Calgar however being a point of support; understanding the weight of fighting the unknown enemy, remembering his first campaign against the Tyranids and the losses they suffered. A moment where Gulliman has to defer for once which would be within his whole system of advisors. Calgar instead being the lead figure against the Tyranids along with Cassius returning from the Deathwatch to his Chapter to aid in this (because why would he stick with the Anti-Xenos group when his chapter needs him. Deathwatch care about any Xenos, he would only care about Tyranids). Even make it a grand excuse for him to cross the Rubicon if you want.

 

The Lion should of been foreshadowed a lot more. Fallen showing up claiming to have been forgiven and aiding the Dark Angels but keeping at arms reach, saying they have met their Primarch. This would irritate the Dark Angels no end as these Fallen are far more slippery than the usual...they seem to appear and disappear, and reports have sightings of a mysterious figure with them that they by typical measure believe is Cypher due to "bearing a sword" is all the reports have. We keep progressing until the Dark Angels are brought into conflict with Angron, who has been causing a massive mess and so as they were in the neighbourhood (hunting for Fallen as they do), they take to the fight. Maybe sprinkle in some Fallen here-say being that they baited Angron here to cause damage to the Dark Angels.

This would lead to us having the Dark Angels getting their head panned in hard at first. The World Eaters came to play and Angron parties hard, even against the best. Then a group of Fallen show up, the ones who claim to be forgiven and leading them to the utter shock and disbelief of all is Lion El' Johnson, bearing a new sword and shield. The sword isn't the famous one but people can't help but find the shield out of place; golden beyond golden and emits an aura of power not felt by any before...except Angron and a select few World Eaters who are veterans from long ago: that shield holds the essence of the Emperor.

We get the duel between Angron and Lion, where the duel is only won by Lion due to the shield giving him that edge over the daemonic portion of Angron who is in a blind rage against this individual who carries the air of the Emperor. The conclusion would have the Lion finally meet his Legion, stating the reason for not returning to them first was that more pressing matters were in need of attending other than a reunion and elaborates on the Forgiven, thus allowing them back into the chapter full and aiding against foes with their experience. He does however hand over a select few he has dealt with, dead already "as they could never be forgiven". Again a sudden return but the Lion was never truly mortally wounded from my knowledge and more having an really good nap.

 

The issues all stem from rushing the end or inventing solutions not needed. Corax will come back all perfectly fine and well because he snuck into Cawls lab, found his Primaris recipe and then mixed that with his Raptor recipe that he had now fixed and now he's all better! Then again, that's implementing actual lore...I need to invent completely new things entirely with no prior history so we can retcon that in somewhere hamfisted.

Valrak shared some new lore about Crovax that hints that GW might have already retconned that anyway. The new lore comes from the First Founding book that came out a few months back.

[phandaal]

42 minutes ago, chapter master 454 said:

The issues all stem from rushing the end or inventing solutions not needed.

 

I think some of the issues stem from the Primarchs not really being a part of the 40k setting. They are part of 30k, which is a different setting.

 

For reference, the oldest known megaliths on Earth were built something like 10,000 years ago, and the last ice age ended something like 12,000 years ago.

 

That is what the time distance between the Primarchs and the modern 40k setting was supposed to feel like.

 

Many people do enjoy the new setting, but when you start pulling the "old" universe forwards into the "new" one, some things are bound to break no matter how you go about it.

[Rain]

2 hours ago, phandaal said:

 

I think some of the issues stem from the Primarchs not really being a part of the 40k setting. They are part of 30k, which is a different setting.

 

For reference, the oldest known megaliths on Earth were built something like 10,000 years ago, and the last ice age ended something like 12,000 years ago.

 

That is what the time distance between the Primarchs and the modern 40k setting was supposed to feel like.

 

Many people do enjoy the new setting, but when you start pulling the "old" universe forwards into the "new" one, some things are bound to break no matter how you go about it.

Yes. There’s also the fact that the way that primarchs are presented in the fiction is very similar to superheroes. They quip, they perform silly feats like holding up the feet of titans with their bare hands, or killing titans by throwing spears at them; and they can’t be meaningfully hurt except by other primarchs.

 

It’s not very grim or dark, which was the original theme of 40k. Grim, dark, with a side of black humor. The primarchs were barely remembered (and possibly exaggerated) heroes of old who can’t help anyone anymore. Now they are the Avengers.

[LSM]

Idle thought: Leman Russ comes back, and he looks like the art from Rogue Trader.

Spoiler

 

[OttoVonAwesome]

Grim dark 40k died with 7th edition. It's 42k now just how it is and the stakes are higher and the hero's are bigger and the end times prophecy that's been apart of the setting for a really really long time is playing out and that always meant the Primarch's returning. There's people that wanted the story to progress well this is what we get and if you ask me it's better than being stuck in Abbadon's 13th black crusade for 15 years. If they didn't start coming back then the Tyranids and Necrons and Chaos and returning immortal :cuss: daemon Primarchs aren't really a threat cuase none of the living Primarch's are returning to stop them so it's not the endtimes that Russ or Vulkan or the cabal had predicted is it? Saying Primarch's aren't part of the setting is false cuase they were always looming large in the background and the evil ones didn't go anywhere. They were always going to return and it was always just a matter of when. Calgar, and Azreal and Dante all did their part let's let em take a break, someone has to kick Angron's ass and it certainly wasn't gonna be Belial as cool as he is.

