Adeptus Custodes Officially Include Women

[lansalt]

13 minutes ago, Sete said:

*no women included in the peak of humanity

I understand that this is what bothers you and other people, but it's a misconception and subverted in the fluff on purpose many times. Hell, that's the whole point of the SoS Aleya in The Carrion Throne or the plot about Valdor being given a spear that makes him a bit more human every time he kills someone.

[Marshal Rohr]

No one is joining the hobby and picking a faction based on the sex of the models. That’s an insane idea. How would Tyranids ever sell a single model? That being said, Custodes barely existed before 8th Edition punted them into 40K, and outside of the ones that died at Ullanor and the first three Heresy Books, they showed up in a few novels and that was it. We knew diddly squat about them, and just seeing art of three or four as dudes in Collected Visions didn’t make them all men any more than it made all of the ones with helmets on women. 
 

You are all treating this like they changed the Marine lore, and they haven’t. Nothing changed except a single sentence in a 40K codex and those hardly qualify as lore. 

[Zoatibix]

3 minutes ago, Nephaston said:

 

Plus, with the niche of egalitarian transhuman fighters now covered by custodes we won't need womarines and keep their globules cootie free.

Yeah, I wondered if this is a way for GW to kick the Female Marines thing further down the road.

 

 

[Timberley]

51 minutes ago, Sete said:

The God Emperor of Mankind is an Equal Opportunity Employer. 

 

This literally has zero impact in the custodes lore. 

 

If its bothering you a fair amount, take a step back and re-evaluate your relationship with the hobby, and life in general. 

 

 

 

Indeed.  It's basically a retcon for GW to sell more plastic miniatures to more people (including those who may not have considered the hobby before).  The lore is essentially there to service the selling of such miniatures.  I wonder if this means we'll be getting new kits soon (that'll go out of stock minutes after release and not be restocked for a few months)?

[Sete]

15 minutes ago, Timberley said:

I wonder if this means we'll be getting new kits soon (that'll go out of stock minutes after release and not be restocked for a few months)?

I would sell a kidney for some Plastic dreads and tanks

[Vazzy]

Probably time to lock the thread lol. Lots of arguing in circles and some wild takes I didn’t expect to see on BnC lol. 

[phandaal]

7 minutes ago, Kastor Krieg said:

Because it does, silly. Check my post above, applies to you as well it seems.

 

I disagree. The lore is the lore regardless of who is saying it.

 

If someone wants to just be happy about the lore change, that is for them to decide and it is their right to do so. If someone is happy about it because they are a woman and the change makes them feel good about that, then again that is for them to decide.

 

If someone wants to make a claim about the lore, however, their knowledge of the lore (or lack thereof) is the only thing that matters.

[Orange Knight]

I had a long read of the conversations in this topic. Some responses and disingenuous dismissal of people's reaction to this development have been disappointing to see. 

 

Ultimately this blurb constitutes a significantly retcon to the identity of the Custodes faction. That's not an opinion, it's a simple fact.

 

Whether the idea is sound or not isn't the issue.

It's perfectly valid to have a negative reaction to a retcon that up-ends a faction identity in such a significant way.

 

We have to ask ourselves if this change is done to benefit the identity of the faction, or if it's a cumbersome attempt at trying to appeal to external elements.

 

Trying to please everyone often upsets more people - that is a common mistake in the political, social and creative spheres.

Edited April 14 by Orange Knight

[Cenobite Terminator]

I’m okay with it and if it happens to get more females rolling dice then all the better.

[Tyriks]

 =][= Let's all take some deep breaths here. Remember that different opinions are NOT cause for insults and demeaning comments. This thread will need to be cleaned up a bit before being unlocked again. =][=

[Captain Idaho]

=][=  (Edited for clarity)

 

There's little discussion of the evidence put forward of female Custodes in the lore (topic) or rules or representation and the subject matter has seen snide remarks and off topic discussion. Whilst it is on topic to discuss referencing a change in background and how you feel about it, it quickly dips into off topic realms.

