It's possible for all of the Primarchs to be brought back

[Kallas]

Any and every ressurection cheapens and weakens the story of that sacrifice. The whole point of a noble/heroic sacrifice (or an ostensibly noble/heroic sacrifice) is that they are giving up their life in defence of an ideal/individual that they feel is worth dying for; when ressurection happens, it makes that decision to sacrifice worth less.

 

Sanguinius' death is one of the most poignant in the setting because he also has the gift of foresight: he saw his death, knew the price he had to pay and still paid it, it's why it's one of the more notable ones. Bringing him back - even though they absolutely can do that - cheapens the moment, and arguably the setting as a whole which is predicated on the Emperor's incapacitation but ultimate victory at the cost of his greatest, most beloved son. 

 

But really it boils down to:

1. Can they bring back every Primarch? Yes, they can write in whatever contrived loophole they want to for any of them, even the fully, 100% confirmed dead ones like Sanguinius.
2. Should they bring back every Primarich? Probably not; as above, some of their deaths are pivotal to elements of the setting (Sanguinius' death has massive repurcussions for his bloodline; Ferrus' death means he cannot correct their machine-over-flesh descent and is a huge reason why the Iron Hands become who they are in the modern Imperium; and so on)
3. Will they bring back every Primarch? Maybe. Some, they absolutely will because it's cash money straight into their pockets without having to put any thought into the matter. If they want to respect their creation and not descend into schlocky storylines, then they wouldn't bring back the dead-dead ones at least; but if their driving imperative is moneymoneymoney at all costs, then they'll absolutely bring back every single one, because they'll be able to make a mint off of every single one.

So yeah. GW can bring any Primarchs back if they want to. They shouldn't, but they probably will - maybe not all at once, and probably not in the span of a couple of years, but whether they do or not probably boils down to whether creative types can hold a postion of setting/story integrity over corporate money grubbing that would demand they do so because it's easy money.

[DemonGSides]

Just make the Sanguinor just the spirit of Sanguinius and it does the job.  I don't want a 40k version of The Lion or Gulliman for my BA, but a Primarch sized or close to version of the Sanguinor on an epic looking base would be cool enough for me.

I like the sacrifice part.  Not all the Primarchs on the good side sacrificed themselves, most just flamed out or disappeared or whatever.  Like Kallas said, the sacrifice IS the point.

That being said, GW gonna GW. I'm interested in Sanguinius 2.0 for HH; the first version was not as bad as some people lament it to be; in person it's pretty cool, but it's also not exactly what I'm looking for; a more heroic pose would be cool as well, then people could choose which side of the BA coin they want their Sanguinius to embody, the beautiful murder or the heroic.

[Marshal Rohr]

2 hours ago, DemonGSides said:

Just make the Sanguinor just the spirit of Sanguinius and it does the job.  I don't want a 40k version of The Lion or Gulliman for my BA, but a Primarch sized or close to version of the Sanguinor on an epic looking base would be cool enough for me.

I like the sacrifice part.  Not all the Primarchs on the good side sacrificed themselves, most just flamed out or disappeared or whatever.  Like Kallas said, the sacrifice IS the point.

That being said, GW gonna GW. I'm interested in Sanguinius 2.0 for HH; the first version was not as bad as some people lament it to be; in person it's pretty cool, but it's also not exactly what I'm looking for; a more heroic pose would be cool as well, then people could choose which side of the BA coin they want their Sanguinius to embody, the beautiful murder or the heroic.

That’s not what Sanguinius will be when GW brings him back. It’ll be memed to death Vampire cliches and a cool model. The brought back Guilliman and he became a caricature of his administrator memes. They brought back the Lion and he’s a caricature of the Dark Angel secret squirrel memes. What is the Blood Angels over done and dead horse theme? Vampirism. We will be lucky if he isn’t resurrected as Death Company Sanguinius where he is just reliving his fight with Horus for eternity because someone somewhere thinks that’s a good way to do it. 

[Karhedron]

8 hours ago, Marshal Rohr said:

That’s not what Sanguinius will be when GW brings him back. It’ll be memed to death Vampire cliches and a cool model. The brought back Guilliman and he became a caricature of his administrator memes. They brought back the Lion and he’s a caricature of the Dark Angel secret squirrel memes.