 

The Space Marines we grew up with aren't even the same anymore so it's well past time of lamenting the loss of the stagnant never changing ever grim 40k that doesn't exist anymore and maybe start hoping the Age of Darkness brand covers more than just the Heresy in the future. Hopefully GW does too cuase there's nothing wierder than them redo'ing famous battle reports in 10th edition with Primaris marines like the Battle of Macragge. 

[KaosRaptor]

(I'm not 100% up-to-date on some recent lore so I apologise in advance for any mistakes or misunderstandings.)

 

As a follower of the Black Legion and a lover of a certain loyalist chapter that, until recently, had an unknown heritage, I'm not a huge fan of the Primarchs in general so I may be a tad biased. But I'm curious as to what people who want the Primarchs back are hoping to see exactly?

 

Is it Primarch v Primarch showdowns? This I don't understand, they have no stakes. Two super-powered beings beating the snot out of each other doesn't seem particularly exciting, especially when it seems terribly unlikely that GW will kill either of the combatants off (why would you remove a major money-making character model from the setting, after all). And if they die just to come back because of Emperor-hand-waving-magic after death, then there are zero stakes at all. Oh no Guilliman died! How will the Ultramarines and the Imperium recover from this grievous loss?

 

Oh the Emperor brought him back to life, never mind.

 

There's no excitement when the readers know how it's going to play out. Worst you'll see is a Chaos Primarch being banished.

 

You remember what happened in the fight between Abaddon and Calgar on Vigilus right? Abaddon had that man dead to rights and GW still couldn't pull the trigger and end him (granted Calgar had a new model. But then why even write this story in the first place? The name of the chapter in the book was even Demise of a Legend for crying out loud!). If they're not willing to do it with an old character who has essentially been replaced by his Primarch, I don't see them doing it with a Primarch proper.

 

Spoilers for The Emperor's Gift, I guess:

Spoiler

You know what was great about the battle against Angron? You had no clue if the Grey Knights would survive. They were the best of the best (at the time. Forget about Custodes and Primaris) and there was still no guarantee any of them would come out of that battle. Angron's fate was a forgone conclusion for anyone who knew the lore of Armageddon, but that didn't make the battle any less exciting because you still had no idea what the cost of victory would be. They got slaughtered and barely scraped together what could be called a win against impossible odds. That is what the setting is about.

 

Is it interactions between Primarchs on the same side? Having them get together just makes the galaxy seem so much smaller and risks treading into Star Wars "Skywalker family" territory. Not everything needs to be all about them. What happened to warp travel spitting you out in the completely wrong location fifty years in the past? How would they even meet up?

Not to mention having two or more of your best generals/combatants in one spot seems like an incredible waste of resources when the whole galaxy is in flames and means authors have to do more book-keeping just to keep track of which Primarch is where so that one isn't somehow talking to his brother on this side of the galaxy when he's also fighting a battle on that side of the galaxy.

 

And bringing dead Primarchs back? Nah not for me. 10,000 years of beliefs and tradition for their legions/chapters would have to be tossed out the window and rewritten from the ground up. The loss of their Primarchs makes them who they are in the 40k setting.

Though most of the Night Lords probably wouldn't even care if Curze was around, and if Horus came back the Black Legion would absolutely lynch him. No way they're letting that failure live again.

 

The only reason I'm okay with some (not all) of the Chaos Primarchs coming back is because they're typically seen as the antagonists and have been mentioned as being active in the 40k era. Most stories are told through the Imperium's eyes after all. By having monstrous foes to fight, if the story is well written then you can make your protagonists more heroic (See The Emperor's Gift spoilers above). Have Space Marines, with all their training, equipment, tactics, abilities and beliefs, be the underdogs because the galaxy they're up against is just that horrific.

 

Whew, rant over.

TL;DR: keep Primarchs in 30k please.

[Karhedron]

20 minutes ago, KaosRaptor said:

But I'm curious as to what people who want the Primarchs back are hoping to see exactly?

 

It is not just the Primarchs returning, I have been keen to see the 40K setting progress again. I started playing way back in 1st edition and to me, 40K always felt like an ongoing storyline that we as players could take part in. 40K 2nd edition was launched with a battrep between Blood Angels and Orks in which the BA Captain was killed by a psychic attack from a Weirdboy (although the after-battle report said that he had actually just about survived). A couple of years later and the Angels of Death codex came out with Captain Tycho, complete with half-mask, backstory relating to that Battrep and special rules hating Orks. It felt like the universe was progressing.

 

That was by no means an isolated example. 40Ks first named special characters were Yarrick and Ghazkull and they were used to tell the tale of the 2nd war for Armageddon. Fats forwarding to 3rd edition and GW ran the Armageddon 3 campaign. Both characters received shiny new models and the conflict was used to detail several new sub-factions including the Salamanders.

