New Warhammer 40,000 Edition announced!

[Crimson Longinus]

4 hours ago, Mogger351 said:

If you buy gw and paint it anyway, if its no more expensive, then you just... paint it anyway? Still not a negative.

 

That is pretty colossal "if" though. Like do you genuinely think this won't affect the cost?

 

4 hours ago, Mogger351 said:

 

What they are for is avoiding the below.

  Reveal hidden contents

 

 

 

Which is a laudable goal, but it won't fix that, as the GW terrain will be several times more expensive than that MDF crap. And once the prepainting will be factored in the price, the difference will be even greater than it already was.

 

But of course if there will be both a cheaper unpainted version and more expensive painted version, then I really have no complaints. But I find this to be unlikely.

 

Question: how much more are people willing to pay for the prepaint?

 

 

 

Edited Wednesday at 09:38 PM by Crimson Longinus

[The Lost Son]

Painted or unpainted I hope GW finally keeps terrain available for a decent amount of time, it seems quite failed logic to showcase it and rarely have it available. I said somewhere else before that all terrain should be on a constant made to order system if they don't want to fill the shelves but it also needs to be a more reasonable price for something that will nearly always be a secondary purchase.

[Blindhamster]

27 minutes ago, Evil Eye said:

So now expecting any standard of engagement with the primary focus of a creative hobby is "gatekeeping" and thus bad. OK, good to know.

Glad you can see it at least.

 

this is a hugely varied hobby. People enjoy different parts of it, and have time and or resources for different parts of it.

 

theres a huge portion of people that enjoy the hobby for the gaming, not the building and painting or the models - therefore wanting to get things to “tabletop ready” asap and leave it at that. Equally there’s a bunch of other people that have zero interest in the game but love to make loads of cool custom models, then there are people that love making terrain and cool scenic boards. There’s even people that take their enjoyment from customising their models extensively and learn to sculpt with putty or in the modern era, CAD, to do so, wonderful! Then there’s people who like to buy just specific models to paint for competitions and nothing more, hell there’s even people who love the setting and lore but have no interest in the games or building painting. There’s even some that do all of the above.

 

all of those are 100% valid and no less indicators of a love for the hobby. We all could do with remembering that we are not the individual arbitrators of what is acceptable for the hobby, people dip their toes into different elements to different extents and that’s fine.

 

i myself love all of the above except scenery, which I typically find to be a tedious chore to build, let alone paint. I’m a decent sculptor, a decent painter, I’ve customised most models I’ve made over many years in the hobby (some

of which can be seen on these very forums), I have made gaming tables for personal use and worked on them for GW when I worked there. I’ve listened to and or read a huge portion of the black library offerings, I’ve watched most shows or films that have been made, I’ve played most computer games, I’ve entered painting comps (and won a few). 
 

so I just found the idea of you saying if i don’t want to make scenery, it’s not the hobby for me more than a little galling. 
 

[Joe]

And there's the confirmation article.

 

 

[NorthernUltramarines]

2 minutes ago, Joe said:

And there's the confirmation article.

 

 

 

Guessing those are the new Ork Bikers too? Absolutely love them, they look stunning!

[Ahzek451]

I dont dislike the idea, seems good. I just hope they sell unpainted versions. Worse still, how much more of an increase in cost.

[Marshal Loss]

New Ork Bikers look absolutely superb, this Ork refresh just keeps smashing win after win.

 

As for the terrain, hope they sell it unpainted as well. A one-stop "battlefield in a box" set is something I've been wanting from them for quite a while so it'll be disappointing if it only comes pre-painted. 

[Jscarlos18]

The ork reddit channel confirmed those are new Ork bikes.

[Osteoclast]

As someone who doesn’t really enjoy painting terrain (while I do love building and painting my models) and has been putting off painting a big cathedral bit I put together, I’m honestly all for the pre-painted terrain. Plus it will make it a lot easier to convince the local FLGS to try and shell out for (which is where I think a lot of sales will come from).

Edited Wednesday at 07:35 PM by Osteoclast

[gideon stargreave]

Im all for it. I’ve no intention of ever buying it, but the more decent quality painted  terrain people have for their tables the better. Terrain in the Cinderella of wargaming, the gluttony people have for minis is astounding, meanwhile unpainted ruins and cans of energy drink for their tables. There’s still an option for scratch building and imagination, and another now for ease of use. It’ll be expensive, but as another frater pointed out, some people don’t like the craft (and therefore the cheap) aspect. 

[Evil Eye]

1 hour ago, Blindhamster said:

Glad you can see it at least.

 

That was sarcasm.

 

First off, gatekeeping is not an inherently bad thing. There are people you don't want to share a hobby with, because they have little to no interest in actually participating and attempts to accommodate them will simply result in diluting what makes the hobby unique, or because they see the hobby as a means to push their own agenda (whatever it may be, sociopolitical or cultural or whatever) to the detriment of the community, or they're just not nice people (political extremists, creepers etc). Not wanting people that will make your hobby worse to partake in the hobby is completely normal.

