Deathwatch: Murderers in Black (OOC Thread)

[Lysimachus]

@Lord_Ikka hey mate, just a heads up, the FAB will definitely bring down the BL, but leaving engagement to do it will trigger an opportunity Attack first. Obviously it will have to roll to Hit, and you haven't used your Dodge yet, so you're probably ok, but I just wanted to check you were happy with that?

[Lord_Ikka]

That's fine- I can't shoot a shotgun if I'm in engagement.

[A.T.]

The fate point rules mention that they can be used in reaction to another characters action - could Omoc have used a fate point to join in Gerhardts call to action when it was made?

(seems like a more thematic way to absorb a little of that damage rather than just spending a fate point to heal)

[Machine God]

 

 

Please disregard 

Edited October 16 by Machine God

[Lysimachus]

36 minutes ago, A.T. said:

The fate point rules mention that they can be used in reaction to another characters action - could Omoc have used a fate point to join in Gerhardts call to action when it was made?

(seems like a more thematic way to absorb a little of that damage rather than just spending a fate point to heal)

 

 

Do you mean Gerhardt activating the Armour of Faith Mode? And you'd spend the FP to rejoin Squad Mode and thereby benefit from it?

 

The problem is, as I said to Necro, that you've actually already used a Squad Action (Bolter Assault) in your Turn 1, so AoF would only be able to come into effect in your Turn 2 (but to keep life simple I was allowing it to work for everyone right from the start of Round 2) but it can't affect the Bloodletter attacks in R1?

 

Sorry, I probably should have done it by the book and got Necro to delay calling that Squad Mode until it was actually his Turn in R2, might have kept it clearer in my head! 

 

 

 

Edit: also, sorry for the delay in doing Orochi's actions in R2, I'm just checking some stuff to make sure I've got it right...

 

Edited October 16 by Lysimachus

[Necronaut]

Sorry for the confusion!

[A.T.]

Ah, ok.  The rules on 219 are a bit vague as they state that marines cannot benefit from more that one squad action (bonus moves, attacks, reactions, etc) - but also seem to imply that squad modes that don't grant actions are grouped in anyway unless otherwise stated... despite not stating otherwise anywhere even for things like Rally Cry.

[Lysimachus]

I agree completely, very vague indeed! I'm surprised that the Errata doesn't clarify any further!

 

It does say that a Sustained Squad Mode can be stopped to use a more active Squad Action (like BA, etc) and then you can go back to using the Sustained Mode without having to pay CP for it again?

 

So stuff like Corruption Resistance or Armour of Faith could be started, then paused, and then gone back to after a BA was used and finished...

 

...but I still can't see anything that says you can benefit from more than one Mode in each Round?

 

[Machine God]

@Lysimachus - GM please could you answer a couple of questions:

 

1) Asterius attacked Orichi in Round 1 in the Bolter Assault. Does this mean that he may attack Orichi with Swift Attack or must he start the ball rolling with a Standard Attack?

 

2) The Eldar Prince told us all about Orichi and we found Skaayn's body. So given that we know about Orichi not being Human can we 'Count Him' as a Xenos?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Necronaut]

@Machine God well there are a few alternatives here: 

 

1. He could be a xenos

2. He could be an Alpha Legion operative who has subjected himself either to surgeries to look like Skaayn or otherwise has a very healthy satrophine habit (my money is on this one)

3. He could be Changeling or some other sort of daemonic shapeshifter

[Mazer Rackham]

1 hour ago, Necronaut said:

@Machine God well there are a few alternatives here: 

 

1. He could be a xenos

2. He could be an Alpha Legion operative who has subjected himself either to surgeries to look like Skaayn or otherwise has a very healthy satrophine habit (my money is on this one)

3. He could be Changeling or some other sort of daemonic shapeshifter

 

Oh, he's from Swindon.

 

Edited October 16 by Mazer Rackham

[Trokair]

4. Orichi was lying. - but on the face of what we have seen this is the least likly. 

 

Also while two seems likly, he could be a trasnhuman with a diferent alegiance, not all shady guys are Alpha (though it feels like 8 out of 10 are)

[Lysimachus]

@Machine God

 

1) In R2 Asterius will be free to act as normal... but I have rolled for Orochi, be warned it's not great for the Blackshield, sorry. Will post IC in a sec.

 

2) @Necronaut has it about right with idea 2. Alpha Legion were known for infiltrating the Raven Guard, so well that they were almost impossible to detect. Orochi doesn't really consider himself part of his Legion any more, though. He's very much out for his own interests.

 

And a lovely big house just outside Swindon, of course.

 

 

Edit: Also, I should mention that I'm attending a wedding tomorrow afternoon/evening, so my presence will be limited or non-existent after lunchtime (unless it's really tedious and I end up logging in on my phone... I'm not super close to the couple! )

 

 

Edited October 16 by Lysimachus

[Lysimachus]

@Mike Zulu Obvs Corruption Resistance is over and done now, but you'll still get the +10 to your Wp test to act. And the test itself is Challenging (+0) this time.

