Warhammer30k Astartes MKVI Assault Marines

[Scribe]

2 minutes ago, Noserenda said:

Yeah a thread on the modern 30k plastics really isnt the place to slam Primaris for being monopose :D 

 

Oh I know, I've tried a whole bunch of the modern kits lately, and I really just dont enjoy putting any of them together.

 

Knights were good. Tau Suits. Otherwise? Really just annoying to build things.

[OttoVonAwesome]

9 hours ago, Noserenda said:

Yeah a thread on the modern 30k plastics really isnt the place to slam Primaris for being monopose :D 

Why not they are the same. But people do forget the old minis didn't have great poseability either. If you twisted the torso slightly it looked wrong cuase the belt is all cockeyed so the best looking poses were stiffer really. I think what people really miss about the old marines is the sheer amount of bits and kitbashing custom glory we had back then compared to a bunch of guys that are generally the same wich is fine for heresy but wasn't standard in 40k till Primaris came along. 

[Halandaar]

12 hours ago, MoriyaSchism said:

What do you mean by modularity in terms of models? Do you mean the special weapon upgrade kits? Most of the new plastic infantry releases for Horus Heresy don't have that much variety in terms of bits compared to the classic Marines. It's all the same helmet and chest plate for the most part just like most Primaris kits. I mean you can still swap arms and weapons on modern 40K models if that's what you mean by modularity.

 

Have to presume it's about the rules; Heresy is much more encouraging of mixing parts from different kits to achieve the optional loadouts the rules allow, whereas in 40K the rules are very much becoming "locked" to what is available on the kit that represents that unit.

 

I'm experiencing this at the moment with the new Cadians; Shock Troops are allowed to take 2 special weapons per squad but can't take duplicates because the kit only comes with 1 of each. That's despite the Command Squad coming with 8 (!) different special weapons that only 2 models can use. One unit doesn't have enough parts so the rules are restrictive, while another kit has too many parts that you can't make use of. You don't get that sort of arbitrary nonsense in Heresy.

 

 

 

 

[MoriyaSchism]

3 hours ago, Halandaar said:

I'm experiencing this at the moment with the new Cadians; Shock Troops are allowed to take 2 special weapons per squad but can't take duplicates because the kit only comes with 1 of each. That's despite the Command Squad coming with 8 (!) different special weapons that only 2 models can use. One unit doesn't have enough parts so the rules are restrictive, while another kit has too many parts that you can't make use of. You don't get that sort of arbitrary nonsense in Heresy.

This sort of nonsense is why I barely play mainline 40K these days. I remember the days where you could run a plasma rifle and a melta gun on Raptors and Assault Marines. I was just mostly thinking about modularity as in what you can actually do with the plastic models without the mix of parts looking off.

[01RTB01]

I can understand in part why they've changed things - there's so many units for 40k, allowing a free for all makes balance even harder - if indeed they genuinely look for balance.

 

However, I'm thankful for the freedom that we have in heresy. To be so straightjacketed would be hideous. 

[Dr. Clock]

17 hours ago, MoriyaSchism said:

Do you mean the special weapon upgrade kits? Most of the new plastic infantry releases for Horus Heresy don't have that much variety in terms of bits compared to the classic Marines.

Kind of? It's a bit less about variety inside kits and more about the cross-compatibility and poseability of arms and weapons between kits, if that makes any sense. On both sides of the fence these days the tendency is really to avoid weapon diversity inside units, rather that some kits come with extra weapon options but only for the whole unit - as in the shield choice in this release.  The old 'rules support loadouts not included in the box' thing is mostly just more feelsbad for everyone in the long run than more uniform and albeit limited roles for each datasheet IMO. For the 'maximum choices' units most people only use the ones that are most points efficient in game for that edition and then complains when that edge case efficiency goes back to whatever they didn't build for 6 months ago...