 

I don't think so, both the model and storyline for Guilliman lean more into his "Avenging Son" characterisation. He would love to get more into actually rebuilding the Imperium but he knows that what the Imperium needs now is its Lord Commander, a soldier rather than an administrator. In fact the only administrating he has really done is reassembling the 500 worlds of Ultramar and that is shown to be very much a side-project.

 

Lion'el Johnson is also not leaning particularly hard into DA memes. He has only got one novel so far so there is work to be done but he actually seems to be working on opening up rather than doubling down on secrets. He is actively gathering the Fallen to seek out those who are worthy of forgiveness. Also his chosen mission seems to be a monster hunter. He is not trying to rebuild the 1st legion in secret, he is going out and helping Imperium Nihilus by finding the biggest threats he can and taking them out (starting with Angron).

 

I would say the two loyalist Primarchs released so far have both been reasonably well handled with clichés avoided and some interesting  character development. Guilliman is even dabbling in the faith despite his avowed atheism. A sample size of 2 may not be a huge dataset to draw from but I think GW will avoid anything too obvious and cheesy like giant Wulfen-Russ or Vampire Sanguinius.

[Marshal Rohr]

We will certainly see who turns out to be correct!

[Antarius]

As has already been said a couple of times, yes, it is absolutely possible for them to bring everyone back. Whether it is likely is another story.

Even assuming the worst (in the sense of "they won't care how stupid it seems, it'll still make them money"), I still think there is a ways to go before we see the more far-fetched scenarios (i.e. the very explicitly dead primarchs returning). A realistic somewhat worst-case scenario seems to be that they'll give us roughly two primarchs every edition, one loyalist and one traitor. So, assuming a two-year edition cycle churn, there's still 8-10 years worth of loyalist primarch releases before they "need" to start bringing back the obviously dead ones (depending on how obviously dead you feel Dorn is, I guess).

 

Whether it is desirable is entirely subjective and completely without bearing on what will actually happen - and I'm honestly surprised that some people don't seem to get that. I mean, I personally think bringing any loyalist primarchs back was a mistake (not to mention "advancing" the storyline a couple of hundred years, with almost every named character still somehow being alive and still functionally the same age...), but I'm not so deluded that I thinkt that particular genie can be put back in the bottle.

The best you can do is create the stories you want. If you like old 40K, just pretend all this new-fangled stuff didn't happen; if you want Sanguinius to return, build (or 3d print) him and go nuts. It's your hobby, after all; you should do what makes you happy.

Edited November 5, 2023 by Antarius

[Indy Techwisp]

I see we're still talking about this.

I can only really see one almost confirmed returning Primarch: Daemon Fulgrim once EC finally split off from CSM.

 

For speculative returning Primarchs (or Primarch-likes):

Blood Angels getting their own Codex means they probably need another unique model or two and the Sanguinor is getting pretty old IIRC. Could boost that up as their Primarch-like since Sanguinius is dead.

 

Khan is still joyriding in the Webway somewhere, so he could easily be brought back simply by him just... leaving it.

No Honour-Quest like Russ or Fetch-Quest Summoning like Vulkan, man's just needs to take the next sliproad off the Motorway and head home.

 

Lorgar is still "around", but I doubt he or Corvus Corax are hitting the Tabletop any time soon 'cause they're otherwise engaged (with annoying eachother).

[Cenobite Terminator]

After Fulgrim is released Pertrabo could be next and has ascended. Could be interesting to see what happens with Curze.

[Scribe]

3 hours ago, milddead said:

After Fulgrim is released Pertrabo could be next and has ascended. Could be interesting to see what happens with Curze.

 

A headless model would be innovative for sure.

[Cenobite Terminator]

That was totally LOLZ. Same can be said for Ferrus.

[Marshal Rohr]

3 hours ago, Scribe said:

 

A headless model would be innovative for sure.

Cue the Guy Haley tie in novel

 

”Konrad, you’re shorter than I remember? Finally get a haircut?”

