New Warhammer 40,000 Edition announced!

[ThePenitentOne]

Love the Abhuman detachment for Guard.  

 

Also intrigued by persistent battleshock- adds teeth to fear-based units and detachments.

[Emperor Ming]

[ThePenitentOne]

That's weird to me. 

 

If NONE of the existing 10e detachments are 3 points, that's serious power creep for every army in the game. I had assumed MOST would be 3 points, with only the under performers coming in at 2. 

[Blindhamster]

Tend to agree, I’m not even convinced all three new blood angels ones combined are as good as pure LAG or Angelic Inheritors for blood angels.

[DemonGSides]

11 minutes ago, ThePenitentOne said:

That's weird to me. 

 

If NONE of the existing 10e detachments are 3 points, that's serious power creep for every army in the game. I had assumed MOST would be 3 points, with only the under performers coming in at 2. 

 

It's marketing speak so keep that in mind. I would expect things like Gladius and LAG to be something that remains 3 points.

[jaxom]

9 minutes ago, Blindhamster said:

Tend to agree, I’m not even convinced all three new blood angels ones combined are as good as pure LAG or Angelic Inheritors for blood angels.

 

2 minutes ago, DemonGSides said:

 

It's marketing speak so keep that in mind. I would expect things like Gladius and LAG to be something that remains 3 points.

Personally, I don’t think the previewed Death Company detachment rules, stacked on top of LAG or AI, add too much power. That -at the moment- makes me okay with LAG, Gladius, etc being 2 points. I’m more worried about Librarium Conclave combined with Firestorm.

[HeadlessCross]

4 hours ago, jaxom said:

 

Personally, I don’t think the previewed Death Company detachment rules, stacked on top of LAG or AI, add too much power. That -at the moment- makes me okay with LAG, Gladius, etc being 2 points. I’m more worried about Librarium Conclave combined with Firestorm.

The Death Company one previewed is frankly trash. One model at minimum dies for the Advance + Charge. No thanks. 

[Antarius]

Yeah, the Death Company one is odd because it seems so immediately, obviously bad. I mean if that's all the detachment does, surely it could have done it with no drawback (or at least it could've been only one MW).

[Orange Knight]

So we're back to the old "I'll have Ravenguard troops, Iron Hands Tanks and Ultramarine Heroes" style of list building...

[Captain Idaho]

5 minutes ago, Orange Knight said:

So we're back to the old "I'll have Ravenguard troops, Iron Hands Tanks and Ultramarine Heroes" style of list building...

 

Appears so...

[Orange Knight]

Yeah... we should say our goodbyes to narrative.

[Rhavien]

Or say goodbye to your prejudices. Raven guard isn't the only chapter that does stealth, iron hands aren't the only competent tank operators and Ultramarines have no monopoly on heroes.

Maybe your list doesn't have to be that restricted anymore if you want to choose units which actually take an advantage out of your detachment bonus.

[Orange Knight]

6 minutes ago, Rhavien said:

Or say goodbye to your prejudices. Raven guard isn't the only chapter that does stealth, iron hands aren't the only competent tank operators and Ultramarines have no monopoly on heroes.

Maybe your list doesn't have to be that restricted anymore if you want to choose units which actually take an advantage out of your detachment bonus.

 

Yeah, I guess every army can now do everything the same as every other. Why even give us chapter keywords?

There is definite narrative erosion. We have seen this all before, we know where it leads.

Edited 8 hours ago by Orange Knight

[ThaneOfTas]

41 minutes ago, Orange Knight said:

Yeah... we should say our goodbyes to narrative.

But haven't you heard? They're making matched more narrative and narrative more matched, this is obviously going to be good for everyone and there will certainly be no losers. 

 

In fairness, they have been trying to disconnect the generic detachments from the chapters that they're obviously inspired by. So technically this doesn't have to be "I'll have Ravenguard troops, Iron Hands Tanks and Ultramarine Heroes" any more than a biker Imperial Fist force using Stormlance is actually a White Scars force.

 

Granted, if you view that as already too far (a pov that I can understand) then yeah, this is definitely an escalation in the wrong direction.

