Rumor via CM Valrak: Salamander VS Iron Warrior box?

[Waaagh?]

44 minutes ago, LSM said:

 

I think the tendency with an upscale is to lose options.

 

Like the MkIII went from three full sprues (for 10 Marines) with Bolters and Chainswords, a pair of special weapons, a Heavy Bolter, and an assortment of sgt. options, to the new MkIII being a single full sprue (for 5 Marines) with Bolters, plus the shared Tactical Accoutrements sprue. 

 

Upscaled Tartaros probably loose their Lightning Claws, Cataphractii their Chainfists (and probably have to rethink the design of the Lightning Claws, so that they and the Power Fist can share arms and just be a finger swap).

 

I think that was more to do with the gear options available for tactical squads in Heresy. The old boxes gave you equipment tactical squads couldn't have. Assault marines got their shields as well as chainswords options. All that was missing was extended sergeant options and power weapons which is explained by gw wanting to sell the melee upgrade kit when it's finally released.

 

I'd expect terminators will get most of their core options in the box. Things like claws and chainfists can be done easily as attachments for the power fists anyway.

Edited June 20 by Waaagh?

[Hfran Morkai]

Problem is Tartaros Combi-Weapons don't exist in an official capacity at the moment.

 

I feel a rescale is pretty important due to the Power Armour getting upscaled.

 

I wouldn't be averse to there being weapon kits like there are with Power Armour (plastic preferably).

[Noserenda]

I dont think its really upscaling that removed the options, they just got much smaller sprues for the newer kits, which means they are much cheaper to produce and broadens the range so they could squeeze in the weapon sprues. I am hoping the later power armour kits might be better and have more options as the game has done well, but i guess we will see.

[apologist]

44 minutes ago, Waaagh? said:

All that was missing was extended sergeant options and power weapons which is explained by gw wanting to sell the melee upgrade kit when it's finally released.

 

Idle thought, but I'm wondering whether the melee sprue perhaps contains parts specific to armour marks that haven't been released or previewed yet; and if so, whether that accounts for GW holding off showing them.

 

To be clear, I don't think this scenario is particularly likely (the vehicles have a Mark II marine on, for heaven's sake), but if they can release that sprue alongside (say) the Mark II, ready to be upgraded, maybe there's a marketing-driven reason to avoid previewing them too far apart.

[Waaagh?]

11 minutes ago, apologist said:

 

Idle thought, but I'm wondering whether the melee sprue perhaps contains parts specific to armour marks that haven't been released or previewed yet; and if so, whether that accounts for GW holding off showing them.

 

To be clear, I don't think this scenario is particularly likely (the vehicles have a Mark II marine on, for heaven's sake), but if they can release that sprue alongside (say) the Mark II, ready to be upgraded, maybe there's a marketing-driven reason to avoid previewing them too far apart.

 

 

Highly doubtful. It will either have no arms whatsoever or mk6 ones that can have the MK3 kit vambrace added to it.

 

If they had another armour mark planned with parts on this sprue I don't think the melee upgrade would have been on the roadmap in the first place.

[LSM]

1 hour ago, Waaagh? said:

...I'd expect terminators will get most of their core options in the box. Things like claws and chainfists can be done easily as attachments for the power fists anyway.

 

I wasn't thinking so much rules-wise, as sprue-space-wise.

 

Take the Tartaros Terminator kit. Two sprues, five bodies, five Combi-Bolters, ten Power Fists, and some special weapons. And then five pieces to turn Power Fists into Chainfists, and ten pieces to turn Power Fists into Lightning Claws.

 

If you make them bigger, you lose a bunch of space, so either something has to go or the kit needs to add a sprue. 'Heresy 2.0 has (so far) seemed to go out of its way to be economical with its sprues, so I think getting upscaled Terminators would result in the loss of options.

 

(In the kit itself. There'd probably then be a set of resin Tartaros Lightning Claws, resin Cataphractii Chainfists, etc.)

 

//

 

46 minutes ago, Noserenda said:

I dont think its really upscaling that removed the options, they just got much smaller sprues for the newer kits, which means they are much cheaper to produce and broadens the range so they could squeeze in the weapon sprues. I am hoping the later power armour kits might be better and have more options as the game has done well, but i guess we will see.

 

Total plastic is 5/6ths of the old kit (per 10 marines), for the MkIII. (Three full sprues, compared to two full sprues and a half sprue.) The new kit is also far more optimised, as far as minimising dead space in the layout. (Arguably, the loss of half a sprue is mitigated by this.) The new box:

• Loses: Plasma Gun, Melta Gun, Heavy Bolter, Thunder Hammer, Bolt Pistol, 11 Chainswords
• Gains: 6 Heads, 4 Holstered Bolt Pistols, 10 Bayonets, Nuncio Vox, some little bits and bobs

 

That's not a problem for Tactical Marines (couldn't use those special weapon anyway), but bigger Terminators (especially if they approach the size of the new Indomitus ones) will force out options that exist in the current kit (unless they also increase to a three-sprue box).

