Astartes Specialists in Black Crusade

[Lysimachus]

Hello gents,

 

I was thinking about the Character Archetypes in BC, and I was thinking it's a shame we don't have the other Astartes specialists, especially if a game were running a Marine-only party?

 

(I know there are Archetypes in the Tomes that probably fit the bill, but these are at a way, way higher starting point. I thought it might be cool to come up with some options for use in line with the crb starting Characters?)

 

So, Techmarine is obviously a Marine mixed with a Heretek, but much lighter on his rules/gear to compensate for his innate Astartes-ness (and as usual gets 500xp less!) The Apothecary is built from the Chosen, as I thought the Special Rule works for both Archetypes.

Techmarine/Junior Warpsmith:
Must be Astartes
Starting Skills: Common Lore (AdMech, Tech), Intimidate, Tech-Use
Starting Traits: Mechanicus Implants
Starting Talents: Enemy: AdMech, Technical Knock, Mechadendrite Training (Utility and Weapon), Cold-Hearted or Lesser Minion
Starting Equipment: Servo-Arm, 1 Good Quality Cybernetic, Combi-tool
Wounds: 15+1d5
Special: Traitor To Mars
Included above - Gains Mechanicus Implants, 2 Good Cybernetics (1 must be Servo-Arm), and Binary Chatter (Cybernetic Minions gain +10 Loyalty)

 

 

Apothecary/Corpsetaker:
Must be Astartes
Starting Skills: Dodge+10, Interrogation, Medicae, Scholastic Lore (Chymistry)
Starting Talents: Cold-Hearted or Sound Constitution, Hardy, Jaded or Lesser Minion, Lightning Reflexes
Starting Equipment: Narthecium = Good Medicae/Torture Mechadendrite (with +20 to Medicae tests, don't need Mechanicus Implants or Mechadendrite Training to use), Legion Chainsword or Legion Bolt Pistol
Wounds: 16+1d5
Special: Anatomical Training (Cold Killer)

Any thoughts/suggestions?

 

Edited March 18 by Lysimachus

[Xin Ceithan]

Good idea! 
 

Having some starting options / specialists to choose from would certainly add a bit of diversity to BC, especially in pure CSM games. 
 

I think you’ve covered some nice options already - so off the top of my head I think maybe 

 

Acolyte

(Chaplain/ Dark Apostle in Training

 

Daemonologist 

(Might not need be Psyker )

 

Possessed 

[Mazer Rackham]

15 minutes ago, Xin Ceithan said:

Possessed...

 

Brother, it's Black Crusade. You don't need to start with this. 

[Machine God]

I guess that Lysimachus is bored 

[Lysimachus]

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edit: Serious response, I tend to agree with @Mazer Rackham about the Possessed, that's a risk for anyone through a normal game.

 

Acolyte could work, maybe with some of the starting Skills of the Demagogue? Though I think on that one a Champion could maybe work as the starting point?

 

 

Edited March 18 by Lysimachus

[Necronaut]

@Lysimachus I think your approach to using the core archetypes as a guide is a great stating point, and keeps everything on more or less the same playing field. In fact, these new archetype ideas are really sort of closer to being alternative starting packages for each of the core archetypes and each could probably be tweaked to taste once the effective baked-in xp costs are tallied and approximate values are applied to the special abilities for a proper comparative analysis.

 

I would say that you could extrapolate even further to create analogues of many of the advanced archetypes included in the splatbooks without the added 3000xp worth of advances and bonus (read: broken) powers kludged on top by tweaking the core archetypes as you have done. I have personally always been of the opinion that the advanced archetypes might work best as NPCs or enemies unless you're wanting to run a very high-powered campaign, and there was really no need to create these other archetypes with such a massive power level differential.

Edited March 18 by Necronaut

[Xin Ceithan]

Treating Specialist as something to add to a base Chaos Marine akin to Life Path / Occupation Packages  of other RPGs makes sense 
 

TBF my idea about the Possesed was more along the line of having a step towards something of True/ Greater Possesed or even “Proto” Oblits or such

[Lysimachus]

@Necronaut 100% agree most of the Advanced Archetypes are overpowered, the extra 3k doesn't go anywhere near high enough to bring crb Characters to a par level. We are heading on towards 3k now, but a Berzerker would blender even our CC focused Astartes dudes! I wonder if 4 or even 5k would actually be closer?

 

So, yep, balance with the crb Archetypes is very much what I'm aiming for.

 

Possibly between your autopass initial Acquisitions and spending your pre-game 500xp, you might just be able to build a half decent Apothecary using the crb starting from the Chosen? But it's a stretch to my mind...

 

However, I don't think you could do a workable Techmarine from any of the Marine Archetypes... or working back the other way from the Heretek (needing to add power armour, too many missing Traits, etc, etc). There's just too much missing.

 

 

@Xin Ceithan that's a fair point about Possessed>Greater>Mutilator/Oblit, though I think you'd basically have to redo all the Corruption and Gifts rules for that kind of character, as they would be welcoming all the mutations? It might be a bit beyond the scope of what I'm thinking here...?