 

=][=

 

Edited April 14 by Captain Idaho

[Iron Father Ferrum]

=][= If the page count of this thread looks much shorter than it did the last time you read through it, that's because entire pages have been pruned for being off-topic, disruptive, (which is, as an aside, an off-topic conversation for the forum -- thus removal).  Some posts that did not directly violate the rules were hidden because they quoted posts that did.  This thread is for polite discussion regarding the lore change (and it is a change) noting that there are female Custodes.  Like it or not, it's now a thing.

 

To pull a few examples, this thread is not for: discussing the clothing choices of Drukhari, the number of female heads on the new Cadian sprues, or the impacts of modern feminism on a completely different IP.

 

This thread will remain locked for the time being.  Further guidance will follow in due course.  =][=

 

Edited April 14 by Triszin

[Brother Tyler]

This topic is being re-opened. Some of you may notice that the topic title has changed. It was originally about the possibility of females being officially included in the Adeptus Custodes. A similar topic was created in the News, Rumors, and Board Announcements forum once the evidence became clear. We don't need both topics, and this simple lore change doesn't fall under the rubric of "news" for the purpose of our site's content structure (though it is certainly news in terms of the implications for the Adeptus Custodes and fans of that faction).

 

For some reason, too many members of the community are unable to discuss the issue of females in either the Adeptus/Legiones Custodes or the Adeptus/Legiones Astartes without creating unnecessary friction. This goes for those on both sides of the issue. It's very easy to hurl insults at those that have a different viewpoint, but it is neither necessary nor appropriate to do so. People are going to have different opinions. That's okay. Ultimately, we're here to talk about a game where we move our little toy soldiers around and imagine them fighting in a horrific make-believe setting. The people that control the official setting have decided that this is the way it is. Some of us will love it, some will hate it, and some will be indifferent to it. We shouldn't be using these differences of opinion to create discontent, however. After all, we're here to enjoy the hobby.

 

IMPORTANT!

 

If discussion gets out of hand again, the topic will be closed permanently and, where warranted, disciplinary action will be imposed.

[Sword Brother Adelard]

Alright then, let's be productive!

 

Now that we know that ADB wanted to write female custodians in The Master of Mankind, but was prevented from doing so for IP/model reasons. (Thanks yet again Chapter House?) A few little subtle hints are now appearing elsewhere. This reference in Echoes of Eternity reads a bit different now for instance:

 

"Sanguinius had never seen a spaceship before, not outside the fractal impressions of them that sailed in his waking dreams. This one, sitting on the desert plain with its golden armour baking in the sun, had the suggestion of vulturishness. It was a thing of power and efficiency, blunt and brutal. Fire made it fly, not any notion of grace. Figures clustered around the craft’s landing legs, where the ship’s great metal claws gripped the radiation-soaked dust of the wasteland. These men and women were plated in the same gold as the ship, rendered upon their bodies with painstaking artistry. My father’s guardians, Sanguinius thought. And what a thought it was, not only that a being such as his father required guardians, but that he had a father at all."

 

presumably, everyone glossed over this when it came out as they presumed the women to be Silent sisters, but it seems more likely now that Sanguineous was describing female Custodians. 

 

Which I think is neat.

[Doctor Perils]

This is awesome! Finally a faction my girlfriend could be interested in playing!

I already have 5 Custodes and 5 Sisters of Silence from the Prospero boxset. The plastic jetbikes are gorgeous... yeah, I could see us expanding into a kill team or combat patrol of Talons

[LemanPuss]

I love the sisters, they look feminine and graceful. The female custodes feels like a retcon sticking a lady head on to a male figure whilst trying to pander to female gamers like me.  

[lansalt]

22 minutes ago, Sword Brother Adelard said:

 it seems more likely now that Sanguineous was describing female Custodians. 