 

Secondly, more importantly, what I said isn't gatekeeping. Of course I'm not saying that people that don't like painting terrain are somehow lesser hobbyists or whatever. But at this point the barrier to entry for 40K is so low it's practically underground, does it really need lowering further? Will we be selling pre-painted miniatures next? Pre-played games? A passive lament that the hobby/creativity focus of the game is being shifted away from (remember How to Make Wargames Terrain?) isn't gatekeeping. I'm not saying people that don't enjoy painting terrain shouldn't be in the hobby, I'm just saying I don't think a shift towards more pre-made zero-effort stuff is really a good thing.

 

For the record, the problem isn't the terrain itself, which is alright I suppose; it's more what it signals for the direction GW will be taking. The game has already been horrifically simplified and the fluff atrociously sanitized for the sake of a wider audience, and I'd rather we didn't make it any more bland and engagement-free than it already is. Also whilst it's definitely a step up from the L-shaped MDF ruins, it is somewhat depressing to think basically every FLGS will have tables with the exact same terrain on them down to the paintjob.

 

(I'd also argue terrain painting would be less of a headache if GW would stop monstrously overdetailing every single model they put out but that's another can of worms.)

[Blindhamster]

Appreciate you giving a more detailed explanation. I don’t agree with most of it obviously but I do understand the wider sentiment of concern for the changes in a hobby we have grown up with. I like some that I know you don’t, and both views are totally fine. 

 

amusing we both enjoy a bit of sarcasm too, as my pointing that out was in and of itself also sarcasm (common ground!).

 

I think a low barrier to entry is a good thing, it supports a variety of players that way. Most of my regular gaming group have neither the time or desire to paint, I’ve gradually pulled them all into it to varied degrees, most wouldn’t do terrain though, a bridge too far, as it were. 
 

I don’t think these sets will preclude custom stuff, I could see GW moving toward this being the norm for their scenery, but with Etsy, eBay, other suppliers or just 3d printing there are so so many options for cool terrain anyway that the hobbyists that want to do cool stuff will continue to do so. Just like we have continued to convert and customise our models through the years regardless of how GW push things 

Edited Wednesday at 09:03 PM by Blindhamster

[nodnol88]

They need to do a full table worth combo box that’s undoubtedly expensive but offers a discount over buying it individually. 

[Karhedron]

23 hours ago, Jukkiz said:

Heavy bolt rifle is still bolt weapon. But Heavy intercessors are wearing Gravis and Gravis situation is another can of worms. 

Gravis units being,
Inceptors, Plasma/Bolt jumpy unit
Heavy intercessors. heavy bolt rifle on foot unit
Aggressors. Rockets and bolt gauntlets on foot closecombat unit 

Eradicators, melta short ranged unit. (heavy bolter unit soon aswell)

wouldn´t it be better to make Eradicators and Heavy intercessors one unit, with 3 different weapon options, plus extras? 

 

I break it down by battlefield role and armour type rather than weapon type. 

 

Tacticus

Line infantry: Intercessors, Assault Intercessors 

Fast attack: Jump Assault Intercessors,  Suppressors? (Technically Omnis)

Heavy support: Hellblasters, Infernus, Desolators

 

Phobos

Line Infantry: Infiltrators, Incursions

Fast attack: Reivers

Heavy support: Eliminators

 

Gravis

Line infantry: Heavy Intercessors

Fast attack: Inceptors

Heavy support: Aggressors, Eradicators 

Edited Wednesday at 10:15 PM by Karhedron

[Paturabo]

2 minutes ago, Karhedron said:

Phobos

Fast attack: Riverside

 

I know this was autocorrect but the image of skull masked Reivers having a relaxing beach day along a river is very funny to me. Maybe some of them using the grapnel launchers to fish as they sit on industrial grade folding chairs.

[HeadlessCross]

5 hours ago, Evil Eye said:

Realistically, if someone isn't interested in putting any effort into the painting/modelling side of a painting/modelling based hobby, then that hobby probably isn't for them, and attempting to accommodate them will only dilute the experience for the already-established base. It'd be like bringing store-bought cakes to a baking group; yes it lowers the barrier to entry but it completely defeats the point of the hobby.

So how do you about people that commission painters for their models?

2 hours ago, Evil Eye said:

First off, gatekeeping is not an inherently bad thing. There are people you don't want to share a hobby with, because they have little to no interest in actually participating

So is the hobby Warhammer or tabletop gaming?

[ThaneOfTas]

9 hours ago, Lord Marshal said:

Some details on the Dominatus narrative deck.

 

 

So back to this.

 

It looks as bland and shallow as I expected. Its like they looked at crusade, stripped 90% of the interesting stuff out of it purely so that they could appeal to people who never wanted to play crusade in the first place. 

 

You know, I'm starting to think that this idea of making Narrative more Competitive and Competitive more Narrative is really just taking Narrative out behind the woodshed and then draping some scraps of its hide over Competitive. 

[DemonGSides]

You can keep playing with the current crusade content that is already pretty good. Nothing about current crusade stuff requires it to be 10th; maybe a little massaging required but not much.