 

 

 

 

 

[Mazer Rackham]

2 hours ago, Lysimachus said:

@Necronaut 100% agree most of the Advanced Archetypes are overpowered, the extra 3k doesn't go anywhere near high enough to bring crb Characters to a par level. We are heading on towards 3k now, but a Berzerker would blender even our CC focused Astartes dudes! I wonder if 4 or even 5k would actually be closer?

 

Am trying to get my thoughts in order here regarding this. So this could be a bit over the place.

 

Maybe if you want to build bespoke or Advanced Archetypes, the best way is to do it the way the CRB advises to build a character, which is from the ground up? You take 13k of XP and wash it down with half a pint of napalm and John Daniels. The Player Characters Archetypes as they stand have a built-in set of stats and talents to get you going, but it's never going to equate what can be profiled when pouring XP into a dedicated Character. IMHO, It's a much broader brush for quickstart and a touch of balance against other Players.

 

Porting Specialists in on an ad-hoc basis is perfectly possible, and the ideas laid down earlier in the thread I think, are solid. It might be beneficial to equate what Deathwatch gives as Talents etc using the pages 'Bringing Deathwatch into Black Crusade' which translates the older stuff into the relatively newer parlance.

 

Edited March 18 by Mazer Rackham

[Lysimachus]

Very good points, sir. I must admit I hadn't thought of going that far back to the drawing board... do we know how much of that 13k builds a basic Space Marine before adding anything for his Archetype...?

 

 

 

As a bit of a side point, I was still bored so I decided I'd see if I could build a competent Apothecary Character from the Chosen Archetype with the same xp level as the Astartes PCs currently are (2500xp). Built purely using what is allowed in the crb, and as it turns out, it's not bad, not too bad at all…

 

See below (I hope Mazer will forgive me for using Iscario as my muse for making choices…)

 

 

 

 

“Old fool. Why hasn't anyone ‘retired’ him yet?”

 

“Iscario? Maybe he's not so quick with a sword as he once was… but Seneca’s a survivor. He's as tough as an Ork's boots, knows when to duck, and he's smarter than any three of us put together. And he'll be the one holding the knife when you need patching up… so I'd be careful not to say things like that where he might hear you…” - conversation attributed to two Red Corsairs serving aboard the Wolf of Fenris.

Passions and Characteristics:

 

Pride: Craftsmanship (+1 Inf, +3Ag, +3Int, -3WS, -3BS)
Disgrace: Destruction (+2 Inf, -4Fel)
Motivation: Arcane (+4 Corruption, +2Int, -3Str)

WS: 30 -3 +8 = 35
BS: 30 -3 +13 = 40
S: 30 -3 +13 = 40
T: 30 +15 = 45 +5(Adv) = 50 +5(Adv) = 55
Ag: 30 +3 +7 = 40
Int: 30 +3 +2 +15 = 50 +5(Adv) = 55
Per: 30 + 10 = 40
WP: 30 +10 = 40
Fel: 30 -4 +9 = 35
Inf: 19+1d5(4) +1 +2 +8* = 34
Wounds: 16 +d5(3) = 19 +1(SC) = 20
Corruption: 4 +9* = 14
*Random (3d5) extra Infamy and Corruption to bring level with existing PCs.

 

 

Starting Skills, Talents, Traits:

 

As per CSM + Chosen
Chosen Options:
Dodge+10, Rapid Reload, Double Team, Deadeye Shot
Special Ability: Anatomical Training (Chosen - Cold Killer)

 

Starting Equipment:

 

Astartes Shotgun and 3 Clips (swapped from Boltgun)
Astartes Bolt Pistol with 3 Clips
Astartes Chainsword
Starting Inf: 26 = 2 Items:
Good Quality Cerebral Implants, Narthecium (Good Medikit)

Armour: Astartes Power Armour (All 8, Body 10)
Subsystems: Autosenses, Osmotic Gill, Sustainable Power Source
Customization: Careful Maintenance - Enhanced Ceramite Plating, Bio-monitor and Injectors

 

XP spends - 2400xp: (100 remaining)

 

Medicae (200, Nurgle)
Medicae+10 (350, Nurgle)
Simple T (250, Nurgle)
Survival (200, Nurgle)
Sound Constitution (250, Nurgle)

(5 more Nurgle Advances than any other, become Devoted on reaching 10CP)

Intermediate T (500 250, Nurgle)
Medicae+20 (500 400, Nurgle)
Hardy (500 300, Tier 2, Nurgle)
Simple Int (250, Unaligned)

Gifts of the Gods:
Corruption 10 - ??? (Failed Inf Check for Nurgle Gift, so 1 roll on regular Gifts table)

 

 

 

So really not bad as a Medic, it's definitely possible as a totally standard build, just need a little xp! Currently hitting a whopping base target of 95 for First Aid Tests, and would heal a very decent 7 Wounds on a Lightly Damaged Character with a successful test!!

 

Edited March 18 by Lysimachus