 

*muffled wind pipe gurgling* ”just a little off the top!”

[spessmarine]

Speculating, primarch releases coinciding with faction releases seems normal. Though, Lion a little premature for the DA alleged release.

Makes them less one-off releases.

 

Could maybe see Fulgrim late 2024 with EC, then who knows maybe Russ and a SW refresh early 2026 to round out the expected primarch releases, per Hastings was it.

After that we've hit 2027-2028 or basically 5 years out before we get to the exciting stuff, unexpected primarchs. And that's assuming a small-ish 1-2 year buffer.

 

Basically, long story short. GW leaning in with their darlings, but it'll be a slow boil.

 

On 11/5/2023 at 6:27 PM, Marshal Rohr said:

Cue the Guy Haley tie in novel

 

”Konrad, you’re shorter than I remember? Finally get a haircut?”

 

*muffled wind pipe gurgling* ”just a little off the top!”

 

Might as well lean in all the way with NL as the Halloween goofs with Kurze the Headless Horseman.

[Jagus Kumkani]

On 10/26/2023 at 6:14 PM, phandaal said:

 

Okay, but the lore did move forward. It has been for years now. Does it keep moving forward nonstop now that it started, or do we come to another point where it is a setting again?

 

 

This is a 40k message board where people talk about their opinions on 40k things. So, in the context of this forum there really aren't bigger fish to fry.

I mean if that makes you feel better about, okay. 

It should keep moving forward nonstop. It was the the same point for literal decades until they decided to move it along. Why stop now? The setting/hobby is more popular than ever. 

[Marshal Rohr]

1 hour ago, Jagus Kumkani said:

I mean if that makes you feel better about, okay. 

It should keep moving forward nonstop. It was the the same point for literal decades until they decided to move it along. Why stop now? The setting/hobby is more popular than ever. 

“Why stop?”

 

The Brand is Warhammer 40,000 not Warhammer 40,250 or whatever they retconned the date to be. It has to stop moving the timeline forward. It’s literally in the name. You gonna go see the Star Peace movie? Play Call of Duty but your character never joined the military and works in an office? It has to be a setting and not a story. 

[Arkangilos]

On 10/28/2023 at 9:02 AM, Inquisitor_Lensoven said:

archangel Michael-biblical angels aren’t human-ish in form, doesn’t have a people to particularly care about, not the son of god, didn’t sacrifice himself.

Micheal is referred to as an angel of the highest rank, which would be ophanim. In the Bible these are described as being several wheels with many eyes on each wheel. This sounds nothing like sanguinius. Ophanim are also known as the guardians of god’s throne…which sounds more like custodies 

There is a lot wrong with this, and some good with it. First, we have to consider the cultural influence (Catholicism (specifically Medieval Catholicism) and Anglicanism). 
 

First: In Christian theology, specifically Western Catholicism, the Seraphim are the highest (which Satan was), and they did *not* look like wheels, that would be the Thrones (what you called Ophanim) which are the third highest. The only vision they are described in they show up with both the Seraphim and the Cherubim (Cherubim are the second highest, and aren’t the babies). We see this with Sanguinius being amongst the highest of the primarchs.
 

Second: Angels appeared in a multitude of ways for specific purposes. For instance, St. Michael is regarded as a Seraphim, but appears as a man when he speaks to the Holy Prophet Daniel, and appears as a man in the Revelation of St. John. We see this depiction in the model of Sanguinius (the forgeworld model is literally a take on St. Michael vanquishing Satan).

 

Third: St. Michael the Archangel (which in Catholicism has a special feast day called Michaelmas, or the Feast of St. Michael the Archangel, complete with its own fasting period), in which we commemorate his several offices: the protector of humanity from Satan (seen in our St. Michael prayer), the calling away from evil, the protector of God’s Chosen, and the deliverer of souls to the their judgment. We see Sanguinius do all of these things (with specific rules and lore for each one).
 

Finally: Jesus is the son of God, but in Christian theology He is *also* God. Where as Sanguinius is *not* also the emperor. He is a creation of the Emperor, just as St. Michael, prince of angels, is just a creation of the Emperor.

