Rumor via CM Valrak: Salamander VS Iron Warrior box?

[Corswain]

I could see this panning out as a very early new edition rumour for next year but there are a lot of assumptions there.

 

So far they have just marketed the army boxes as single faction so a vs. box is a change. Not that it has any real bearing on what people actually do with the contents.

 

I think Salamanders v Iron Warriors sounds cool though. I can get more enthusiastic about that than Fists and SoH.

[Doctor Perils]

When I first heard about it, I didn't believe it, cos Murphy's law says I can't have nice things (ie both my legions in the same box). That transfer sheet goes a long way to convince me though. Both legions would also be likely candidates for a potential plastic release of Breachers and Assault Drills.

 

Blast! 2024/25 were already going to be expensive years with incoming Emperor's Children, Aeldari and apparently Chaos Dwarves...

[Xirix]

I'd really like to believe this, though again, it would be interesting to know what exactly "Saturnine" means in this context. I'm sure a lot of people are probably expecting the MK1 "Egg" Terminators, though they were never called Saturnine, whereas if I'm not mistaken, Saturnine is listed in the Marine Libers, and is described as basically a slightly different Indomitus, similar to how the Iron Hand's one is. (Though at the same time, Salamanders had the prototype version of the egg terminator, right? So the fact it's Salamanders and Iron Warriors might be a good reason for it to actually be 'those' termies)

 

As for the new edition rumour, I hope that's false, or is just something similar to 40K's 3rd and 3.5 editions, just a rules tidy up/balance thing.

Edited June 12 by Xirix

[corvus.calvariam]

2 hours ago, Xirix said:

I'd really like to believe this, though again, it would be interesting to know what exactly "Saturnine" means in this context. I'm sure a lot of people are probably expecting the MK1 "Egg" Terminators, though they were never called Saturnine, whereas if I'm not mistaken, Saturnine is listed in the Marine Libers, and is described as basically a slightly different Indomitus, similar to how the Iron Hand's one is. (Though at the same time, Salamanders had the prototype version of the egg terminator, right? So the fact it's Salamanders and Iron Warriors might be a good reason for it to actually be 'those' termies)

 

As for the new edition rumour, I hope that's false, or is just something similar to 40K's 3rd and 3.5 editions, just a rules tidy up/balance thing.

 

On some level I think it'd be hilarious if they put out the mk1s and called them Arkonak or Regulaum pattern or something, but at this point I think they'd probably just cave and call it Saturnine despite the conflict. 

[Ripper.McGuirl]

I highly doubt a new edition would be coming any time soon. As someone mentioned, the Necromunda boxes frequently involve updated rulebooks (for better or worse), and an updated/ FAQed rulebook would be more likely in my eyes. I wouldnt be shocked to see them do another new big starter box with new armor marks.

[Petitioner's City]

11 minutes ago, Ripper.McGuirl said:

I highly doubt a new edition would be coming any time soon. As someone mentioned, the Necromunda boxes frequently involve updated rulebooks (for better or worse), and an updated/ FAQed rulebook would be more likely in my eyes. I wouldnt be shocked to see them do another new big starter box with new armor marks.

 

The annoying thing with Munda was each box provided stealth changes which sometimes even conflicted, and which has left lots of issues the team has no interest in or ability to fix. Id worry that heresy's treatment so far suggests the same attitude of incremental and unclear changes. 

 

I guess Blood Bowl would be a better model from the studio, namely how it's 2020 box versus the 2016 one was a genuinely clear new edition (for good and for worse!).

[LSM]

5 hours ago, Xirix said:

I'd really like to believe this, though again, it would be interesting to know what exactly "Saturnine" means in this context. I'm sure a lot of people are probably expecting the MK1 "Egg" Terminators, though they were never called Saturnine, whereas if I'm not mistaken, Saturnine is listed in the Marine Libers, and is described as basically a slightly different Indomitus, similar to how the Iron Hand's one is...