 

If passed you can act as normal this Round.

 

[Lysimachus]

By the way, a note to everyone - I've been thinking about what I was discussing with AT yesterday about the difference between 'passive' Sustained Squad Modes (like Armour of Faith or the Ultras' Lead By Example) and active Action based ones (like Bolter Assault or Furious Charge) and I've decided it doesn't make sense for the passive ones to count towards your 1 Squad Action limit.

 

But I will stipulate that you can only have 1 passive Mode running at any given time, and you only get 1 Squad Action (one that actually gives you extra Actions) per Round.

 

So, AoF is now paid for, up and running, done. But if you wish to convert enough FP into CP to pay for it (as you only have 1 in the bank at the moment) then I will allow you to do a Squad Action of your choice in Round 2.

 

Does that all make sense/seem reasonable to everyone?

 

 

[Machine God]

@Lysimachus - I will try to sort out my messy spoiler issue later. 

 

I looked at Disengage but it would only have taken Asterius 14 metres back as its a Half Move. That would land him in the middle of the Blood Pool. 

 

So I thought he'd go out in a blaze of glory Full Berserk. The Gene-seed won out in the end. 

 

Perhaps his death will attract a load of Bloodletter's and annoy Orichi. 

 

Of course I forgot about the Iron Halo. 

 

"Tis but a scratch!" 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited October 17 by Machine God
Typo

[Mazer Rackham]

Quick men - the GM's off to get trollied and stuffed with cake! Victory is in our clutches!

 

Roll dice! Roll dice like you're a 15,000 pts Grot Infantry formation! 

[Necronaut]

10 hours ago, Mazer Rackham said:

Quick men - the GM's off to get trollied and stuffed with cake! Victory is in our clutches!

 

Roll dice! Roll dice like you're a 15,000 pts Grot Infantry formation! 

 

<Rolls three fistfuls of dice>

 

ALL MISSES?!    STUPID ARMY   MATT WARD STUPID ORKS!

 

<Flips table, storms out>

Edited October 18 by Necronaut

[A.T.]

Omoc now gets a 50/50 parry against all attacks and 6 points of damage reduction against daemons - so please feel free to abandon him to the bloodletters and dogpile the boss.

[Lysimachus]

@A.T. just checking so I've got it all correct for the next Status post -

 

Omoc has used his Full Action and a FP to activate Stalwart Defence. A second FP to rejoin Squad, or did he try and pass a Cohesion Challenge? (Impressive work if he managed that as the team is only on 1CP in the pot at the moment! ). And a third FP to restore some Wounds? (How many did he get back on the d10 roll?)

 

So, by my reckoning he's now down to 1/4 FP remaining?

 

 

Edited October 18 by Lysimachus

[A.T.]

Edit - on second thoughts, squad mode and no healing.

 

(he is always one more fate point down due to abhor the witch so that last one may be useful if we need an emergency squad point boost or the like)

Edited October 18 by A.T.

[Necronaut]

@Lysimachus not to meta-game (well okay I'm trying to win because I am power-gaming scum), but has Orochi actually used his reaction this round? I see you included a note in his actions saying "Reaction Used" (whose exactly?), and he made a field save vs Asterius, but my understanding of force fields is they are supposed to be considered the last line of defense against an attack since they're a passive effect. 

 

Please and thank you in advance for the clarification.

 

Edit: and I will in fact hang onto that FP I spent in the previous turn to convert into 1 CP -- I think I got mixed up with how many CP we had available and what was needed to keep us all in squad mode. I will further go back and edit my post to remove activating the anti-daemon squad mode and put it into effect this turn so everything is on the level.

Edited October 18 by Necronaut

[Lysimachus]

39 minutes ago, Necronaut said:

@Lysimachus not to meta-game (well okay I'm trying to win because I am power-gaming scum), but has Orochi actually used his reaction this round? I see you included a note in his actions saying "Reaction Used" (whose exactly?), and he made a field save vs Asterius, but my understanding of force fields is they are supposed to be considered the last line of defense against an attack since they're a passive effect.

 

I'm pretty sure he hasn't yet used a Reaction. I think you're looking at Orochi's Multiple Attacks and Asterius had used his Reaction against the first one, so it had been used for the 2nd, 3rd and 4th?

 

I'm pretty sure a Field Save is always the first thing rolled, I might need to check my references on that though...

 

39 minutes ago, Necronaut said:

 

Please and thank you in advance for the clarification.

 

Edit: and I will in fact hang onto that FP I spent in the previous turn to convert into 1 CP -- I think I got mixed up with how many CP we had available and what was needed to keep us all in squad mode. I will further go back and edit my post to remove activating the anti-daemon squad mode and put it into effect this turn so everything is on the level.