 

(And I'll stress that I'm not trying to say this is a bad thing. I'm just noting that upscaled Terminators will probably not come with more options, for physical reasons.)

 

 

 

 

Edited June 20 by LSM

[Mandragola]

I’ve no idea if they’ll redo terminators. However the current kit is arguably far from perfect in terms of options. 
 

Its nice to get the option of dual claws, power fists *and* chain fists for everyone but you don’t get volkites, combi-weapons or the *default* power weapons - other than a single sword. You also get no plasma blaster, reaper or thunder hammers. 
 

I certainly don’t want them to redo the kit in the minimal style of the mk3/6 guys but they are kits that could potentially be improved. 

[soviet1337]

I don't think the terminators need reworking, the cataphractii IMO are great. They just need an upgrade sprue with the other weapons. 

[Tyriks]

7 hours ago, soviet1337 said:

I don't think the terminators need reworking, the cataphractii IMO are great. They just need an upgrade sprue with the other weapons. 

Cataphractii are one of my favorite kits, so I tend to agree, but they are definitely small now, so I wouldn't mind a larger version.

[Matrindur]

32 minutes ago, Tyriks said:

Cataphractii are one of my favorite kits, so I tend to agree, but they are definitely small now, so I wouldn't mind a larger version.

I also wouldn't mind a bigger version but that would also likely mean the Age of Darkness set will be discontinued as I doubt they would just replace the Cataphractii with their new version.

That would play into the rumour of a new "edition" with the Salamanders/Iron Warriors box but with how basically every new Combat Patrol over in 40k is worse than the one they replaced I really don't wan't the AoD box replaced with a worse starter for the same price.

Slightly larger Terminators are simply not worth the potentially worse entry point for me. Especially as long as there are still so many other kits that should be moved to plastic first.

Edited June 22 by Matrindur

[Doctor Perils]

On 6/19/2024 at 11:09 PM, Mandragola said:

Curses, now I want to make a new iron warriors or salamander army. I painted a couple of Sallies for a kill team and it’s a cool scheme. 
 

Weirdly, nothing in this box sounds right for my Raven Guard. Mk2, terminators, a massive dreadnought and a gun turret are not what I need. You’d think there’d be something in there to tempt me but nope. Unless they’re OP of course!

I felt the same way for the original SoH vs IF mk6 set, so it sort of seems fair (and good for the wallet) that some boxsets appeal to certain players/legions more than others

[Marshal Reinhard]

I feel the 40k era indomitus terminators set a new gold standard for terminators, so would want to see all existing 30k marks be set level to them.

 

But perhaps not gw's biggest priority? Regardless what saturnine terminators end up being is what I most look forward to.

[Marshal Rohr]

They won’t make any new Cataphractii or Tartaros at the action figure scale of the new terminators. 

[TheArtilleryman]

New box sets would be awesome but I really hope it isn’t a new edition because I’ve only just got hold of the current one. There have been loads of interim two-player boxes for 40K in the past without renewing the Rulebook, like the one with space wolves and orks, or the one with the two Eldar armies. No reason they couldn’t do this with heresy as well. Just add in a small form factor book with the errata corrected like others have suggested.

[Xenith]

2 hours ago, TheArtilleryman said:

New box sets would be awesome but I really hope it isn’t a new edition because I’ve only just got hold of the current one.

 

Seeing as very few acutal gameplay/rules changes have occurred since the last edition, I'd hope it would maybe be a reprint of the book with the errata added in, so new players can get the book, and old players can keep the old one plus all the sheets of paper, or buy the new book for an all0in-one solution. 

 

I mean, who are we kidding, if they do a new AoD style box with Mk4, redone tartaros and, I dunno, 2 plastic javelins, we'd all but it immediately, right?

[Nephaston]

1 hour ago, Xenith said:

I mean, who are we kidding, if they do a new AoD style box with Mk4, redone tartaros and, I dunno, 2 plastic javelins, we'd all but it immediately, right?

True, by the end of it all i can see myself just having one of every infantry type.

Hell, hopefully they continue with the Power Armour having all the same standard poses so I can frankenstein some non-construction MkV.

[Valkyrion]

HH doesn't need a lot doing to it, and most of what needs doing could be done in the Libers rather than the rule book, so that alone makes a new edition a near certainty.