 

Mmhhmm. A 2019 WarCom article described Saturnine TDA thusly:

 

Saturnine: Little is known about the origins of these Terminator suits other than that they were conceived at a similar time as the Indomitus and Tartaros patterns. Functionally, there is little difference between Saturnine and Indomitus armour, so it is believed that any divergence in design was largely aesthetic. However, few examples of this pattern are known to still exist.

 

Page 32 of the Horus Heresy rulebook (2022) also has an image of the "Armour of the Legiones Astartes", listing them on a timeline. It is presented thusly:

• MkI 'Thunder' Pattern // Issue: Terran Unification Wars
• MkII 'Crusade' Pattern // Issue: Unification of Sol System, Great Crusade
• 'Imperial' Pattern // Issue: ++Data Inaccessible++ // CF: LE2 (Undesignated)
• MkIII 'Iron' Pattern // Issue: Great Crusade // CF: MkIIIb enhanced power pack issued Late Great Crusade
• 'Cataphractii' Pattern Terminator Armour // Issue: Great Crusade
• MkIV 'Maximus' Pattern // Issue: Late Great Crusade
• 'Tartaros' Pattern Terminator Armour // Issue: Late Great Crusade
• MkV 'Heresy' Pattern // Issue: Age of Darkness
• MkVI 'Corvus' Pattern // Issue: Late Great Crusade prototype issue // CF: RTb01 Sub-Mark mass issue by Siege of Terra
• 'Saturnine' Pattern Terminator Armour // Issue: Mid Age of Darkness

So it looks like Saturnine TDA has been planned for awhile, is likely something Indomintus-esque, and in-universe was something that entered full scale production briefly during the 'Heresy. 

 

('Imperial' Pattern being a reference to the 2016 30th Anniversary model.) 

 

//

 

A further thought I had was that in the WarCom article on designing the Leagues of Votann, Jes Goodwin says of the Hearthguard “Trying to evoke the feel of early Terminator suits while making them their own thing was a bit of a balancing act. In the end I looked back at a very early Terminator model I made in the eighties, before the design that we are familiar with today was set. The huge pauldrons, exposed spine, and inset bowl helmet are from there." I know they're different studios, but having just used the early Terminators for the Votann, I wonder if they'd want to dip into that well again for Saturnine TDA.

 

On the other hand, if you were going to make "giant bulky TDA", then Iron Warriors and Salamanders do fit the profile. (Also: two legions without Praetors.) And "eggman" TDA is popular amongst third-party sculpts, so GW might want to bully them out.

 

Edited June 12 by LSM

[Mogger351]

45 minutes ago, Ripper.McGuirl said:

I highly doubt a new edition would be coming any time soon. As someone mentioned, the Necromunda boxes frequently involve updated rulebooks (for better or worse), and an updated/ FAQed rulebook would be more likely in my eyes. I wouldnt be shocked to see them do another new big starter box with new armor marks.

Nothing stopping them releasing such a book and calling it the latest edition mind.

[Marshal Reinhard]

I have a far larger attachment to "Egg terminators" than to the name "Saturnine pattern", so I hope if the rumor is true, they turn out to be the same. Always been curious what a modern spin on them would look like... and if I recall correctly there was an illustration in a novel to that effect (sporting an extra weapon above the head between the pauldrons)?

[Matcap86]

11 minutes ago, Marshal Reinhard said:

I have a far larger attachment to "Egg terminators" than to the name "Saturnine pattern", so I hope if the rumor is true, they turn out to be the same. Always been curious what a modern spin on them would look like... and if I recall correctly there was an illustration in a novel to that effect (sporting an extra weapon above the head between the pauldrons)?

 

Yeah it was in the Shattered Legions Anthology. Short story:"Deeds endure" Think it's this art:

 

Edited June 12 by Matcap86

[Marshal Mittens]

Maybe they have an option for a heavy weapon up there and a good invul save, but only power fists for melee options?