Very doubful when it was written before the 9th ed codex released in the same 2022, and the following 30k/40k novels and codexes kept the same lore about them since 2004 and Visions of Heresy. Like in TEATD and the selenar Andromeda-17 playing mind games with them along Basilio Fo.
Also, while I get why everyone mentions Master of Mankind so much (I loved it), their proper introduction to 40k was The Carrion Throne by Chris Wraigh barely a year later. 

 

29 minutes ago, Doctor Perils said:

The plastic jetbikes are gorgeous... yeah

Speaking of jetbikes, the Sisters of Silence have those too in their 30k rules. They just lack models like most of their units (before plastic SA was leaked many though they were the secret new army range).

Those women can't catch a break, everyone forgets and dismisses them. Poor Aleya :/
 

[Roomsky]

Hey, that's fun. Sort of fills the FSM niche without undermining any important theming related to SMs (whatever your opinions that might be.) I just wish it had happened 8 years ago so ADB could have included them in Master of Mankind like he wanted.

 

This is also such a nothing change compared to Custodes being active off of Terra. I'm surprised at the controversy.

 

 

[lansalt]

6 minutes ago, Roomsky said:

I just wish it had happened 8 years ago

Yeah, either that or at least make a true effort explaining their introduction in the current 40k era along a new mixed kit. Plenty of ways to do it, starting with the Emperor making the Custodes do it just like he pushed them to get out of Terra. They could even have linked it to the mystery around Valdor in the Bequin series.
Anything but throwing away 20 years of art and stories about Custodes and Sisters of Silence that now are void and meaningless.

 

[Sword Brother Adelard]

But this isn't meant to be an introduction, they were always there. They won't look any different with their helmets on. 

 

Perhaps that's why the helmets were always so big? They were full of secrets!

[Orange Knight]

At the end of the day, GW control the lore of their own game. Like anything else hobby related, we chose to engage or not.

 

They have decided to make this change. It could be interesting, or it could just as easily be clumsy. It's a retcon, so it carries the risk of damaging a very well established idea.

 

I said as much in a different topic, but they have to follow through with this. I'm not going to be satisfied or impressed if this lore alteration only exists in a codex blurb. I don't want to see them engage in disingenuous inclusion. 

 

The model line has to be updated, in the same way that the Stormcast were updated. 

[Sword Brother Adelard]

I also really don't get how the clarification that done custodes are female means the silent sisters are threatened. What makes the pairing of a custodian and an Oblivion Knight potent isnt that they were different genders, it's that the Knights are pariahs. They're still exactly as vital as they always should have been, and are again*.

 

*'should' in that the Imperium ignores them until Guilliman returns and asks where the hell they got to and ensures their numbers are boosted.

[Orange Knight]

Why stop at the Custodes?

 

The Pariah gene occurs in men as much as it does women.

 

Rename the Sisters of Silence into the "Oblivion Knights" and include men.

Edited April 15 by Orange Knight

[Jings]

I just don't know who this change is for. GW should have just expanded on the Sisters of Silence and made a fully-fledged Talons of the Emperor faction. 

 

There was plenty of time to introduce this element to the faction, and they didn't. The correct move here here would be to further integrate the SoS and Custodes together instead of shoehorning in this retcon out of nowhere. 

 

I'm trying not to be salty, but it's so incredibly bland. 

[lansalt]

Just now, Trysanna said:

All the art and stories still apply tho? The inclusion of women didn't make those stories or art invalid, the army just has some women in it

Sorry, but no. As I already mentioned they were heavily codified as male vs. the female SoS since John Blanche designs for Visions of Heresy. They were both effectively an "antiquity" counter part to the "medieval" SM chapters and SoB duality.

The Adeptus Custodes (and the Emperor) are full of references to Alexander the Great's Companions and the Sacred Band of Thebes. Somebody better informed than me could write an essay on their heavy historical gay subtext. It's not random that they became a meme with TTS Pillarmen custodes.
And i know that I sound like a broken record by now, but The Carrion Throne/The Regent's shadow and the relationship between Valerian and Aleya just doesn't work without that duality.