 

Indeed the more I game in 10th the more the different units actually feel distinct and cool in their own right rather than just slight variations in a single heavy/special choice per 5 guys . Taking Hellblasters, Eradicators and Infernus marines in a list together is alot more engaging to me than 3 units of devastators.

 

17 hours ago, Noserenda said:

Yeah a thread on the modern 30k plastics really isnt the place to slam Primaris for being monopose :D 

 

That's the rub. They COULD make a box of 5 dynamic / running / jumping Mk VI duders just like the assault intercessors... But they wouldn't really jive with the expected scale of 30k because nobody is buying 30 if they're in units of 5, nor will they likely work well with the arms/weapons that are soon to exist for Legion variants because you can't really sell an upgrade kit that's only enough stuff for 5 guys... or even two boxes of 5 guys.

 

Think about it like this: they can only expect to sell upgrade kits if those feel like they have enough value as an add-on to a single other purchase and make a meaningful impact in the game/collecting experience. As soon as you have to buy more than one base kit to use all/most of the stuff in an upgrade sprue, the upgrade sprue becomes a loser because you're not selling enough of them. A heavy weapon upgrade sprue with 4x5 guns is pointless when people need to buy 4x 5-man teams just to fully use it. But get the 'base platform' down to 20 guys and all of a sudden you are selling an upgrade sprue with every other (infantry) kit you sell...

 

You can tell that in Heresy they are back to straining to get maximum models per sprue, while also allowing modularity (I agree that it's not really poseability). This does create 'mono-posing', but it does so in a slightly different way than 40k seems to be. It seems like models will naturally tend to be 'mono-pose' either insofar as the design forces you to assemble it in only one way, or insofar as modularity actually forces poses to be similar so that they're all 'uniform platforms' for the many different armaments they are designed to accommodate.

 

I do wish this kit had a bit more in the way of dynamic leg movement, but I think the reasons why they do not may be more technical and a result of 'the number of them needed in a box' than a pure design choice.

 

Cheers,

 

The Good Doctor.

 

 

[MoriyaSchism]

18 minutes ago, Dr. Clock said:

Kind of? It's a bit less about variety inside kits and more about the cross-compatibility and poseability of arms and weapons between kits, if that makes any sense. On both sides of the fence these days the tendency is really to avoid weapon diversity inside units, rather that some kits come with extra weapon options but only for the whole unit - as in the shield choice in this release.  The old 'rules support loadouts not included in the box' thing is mostly just more feelsbad for everyone in the long run than more uniform and albeit limited roles for each datasheet IMO. For the 'maximum choices' units most people only use the ones that are most points efficient in game for that edition and then complains when that edge case efficiency goes back to whatever they didn't build for 6 months ago...

 

Indeed the more I game in 10th the more the different units actually feel distinct and cool in their own right rather than just slight variations in a single heavy/special choice per 5 guys . Taking Hellblasters, Eradicators and Infernus marines in a list together is alot more engaging to me than 3 units of devastators.

I'm just too attached to the old Codex organization despite liking Codex divergent chapters (Exorcists, Star Phantoms). What they did with heavy support with the Primaris range is a bit sad and I actually prefer a single devastator unit over the approach of devastator weapons being split into 4 different datasheets.  The way things are done in 10th edition feels like the forcing of pure Codex Astartes adherence to every chapter apart from the Black Templars, but this is all off topic for this thread and it's a topic that has been done to death so we'll just agree to disagree.

Edited December 12, 2023 by MoriyaSchism

[Indy Techwisp]

Why are we even talking about Primaris Marines or 40k 10th edition here?
Cawl hasn't even begun the blueprints stage of the Primaris project yet, and we're still 10k+ years out from 40k so this isn't an appropriate thread for either discussion.

[OttoVonAwesome]

23 hours ago, Halandaar said:

 

Have to presume it's about the rules; Heresy is much more encouraging of mixing parts from different kits to achieve the optional loadouts the rules allow, whereas in 40K the rules are very much becoming "locked" to what is available on the kit that represents that unit.