Edited 8 hours ago by ThaneOfTas

[Blindhamster]

Librarius conclave plus the stealth one would give solid blood Raven vibes

[Evil Eye]

3 minutes ago, ThaneOfTas said:

In fairness, they have been trying to disconnect the generic detachments from the chapters that they're obviously inspired by. So technically this doesn't have to be "I'll have Ravenguard troops, Iron Hands Tanks and Ultramarine Heroes" any more than a biker Imperial Fist force using Stormlance is actually a White Scars force.

This is kind of how I view it. The most important dudes in the setting are Your Dudes after all; I think this seems less like trying to push/encourage weird multi-Chapter alliances and more trying to make it easier for people to represent their own Chapters that aren't just "Imperial Fists in different colours". But then I've always been of the opinion that Chapter rules should be Chapter-agnostic with provision to represent existing Chapters, rather than "You can run your force with White Scars rules".

[Emperor Ming]

13 minutes ago, ThaneOfTas said:

But haven't you heard? They're making matched more narrative and narrative more matched, this is obviously going to be good for everyone and there will certainly be no losers. 

Wasn't that corpo speak for: its all competitive craziness now, buckle up!

[ThaneOfTas]

31 minutes ago, Emperor Ming said:

Wasn't that corpo speak for: its all competitive craziness now, buckle up!

Well yes, that is my understanding of what it means. But it is a concept that deserves ridicule.

[Galron]

So the funny part about the Persistent Battleshock thing, we have been rolling in the command phase to be un-battleshocked the entire edition. I have even played in one tournament, but it actually never came up in my games. No one I have played against outside my normal groups knew any better or said anything. I played the Nightmare Hunt the other day and kept Old One Eye and his bodyguard battle shocked the entire game since my opponent couldnt pass his morale check and we didnt think anything of it. Now some of the things I have read here on this site over the last couple years make so much more sense HAHA. One less rule I have to learn I guess.

[HeadlessCross]

2 hours ago, Orange Knight said:

 

Yeah, I guess every army can now do everything the same as every other. Why even give us chapter keywords?

There is definite narrative erosion. We have seen this all before, we know where it leads.

Chapter Keywords prevent you from taking specific units. You can pretend it's Allies Everywhere but until I can take Vulkan and Tigurius in the same army, it's not. 

[phandaal]

2 hours ago, Evil Eye said:

This is kind of how I view it. The most important dudes in the setting are Your Dudes after all; I think this seems less like trying to push/encourage weird multi-Chapter alliances and more trying to make it easier for people to represent their own Chapters that aren't just "Imperial Fists in different colours". But then I've always been of the opinion that Chapter rules should be Chapter-agnostic with provision to represent existing Chapters, rather than "You can run your force with White Scars rules".

 

Sounds like custom chapters again. The difference between the competition version of the game and the non-competition version will be similar I bet. Guys like WintersSEO will be taking things like Bolter Discipline because they think the flavor is neat, and then all the Munchkins will join the 1001st Iron Hands successor chapter. 

[Evil Eye]

4 minutes ago, phandaal said:

Sounds like custom chapters again.

That's kinda what I had in mind; something similar to the 4th edition custom chapter rules, if maybe a bit more balanced* would be cool.

 

*Even as the Emperor's strongest advocate for fluffy rules and a big fan of the 3.5/4th edition era, they definitely could have done more to make the drawbacks actually feel like drawbacks. I think the idea itself has legs, so to speak, but needed fine-tuning.

[Orange Knight]

48 minutes ago, HeadlessCross said:

Chapter Keywords prevent you from taking specific units. You can pretend it's Allies Everywhere but until I can take Vulkan and Tigurius in the same army, it's not. 

 

You're taking it too literally and missing the forest for the trees.

 

I'm not talking about keywords. I'm talking about the rules bonuses you can apply to different parts of your army.

 

You can have sneaky troops, tankier tanks and more heroic heroes. Optimise. Chose whatever benefits the particular units most with theme and narrative being secondary. 

 

This is nothing new. We have seen this before. 

[Lord Marshal]

Tyranids today.

 

 

Quote

The Hive Mind is ever-adapting, and clearly that’s still the case in the new edition of Warhammer 40,000. We’ll be back tomorrow with another Faction Focus, and this time we’re gathering around an eight-pointed sigil to summon the dark forces of the Chaos Space Marines and Chaos Daemons. Get your robe and sacrificial dagger ready!

 

Edited 4 hours ago by Lord Marshal

[irlLordy]

CSM and Daemons together eh? Hmm.