 

Ok, no worries. No one has taken any Dam yet from the Bloodletters in R2, and it's a Sustained effect, so it doesn't make too much difference when it was started. 

 

 

[Necronaut]

RE: Field saves: I think I got the printed rules (which are somewhat ambiguous) confused with the house rules that my friends and I ended up using which were that a field save would only come up if/when your character either failed to dodge or parry an incoming attack or was out of dodge/parry attempts for the round. Our primary rationale was that a force field would activate at the speed of light (read: instantaneously), and as such, if your force field should fail to activate as a first step, your character would have effectively no time to react or do anything else to preserve themselves, not to mention the fact that you are supposed to announce whether you wish to dodge or parry immediately after your opponent makes a successful attack against you (ignoring, for now, of course, the realities of doing this all in a PBP environment).

 

For those of you who have not studied any hand-to-hand combat, "dodging" and "parrying" really come down to anticipating what your opponent is going to do and actively positioning yourself to give yourself an opportunity to do something to them (in response, of course ) and/or just move out of the line of fire, thus why we ruled that a force field was really a defense of last resort, and which also would give credence to Dodge being a skill in the 40K rpg ecosystem (along with Parry in Black Crusade and Only War) and why it comes up as a critical step in the combat action chain. In essence, your character is and should be making a conscious effort to avoid being hurt in a fight, irrespective of whether they have a force field or not (especially since they only work half of the time at best anyway). Also this is not to mention the fact that having a force field be your first line of defense makes defense more of a passive activity, and really flies in the face of gritty simulated close quarters combat, in my view.

 

Terminator armour in these games is a natural exception to the rule in that your character has become a veritable walking tank covered in extra thicc ceramite plating, and is inherently relying upon said thicc armour plating (with a built-in field/invulnerability save to hand-wave away projectiles harmlessly detonating against or being turned aside by said thick armour plating) to shield them from only the absolute heaviest of firepower. This is balanced, to some degree, by preventing a character wearing TDA from dodging on account of the reduced mobility. Parrying is still ruled as doable/permissible since most terminators go into battle with some manner of pointed stick or bludgeoning implement, which would presumably allow them to turn aside a foe's melee attack.

 

Anyways, sorry for the wall of text, and please excuse my theorizing, wheedling and rambling. I'm not writing all of this to try to persuade you one way or the other, or to get you to deviate from how we've been playing the game heretofore, simply justifying my rationale.

 

I'll have Gerhardt's actions rolled up in a bit.

Edited October 19 by Necronaut

[Mazer Rackham]

@Necronaut that's solid foundation and reason there, but it let's have a peek at game mechanics.

 

The Long of it: it's up to the GM.

 

The Tall of it: A Successful Attack generates an Evasion/Reaction opportunity as per DW:Core (unless the Character for some reason cannot React, maybe from being Stunned, Helpless or whatever). If the Character cannot react, his Force Field may still save him. The wording on p.166 is a bit vague, but I interpret that this eventuality covers by omission, 'when the Character is Attacked' assumes the Attack is successful - this is important, because for the attack to be successful, you must have either:

• Failed your Reaction, Or;
• Were not allowed a Reaction by conditions of play.

As otherwise, by strictest RAW, you could be rolling for Hits that haven't even landed....so:

 

Example:

A Heavy Bolter armed Player fires at a Target with a Field rating of 50:

1. Player rolls 6 degrees of success (6 Hits, max RoF);
2. This is an Attack, as described by DW:Core, p.166
3. Target gets Reaction (it's elective - unless Target is incapable of Reacting, and not on own turn);
4. If Target chooses to Dodge:
   1. Make Agility or Reaction Test:
   2. Target obtains PASS, Plus 1 DoS, negating two hits;
   3. Dodge used, may only use one Dodge against a single Attack;

Then/Or:

1. Target does not Dodge, fails the Dodge, cannot Dodge or has Dodged - but the Attack is not fully Resolved:
   1. Target rolls against PR of field since the Attack is now successful (four Hits have landed, and only one Evasion is permitted per Attack);
   2. If the PR is lower than, or equal to, Field Rating, the Attack (what remains of it) is negated, regardless of Hits landed;
   3. If, when rolled, the result matches the Field's 'Burnout' range, the field works for the Attack, but no longer functions afterwards.

Essentially there is a decision to be made by the GM (ergo a house rule) on how the field operates - does the Field work per Attack, or per Hit, since a HB Dev blitzing a 01 to score 6 HB Rounds on target, only for them to all shear off in a single roll is possibly...unsatisfying. An alternative is to roll per Hit. This brings its own problems, however, as it cheapens the effect of the field a bit - BUT - it streamlines the entire process, and brings it into line with with RAI.

 

When comparing against Swift Attack, for example, no detriment is suffered - You have two Attacks with one Hit each, so essentially, you get your Dodge against the first, and if not, then your field against the second, or get your field against BOTH, since it's still two hits...

 

We'll put this in the FAQ we're trying to resurrect, methinks.