 

I'm experiencing this at the moment with the new Cadians; Shock Troops are allowed to take 2 special weapons per squad but can't take duplicates because the kit only comes with 1 of each. That's despite the Command Squad coming with 8 (!) different special weapons that only 2 models can use. One unit doesn't have enough parts so the rules are restrictive, while another kit has too many parts that you can't make use of. You don't get that sort of arbitrary nonsense in Heresy.

This made me rage out when the last guard codex dropped. They did that but also pulled Support squads from the roster entirely so now you got all these extra bits you can never use and will just end up in the trash. So not only are the rules dumb and unnecessarily restrictive they are also bad for the environment. lol 

 

14 hours ago, Indy Techwisp said:

Why are we even talking about Primaris Marines or 40k 10th edition here?
Cawl hasn't even begun the blueprints stage of the Primaris project yet, and we're still 10k+ years out from 40k so this isn't an appropriate thread for either discussion.

It started out as relevant comparison between the new models.

[Indy Techwisp]

2 minutes ago, OttoVonAwesome said:

now you got all these extra bits you can never use and will just end up in the trash.

 

Are you telling me you don't either A) store all the spare bits in a plastic tub for kitbashing later or B) sell the spare bits online for cash?

[Antarius]

On 12/9/2023 at 8:34 AM, Waaagh? said:

 

The old Assault Marine kit did come with alternate chests and normal backpacks bud. 

Really? I guess I'm thinking of the kit a generation older, then. I clearly remember having the issue.

[01RTB01]

1 hour ago, Antarius said:

Really? I guess I'm thinking of the kit a generation older, then. I clearly remember having the issue.

Definitely had both

 

 

 

[OttoVonAwesome]

9 hours ago, Indy Techwisp said:

 

Are you telling me you don't either A) store all the spare bits in a plastic tub for kitbashing later or B) sell the spare bits online for cash?

Obviously I have a huge bitz box but now I don't have alot to do with those bits. Had the same problem with dual kits, Tons of bits you'll never use (collect militarum tempestus or anything with dual kits really) also dislike the fact that you can't buy chaos guardsmen or other kill teams without the upgrade sprue that's present in every killteam that isn't a brand new killteam release like the blooded. I'm paying through the nose to make chaos guard or 30k militia and 2 entire sprues are just pointless in the kit, I have 6 commissars and ogryn bodyguards I don't need and selling them on Ebay isn't worth the time. 10th edition changes to Primaris is another thing that grinds my gears now that none of the options for the guns matter you just have dead space and wasted plastic.

[Antarius]

18 hours ago, 01RTB01 said:

Definitely had both

 

 

 

Yeah, I'm just showing my age, here 

[Dont-Be-Haten]

I'm getting these to convert into Assault Reavers.

 

Maybe I'll get some for the Raven Guard. Not sure yet. Excited all the same.

 

I do think they would look great with the 40k inceptor flying sticks though. That's definitely something that would make them look better!

Edited December 13, 2023 by Dont-Be-Haten

[appiah4]

On 12/12/2023 at 12:25 AM, Noserenda said:

Yeah a thread on the modern 30k plastics really isnt the place to slam Primaris for being monopose :D 

Like.. why?  and how?  Do the 30K plastic kits exist in a vacuum?

 

How can we discuss their merits without drawing comparisons with and sharing our views on other existing products?

 

Mk VI Assault Marines is an OK kit.  Let's close the topic and go.

 

The whole B&C negativity police thing is starting to get tiresome.

Edited December 14, 2023 by appiah4

[MaximusTL]

on the topic of bits/convertability, While i love the scale and detail of primaris, i really don't like that they look all factory-fresh identical. yeah it makes sense as these suits *are* new in universe, but it drains all the personality out of them. the firstborn marines had their armor, while mainly MK VII, had bits of MK IV and VI mixed in, armor bolts, iconography, etc. they have personality.

the tacticus marines that feel like marines in culture and not just in form are blinged characters and veterans. give us vack actually different helmets, different shoulder trims, different icongraphy on the chest (come on, can't replace a few winged skulls with aquillas? only 2 leitenants have chest aquilas). small things like that add alot.