 

Yes, there is a lot of bleed over, but it isn’t a cut and dry as “He is 40K Jesus”. It is a “He is basically a mix of Jesus and St. Michael” with the main “Jesus” part being the communion (drinking his blood from the Chalice). 

 

Edited November 8, 2023 by Arkangilos

[Karhedron]

2 hours ago, Marshal Rohr said:

The Brand is Warhammer 40,000 not Warhammer 40,250 or whatever they retconned the date to be. It has to stop moving the timeline forward. It’s literally in the name. You gonna go see the Star Peace movie? Play Call of Duty but your character never joined the military and works in an office? It has to be a setting and not a story. 

 

That is very much in the eye of the beholder. 40K always used to be both a setting and a story. There was a steady progression of events up until around the end of 3rd edition and the 13th Black Crusade. It was only at the start of 4th edition that the clock got frozen at "5 minutes to midnight" and the storyline stopped advancing. 4th-7th editions were actually a lot less interesting to me as a result of this stasis. I continued to play the game but I ceased to actually follow the fluff in any meaningful way. Codices just continually rehashed older lore while novels just told substories within the existing setting.

 

When the storyline actually started progressing again at the end of 7th with Curse of Magnus and then Gathering Storm it was great return to form. After more than a decade of stagnation, GW actually started using some of those plot hooks they ad been planting again. Do I care that it is now technically set in the 42nd millennium rather than the 41st? Not really. The static, unchanging setting painted GW into a corner to some extent in terms of new models. Every time Marines got a new unit in 4th-7th, people used to complain. GW had established that the Imperium didn't really innovate anymore so there should not be new units created. If they had "always been there" how come they had never been shown before? I know Primaris may not be everyone's cup of tea but I much prefer the situation since 8th edition where the story progresses and new units and developments feel like part of a greater ongoing narrative.

[Marshal Rohr]

You understand Gathering Storm and the Magnus books sucked right? Absolutely nothing like a return to form. Gathering Storm was written as novel, did you ever read it? 

[Karhedron]

13 minutes ago, Marshal Rohr said:

You understand Gathering Storm and the Magnus books sucked right? Absolutely nothing like a return to form. Gathering Storm was written as novel, did you ever read it? 

 

No, but I enjoyed the 2nd and 3rd instalments of the Dark Imperium trilogy as well as The Great Work.

 

I would still rather have an evolving storyline. Even if it does have a few sub-par entries along the way, it is far preferable to the stagnation we endured for years with the same stories endlessly rehashed.

[phandaal]

7 hours ago, Jagus Kumkani said:

I mean if that makes you feel better about, okay.

 

Assuming that talking about 40k on a 40k hobby forum is something that one even needs to find a way to feel better about. It is not.

 

It is OK to be OK with what GW is doing to the setting, or even to think it is great. It is also OK to think the opposite.

 

What is not OK is making snide implications that people who disagree with your take are somehow unaware that Warhammer 40k is not the only thing that exists in the world. That nonsense has no place here or anywhere else.

[Marshal Rohr]

2 hours ago, Karhedron said:

 

No, but I enjoyed the 2nd and 3rd instalments of the Dark Imperium trilogy as well as The Great Work.

 

I would still rather have an evolving storyline. Even if it does have a few sub-par entries along the way, it is far preferable to the stagnation we endured for years with the same stories endlessly rehashed.

The same stories endlessly rehashed? You mean like Guilliman discovering a major threat before confronting it and nothing resolving? Because that’s happened with the Death Guard, the Silent King, and now the Tyranids every year since the plot started moving forward. 

[Helias_Tancred]

They're all coming back eventually (except possibly Horus?)

 

These are the reasons why:

 

1. Bringing back the primarchs, loyalist and traitor, is very profitable for GW.

2. Overall it motivates the player base, brings people back to the game, keeps people in the game, and all of that = profits.

3. Provides more options and fodder (for the writers) to continue the storyline. Continuing/developing/advancing storyline (lore) overall = profits. 