[01RTB01]

1 hour ago, Matcap86 said:

 

Yeah it was in the Shattered Legions Anthology. Short story:"Deeds endure" Think it's this art:

 

Honestly this is what I want to see

[jaxom]

2 hours ago, LSM said:

A further thought I had was that in the WarCom article on designing the Leagues of Votann, Jes Goodwin says of the Hearthguard “Trying to evoke the feel of early Terminator suits while making them their own thing was a bit of a balancing act. In the end I looked back at a very early Terminator model I made in the eighties, before the design that we are familiar with today was set. The huge pauldrons, exposed spine, and inset bowl helmet are from there." I know they're different studios, but having just used the early Terminators for the Votann, I wonder if they'd want to dip into that well again for Saturnine TDA.

There were Saturnine rumors for years and when they released the Votann Hearthguard, I assumed someone had seen an early mock up without context and thought it must be for Marines.

[Matcap86]

 

1 hour ago, Matcap86 said:

 

Yeah it was in the Shattered Legions Anthology. Short story:"Deeds endure" Think it's this art:

 

 

Looking at the art I also think they were very inspired by the design cues in this for the Warmaster titan for Titanicus/Legion Imperialis. Large rising shoulders with weapon mounts between. Centered head. Segmented plating around the torso and the shape of the shinpads are all similar. 

 

[Doghouse]

I wouldn't be completely opposed to a new edition if it sorted a few of the problems just as long as we didn't have to get all new army and expansion books to go with it.

[Redcomet]

2 minutes ago, Doghouse said:

I wouldn't be completely opposed to a new edition if it sorted a few of the problems just as long as we didn't have to get all new army and expansion books to go with it.

Which we would. Specialist games seems to operate that now. Scatter the rules in 15 books. 

[01RTB01]

52 minutes ago, Doghouse said:

I wouldn't be completely opposed to a new edition if it sorted a few of the problems just as long as we didn't have to get all new army and expansion books to go with it.

In fairness 2.0 is in a much better place than 1.0 and reduced the atrocities we had.

[Joe]

I would expect something more along the lines of Necromunda and MESBG in terms of "a new edition" - revised version of the core rules with FAQs and erratas bundled in, and potentially addressing any major issues with factions, units, etc.

 

That last point is unlikely to happen admittedly, but hey ho.

[Borbarad]

GW overdid on the IF releases so they have to pair up Iron Warriors with Salamanders instead of their arch-nemesis? 

[The Praetorian of Inwit]

I'll be happy if GW actually bothers to release plastic kits for Space Marines no matter what mk of armour or box set.

[darkhorse0607]

42 minutes ago, Borbarad said:

GW overdid on the IF releases so they have to pair up Iron Warriors with Salamanders instead of their arch-nemesis? 

 

It is a bit of an odd combination. I'm not complaining because I've been waiting a long time for Iron Warriors releases, but still, kind of an odd match up

[lansalt]

4 hours ago, Matcap86 said:

 

Yeah it was in the Shattered Legions Anthology. Short story:"Deeds endure" Think it's this art:

 

For the record, as far I know the name "Saturnine" and that style of Terminators never have been linked in official sources, it's all a fan theory. This specific case of them was unnoficially called "Nocturne" pattern by Gav Thorpe:
 

[Joe]

Yep. The 40k Discord, rather helpfully, put together a fact sheet for Saturnine a while back.

 

[01RTB01]

39 minutes ago, darkhorse0607 said:

 

It is a bit of an odd combination. I'm not complaining because I've been waiting a long time for Iron Warriors releases, but still, kind of an odd match up

If look at it from point of view of the neglected legions in terms of legion specific stuff, they're a great match. I hope they get what they deserve and I can get some saturnine chonks to paint in purple.

[Noserenda]

2 hours ago, darkhorse0607 said:

 

It is a bit of an odd combination. I'm not complaining because I've been waiting a long time for Iron Warriors releases, but still, kind of an odd match up

It makes decent sense honestly, Salamanders as a shattered legion are all over the place raiding backwaters and the Iron Warriors famously have a whole buttload of garrisons in backwaters across the galaxy.

As for a revised 2nd edition, you can fix a lot of problems with the game via the core rules without touching the codexes. Stuff like making heavy weapons snapshoot on reactions for example or some kind of nerf to the dreadnought type. Id hope theyd just do a comprehensive Faq ands update for all the books though.