[Mogger351]

37 minutes ago, appiah4 said:

Like.. why?  and how?  Do the 30K plastic kits exist in a vacuum?

 

How can we discuss their merits without drawing comparisons with and sharing our views on other existing products?

 

Mk VI Assault Marines is an OK kit.  Let's close the topic and go.

 

The whole B&C negativity police thing is starting to get tiresome.

"Recent GW posing on their kits seems to be more along the lines of monopose, which impacts XYZ and why I don't like ABC (this topic)" is ok in my opinion, it related to the release in the topic and doesn't make direct comparisons that could be misconstrued. 

Edited December 14, 2023 by Mogger351

[Matcap86]

19 hours ago, Antarius said:

Yeah, I'm just showing my age, here 

 

But the ones before that also had both. (yes I am teasing... a bit.)

 

Edited December 14, 2023 by matcap86

[Orion]

10 minutes ago, matcap86 said:

 

But the ones before that also had both. (yes I am teasing... a bit.)

 

 

Before before! haha

No power weapons, but 5 plasma pistols!

[appiah4]

To put things into perspective, you could order power weapon bits directly from GW for pennies at the time.  And you basically got 5 plasma pistols for a squad where only 3 of them were legal.

 

That said, heretic! How dare you compare these ugly, old, static relics of the past to the beautiful detailed and dynamic monopose models of today..

 

I will die fighting to defend this hill, but those kits were a million times more fun to assemble than the 3d jigsaws we have today.

Edited December 14, 2023 by appiah4

[Halandaar]

45 minutes ago, appiah4 said:

I will die fighting to defend this hill, but those kits were a million times more fun to assemble than the 3d jigsaws we have today.

 

As much as I have fond memories of building those kits back in third edition, a large part of it is surely nostalgia. The mold lines were way worse, slips were more common, gaps were a constant reality. Even the pose variety that people deride on modern kits was worse back then if you look at it objectively; on that Assault Marine kit there are only three different sets of legs, and only one arm position (right arm bent, left arm straight) across all 10 models in the kit. The only thing you could do then which you can't do now is rotate at the waist, and if you did that beyond a certain limited range it looked stupid anyway.

[Noserenda]

3 hours ago, appiah4 said:

Like.. why?  and how?  Do the 30K plastic kits exist in a vacuum?

 

How can we discuss their merits without drawing comparisons with and sharing our views on other existing products?

 

Mk VI Assault Marines is an OK kit.  Let's close the topic and go.

 

The whole B&C negativity police thing is starting to get tiresome.

Negativity police me? I genuinely lol'ed (Though to be fair, 5 years on the whining about Primaris existing from some people is beyond tiresome) my point, that i felt was obvious, was that these models are exactly as poseable as any modern marine but the 30k range as a whole is so static that even different versions of the same unit share poses to an uncanny degree when they are laid out.

Gw definitely used to be over generous with plasma pistols though, even after a period of using them for any and everything from epic terrain to combi plasmas i still have dozens in my bits boxes :D 

[Stitch5000]

2 hours ago, Halandaar said:

The only thing you could do then which you can't do now is rotate at the waist, and if you did that beyond a certain limited range it looked stupid anyway.

THANK, YOU.

[de Selby]

3 hours ago, JayJapanB said:

 

Before before! haha

No power weapons, but 5 plasma pistols!

I think the leg poses here are about as good as they have ever been, I wish they looked like that with modern proportions.   And the weapons in either hand do a lot to increase pose variability, more than the joint at the waist.

 

FWIW, I am actually fine with GW's jigsaw approach to posing provided the models in a normal unit actually look good-and not all the same.

Edited December 14, 2023 by de Selby