4. Drives Black Library production, which once again = profits.

 

Now they may continue to slow walk this? Or not? That's debatable. But make no mistake they're all coming back and if Sanguinius remains dead like Horus, there will be a fragment of him that returns in a new Sanguinor model and lore IMO. In essence one way or another he will be back too.

 

I know some of you feel very strongly against this, you have valid reasons and I understand your points, but you know what trumps that? GW's profits. They're all coming back.

 

[Kastor Krieg]

On 11/4/2023 at 5:56 PM, Marshal Rohr said:

After seeing what Horus does to Sanguinius in end and the Death it’s really inevitable he’s getting resurrected. 40K has moved for parody to serious to parody of itself. 

It's rather what happens with Sang leading up to that fight, that indicates that "it's possible for all of the primarchs to be brought back" indeed.

[Kastor Krieg]

On 11/5/2023 at 2:02 AM, Marshal Rohr said:

That’s not what Sanguinius will be when GW brings him back. It’ll be memed to death Vampire cliches and a cool model. The brought back Guilliman and he became a caricature of his administrator memes. They brought back the Lion and he’s a caricature of the Dark Angel secret squirrel memes. What is the Blood Angels over done and dead horse theme? Vampirism. We will be lucky if he isn’t resurrected as Death Company Sanguinius where he is just reliving his fight with Horus for eternity because someone somewhere thinks that’s a good way to do it. 

That would be a cool way to do it. 

And? :D

[Marshal Rohr]

9 minutes ago, Kastor Krieg said:

That would be a cool way to do it. 

And? :D

“This is the skin of a killer, Roboute”

[Inquisitor_Lensoven]

On 11/4/2023 at 2:34 PM, Kallas said:

Any and every ressurection cheapens and weakens the story of that sacrifice. The whole point of a noble/heroic sacrifice (or an ostensibly noble/heroic sacrifice) is that they are giving up their life in defence of an ideal/individual that they feel is worth dying for; when ressurection happens, it makes that decision to sacrifice worth less.

 

Sanguinius' death is one of the most poignant in the setting because he also has the gift of foresight: he saw his death, knew the price he had to pay and still paid it, it's why it's one of the more notable ones. Bringing him back - even though they absolutely can do that - cheapens the moment, and arguably the setting as a whole which is predicated on the Emperor's incapacitation but ultimate victory at the cost of his greatest, most beloved son. 

 

But really it boils down to:

1. Can they bring back every Primarch? Yes, they can write in whatever contrived loophole they want to for any of them, even the fully, 100% confirmed dead ones like Sanguinius.
2. Should they bring back every Primarich? Probably not; as above, some of their deaths are pivotal to elements of the setting (Sanguinius' death has massive repurcussions for his bloodline; Ferrus' death means he cannot correct their machine-over-flesh descent and is a huge reason why the Iron Hands become who they are in the modern Imperium; and so on)
3. Will they bring back every Primarch? Maybe. Some, they absolutely will because it's cash money straight into their pockets without having to put any thought into the matter. If they want to respect their creation and not descend into schlocky storylines, then they wouldn't bring back the dead-dead ones at least; but if their driving imperative is moneymoneymoney at all costs, then they'll absolutely bring back every single one, because they'll be able to make a mint off of every single one.

So yeah. GW can bring any Primarchs back if they want to. They shouldn't, but they probably will - maybe not all at once, and probably not in the span of a couple of years, but whether they do or not probably boils down to whether creative types can hold a postion of setting/story integrity over corporate money grubbing that would demand they do so because it's easy money.

Resurrection doesn’t cheapen the sacrifice, unless the person self sacrificing knows they will be or can be resurrected later.

On 11/4/2023 at 9:02 PM, Marshal Rohr said:

That’s not what Sanguinius will be when GW brings him back. It’ll be memed to death Vampire cliches and a cool model. The brought back Guilliman and he became a caricature of his administrator memes. They brought back the Lion and he’s a caricature of the Dark Angel secret squirrel memes. What is the Blood Angels over done and dead horse theme? Vampirism. We will be lucky if he isn’t resurrected as Death Company Sanguinius where he is just reliving his fight with Horus for eternity because someone somewhere thinks that’s a good way to do it. 

Tbf that would make some sense at least