[Nephaston]

I wouldn't call out narrative as dead just yet, at least until we see how the a codex is structured. With some luck they moved all the Crusade stuff proper into a each factions codex. Along with crucible rules *huffs a near lethal dose of hopium*

[ThaneOfTas]

21 minutes ago, Nephaston said:

I wouldn't call out narrative as dead just yet, at least until we see how the a codex is structured. With some luck they moved all the Crusade stuff proper into a each factions codex. Along with crucible rules *huffs a near lethal dose of hopium*

They literally said that crusade is gone in the unboxing video and that this deck is replacing it. Not sure how it could be in the codexs, mayb they'll do faction specific card packs with the data cards or something, which frankly also sounds awful. Crucible stuff seems more likely but at this point it wouldn't shock me to see that left to die in the vine too.

Edited yesterday at 12:10 AM by ThaneOfTas

[jaxom]

Crucible would be a slam dunk to put in new codexes. Oh well.

[Orange Knight]

I actually empathise with @Evil Eye's position on the subject of gatekeeping. Perhaps the term doesn't quite explain the position well. 

 

I recognise that the 40k community, like many other hobby communities, can be "infiltrated" by bad-faith actors and tourists that don't actually care for the source material. The worst type of hobby tourists are the ones known as "terraformers" - people that don't care for any established norms/lore/practices/cultures etc etc and seek to overhaul or change things for the sake of change.

 

There are multiple examples of fictional settings that have been degraded, so a level of concern about the hobby isn't without merit. But this is a tricky subject because it's also entirely subjective. Some people hate Primaris, and I do agree that their initial intoduction was botched, but the lore and stories that involve them have been some of the best in the setting - they just took a few years to properly manifest.

We have to be careful about where that line is drawn If we start passing judgement on which aspects of the hobby certain people want to engage with or not, we walk the line of "Elitism"
If someone wants to only collect models, and ignore the game entirely, they are perfectly entitled to do so. The same applies to someone who loves every aspect of the hobby aside from painting. And if I love painiting models, but hate painting terrain, then no one can lecture me about wanting to invest in pre-painted terrain sets or not lol

Edited 15 hours ago by Brother Tyler
Removed provocative comment

[Lord Blacksteel]

A reminder that pre-painted terrain has been on the market and widely available for years. See the "Battlefield in a Box" line for one example. Some of it is pretty well done.  I realize GW entering that market could have an impact, especially with them directing players towards certain terrain layouts and then producing pre-painted versions of those layouts but outside of maybe the tournament scene  no one should feel obligated to use them.  Let's also remember GW sold pre-painted terrain before - I'm sure some of the rest of you still have some of it - the painted and flocked foam circular shrine ruin has featured in a bunch of battles I've played over the last 15+ years. I can't remember the official name for it but they've stuck their toe in this before.

And terrain choices are not mutually exclusive - I have GW stuff I have pained, I have other companies' stuff I have painted, I have stuff purchased from other people that they made from scratch, and I have stuff I have built from scratch. There's no mono-commitment there.

[Antarius]

I don't really think there are a lot of people who get into the hobby just to spoil it for the rest of us. I think it's more that we have a tendency to think that all the "veterans" must be in the hobby for the same reasons we are, and so, people who disagree with us on fundamental hobby stuff must be new and/or acting in bad faith. But in reality, they are just people that don't agree with us.

As an example, all the people I have actually taken the time to talk to/discuss with about wanting female space marines have been hobby veterans. I don't agree with them (it's not that I think FSM would be the end of the world, I would just personally prefer them not to be retconned in), but they're not "kids" or "tourists" or "infiltrators", they just have a different perspective on what's cool about the lore than I do.

At the end of the day, GW is gonna do what GW is gonna do regardless of how we feel about these things (personally, I actually think they've been pretty good at both rejecting "hobby tribalism" and watering down their universes so far, even when they've made decisions I personally disagreed with).

[Antarius]

3 minutes ago, Lord Blacksteel said:

A reminder that pre-painted terrain has been on the market and widely available for years. See the "Battlefield in a Box" line for one example. Some of it is pretty well done.  I realize GW entering that market could have an impact, especially with them directing players towards certain terrain layouts and then producing pre-painted versions of those layouts but outside of maybe the tournament scene  no one should feel obligated to use them.  Let's also remember GW sold pre-painted terrain before - I'm sure some of the rest of you still have some of it - the painted and flocked foam circular shrine ruin has featured in a bunch of battles I've played over the last 15+ years. I can't remember the official name for it but they've stuck their toe in this before.

And terrain choices are not mutually exclusive - I have GW stuff I have pained, I have other companies' stuff I have painted, I have stuff purchased from other people that they made from scratch, and I have stuff I have built from scratch. There's no mono-commitment there.

Absolutely! Personally, I think it's great fun to build and paint terrain and I think it's sad that GW have been moving away from that in many ways. The flipside is that they've given us a lot of great terrain kits that can either stand on their own or be incorporated into our own builds, so it's not all bad. And of course, for most tables, the real alternative would be unpainted MDF.

Still, I very much think it would be a shame if the terrain-making/painting part of the hobby disappeared, but there's lots of non-GW resources out there and, just like with most of the other aspects of the creative part of the hobby, "mix and match" is usually the way to go.