 

Then we had the Necrons released as a proper faction (rather than a piratical raiding force) and 40K took a dabble in eldritch horror as the C'tan were linked to all sorts of shenanigans. Then we had The Big One, the 13th Black Crusde. This felt like a culmination of a decade's worth of storytelling. This was the 13th Black Crusade, the apex of Abaddon's efforts to break out of the Cadian Gate (the previous war in the Gothic Sector was retrospectively declared the 12th). This picked up so many storylines such as the Blackstone Fortresses, the Guard's defence of Cadia, Eldrad's attempts to stop Abaddon, even the reappearance of the Wulfen. This was played out as a massive worldwide campaign and GW promised that the outcome would set the direction for 40K lore for the next edition.

 

The results rolled in. Chaos did well on the ground but overall the Imperium won a narrow victory, partially due to winning more battles of Battlefleet Gothic and thus maintaining control of the space lanes. The Eldar kicked Ahriman and the Thousand Sons out of the webway and even managed to recapture the long lost Crone World of Belial IV. Maugen Ra's lost Craftworld of Altansar emerged from the Eye of Terror to tip the balance. These were all huge developments and it looked like 4th edition was going to do massive things with the story to reflect this. My friends and I waited with baited breath to see what would happen next.

 

And the answer was, NOTHING! 4th edition arrived and the storyline was frozen. There was no conclusion to the 13th Black Crusade, the clock was stopped at 5 minutes to midnight with Cadia still balanced on a knife-edge. None of the developments before and during the campaign let anywhere. The only piece of fluff that offered any sort of resolution was a short story published in White Dwarf where they killed off Eldrad as he attempted to take control of a Blackstone Fortress from Abaddon. All the storylines established during the Campaigns were simply abandoned.

 

Looking back after nearly 20 years, it is hard to overstate just how disappointed most of us were with this. The 40K storyline was effectively killed at the start of 4th edition with all the stories that came out after that point being either historical or side-quests. The galaxy was frozen and unchanging. Even the codices stopped shedding more light on their respective factions in favour of just rehashing the existing lore again and again. I pretty much lost interest in the lore side of 40K and just looked at it as a gaming system.

 

4th, 5th, 6th and 7th editions rolled around with GW refusing to touch the status quo. It was not until the very end of 7th edition that the return of Magnus and then the Gathering Storm campaign actually started to move things forward again. I had dropped out of 40K by this point and was playing other systems such as X-Wing but the return of Primarchs to the 40K setting and finally getting to see the resolution of the 13th Black Crusade (as well as other plot lines such as the awakening of Ynnead) rekindled my interest. I have been playing 40K and following the lore against since the start of 8th edition with much more interest than during 4th-7th. 

 

I guess this is a long-winded way of answering your question but what I want to see from the returning Primarchs is progression. I know that neither Chaos nor the Imperium will win any decisive battles at the galaxy-wide level because to do so would destroy the setting. But I want to see the storyline progress. I want to see what happens next and feel like my own games are part of that grand narrative. I lost interest with 40K when GW gave up on a decade's worth of storytelling and turned it in a static setting for 4 editions. I am grateful that this has finally been dropped and the storyline has been allowed to progress again.

[Domhnall]

Ignoring whether I think these would a good idea or not (I do not think they are a good idea), I could think of a few ways in which the dead dead primarchs could come back.

1. Spectral/etherial being type thing much like the Legion of the Damned, summoned now that the proper (like, proper) end times are here. 

2. Cloning/technological/hand-wavium resurrection.

3. 'Spirit' captured and placed in a new form. 

4. Magical stitching thread that heals all broken wounds.

5. Aha! I faked my death, and I have been performing special missions ever since! 

6. It was all a dream. 

 

Not keen on any of them, but it's not like GW have never pushed a dodgy narrative before, and if they want to make all Primarchs return, they will find a way. 

[Jscarlos18]

The Primarchs returning is innevitable, and looking at GW's track record this past few editions it's clear that it will be in campaigns at the end of the editions.

 

I'm worried about the xenos factions and their characters. LoV arrived in 9th but they still have no lore beside their codex and snippets from Kill Team. Lion had a novel already written the moment he was announced. The Silent King has only White Dwarf lore. The disparity will only increase for every new Primarch added to 40k.

 

The storyline will advance, but only for IoM and Chaos in any meaningful way. The moment a Loyalist Primarch steps in front of a xenos character we know they will win without problem.

 

Ghazghkull, the most important and strongest Ork character in 40k, was easily defeated by Ragnar. Khaine loses so many times that it has stopped being an accomplishment to kill him, Phoenix Lords are treated like fodder, Ynnari had their storyline cut with a pathetic ending and Yvraine has been relegated to trophy-wife and arm candy for Guilliman by the fandom (because Hive Mind forbid the women in 40k have any agency of their own)...

 

The list goes on, so don't know how GW pretends to make us xenos fans to care for our favourite factions and characters if that's the way they treat them.

Edited October 24, 2023 by Jscarlos18