Only War Introduction (Pre-Game Topic)

[Lord_Ikka]

Phlegmatic or Bilious would be interesting

[Machine God]

29 minutes ago, Mazer Rackham said:

'I'm Connor McCloud of the Clan McCloud. Y'all.'

 

This pleases me. Y'all from Montana, and I's frae Monmouthshire.

 

The only niggle I have is that mountain troops are generally lighter infantry. Ain't no-one heaving a Basilisk up Ben Nevis.

 

 

Cue an Ogryn pushing a Basilisk up the mountain side of Ben Nevis. 

 

"Maks only pawn in Game of Life!" 

 

 

 

[Lysimachus]

37 minutes ago, Mazer Rackham said:

The only niggle I have is that mountain troops are generally lighter infantry. Ain't no-one heaving a Basilisk up Ben Nevis.

 

 

I'd agree, no vehicle Regiments... but we haven't got any Operators anyway. I still quite like Line Infantry Regiment; strong, reasonably well equipped individuals? Strong enough to wear full Flak up a mountain, laddie!

 

Commander is an odd one. So we don't get the listed benefits, only he does? I might be inclined to keep it cheap and go Phlegmatic for (1)?

 

 

[Mojake]

6 minutes ago, Lysimachus said:

but we haven't got any Operators anyway.

 

I don't think any characters are set in stone yet other than Blackjack. We still need a Sergeant too...

 

11 minutes ago, Lysimachus said:

Commander is an odd one. So we don't get the listed benefits, only he does?

 

It's unclear, I assumed no, but then the costs don't make too much sense...

 

I'll make a call here and say you also get them, doesn't seem to be any guidance online.

[Xin Ceithan]

Since I enjoy world building and have no rule book on which to rate the regimental benefits, I am still throwing in some random thoughts

 

If civilization is based on the “Mountain Islands” ( which are propably the size of small nations ) and the various cowboy clans on them - do they give up on the “Green Sea” ( of Grass ) in between entirely? How does trade work between those islands?

 

I’d guess if it’s all meadows and nomadic vehicle ranches of roaming grow herds than it would be classified as an Agriworld not “Frontier”? 
 

I don’t know if that’s already a vehicle regiment but mobile infantry on motor bikes ? With kilt wearing cowboys? 
 

Maybe there’s roaming tribes of beastmen and beasts in the grass jungles?

 

If it’s so dangerous - maybe their specialty is Siege Regiments but more WWII Island hopping / cave fighting?

 

Even  line infantry might just fight from/ supported by land battleships / carries cruising the grassy flats in waves and grand formations  - so it’s less Tanita Scous and more Waterloo a isst the tall grass ?

 

Dropped from airships? The whole set up practically screams Air Cav to me…

The Elysians have drop capable Sentinels, so there’s an STC for that - which might make for some fine fire support for mountainous warfare, too?  

 

 

 

 

[Mazer Rackham]

My vote for Phlegmatic.

 

I've been musing. This gets ahead of ourselves a little, but I've had a moment to ruminate.

 

Does Frontier mean the same thing to everyone? Is it a Frontier World or a Frontier World? I was just thinking that whilst the description does lead itself to meta Northwest Passage in the character of the legion, it also applies to the local system strategically. As a Frontier World, we are on the borders of known space. There be bastards and scum aplenty just waiting to pull our toes off to find out where we hide the sugar.

 

How would you develop an army, a force, to prevail on a rough world which can, at any time be raided or cut off by some twonk with a few ships?

 

From FFG notes on the Calixis Sector:

Frontier Worlds have only recently been discovered by the Imperium and are home to a relatively small number of colonists. The Administratum may not have even had sufficient time to fully explore the world and set up government. Frontier worlds can be a refuge for those who want to escape from the repressive Imperial regime (for a time at least), though they can also be a destination for those who want to escape its justice too, and have a reputation for lawlessness as a result.

 

So, we're talking tight-knit groups of citizen soldiery, working within a network of outposts across swathes of variable terrain which may or may not be full of horny Drooks. Cavalry is a good way to go here, since beasts of burden can climb hills. Rough-Riders, dragoons, airborne infantry, light mobile vehicles, that kind of thing. Ogryns limit the Cavalry options, so we have to for some manner of transport we don't have to Operate, which leaves us with helicopters and Shanks' Pony.

 

If we walk, we can't carry a lot of crap, because lots of crap is heavy. If we ride Helo, we can carry crap, but not too much, because lots of crap is heavy.

 

If we go for the Rapid Recon Regiment, we all get Operate (Surface) and a jeep. Unfortunately it's 8 Points. Thankfully, we can buy some back with Drawbacks, one of which might be appropriate for us would be Iconoclasts. It makes us a bit thorny around priests, but if one of lads wanted to be that Archetype, he now has a reason, mission (in every sense of that word) and friction.

 

These are just some of my thoughts.

 

I don't mind wearing a kilt and bagpipes, or being part of a Line Regiment, after all they do go into the hills and dales.

[Machine God]

3 hours ago, Mazer Rackham said:

My vote for Phlegmatic.

 

I've been musing. This gets ahead of ourselves a little, but I've had a moment to ruminate.

 

Does Frontier mean the same thing to everyone? Is it a Frontier World or a Frontier World? I was just thinking that whilst the description does lead itself to meta Northwest Passage in the character of the legion, it also applies to the local system strategically. As a Frontier World, we are on the borders of known space. There be bastards and scum aplenty just waiting to pull our toes off to find out where we hide the sugar.

 

How would you develop an army, a force, to prevail on a rough world which can, at any time be raided or cut off by some twonk with a few ships?

 

From FFG notes on the Calixis Sector:

Frontier Worlds have only recently been discovered by the Imperium and are home to a relatively small number of colonists. The Administratum may not have even had sufficient time to fully explore the world and set up government. Frontier worlds can be a refuge for those who want to escape from the repressive Imperial regime (for a time at least), though they can also be a destination for those who want to escape its justice too, and have a reputation for lawlessness as a result.

 

So, we're talking tight-knit groups of citizen soldiery, working within a network of outposts across swathes of variable terrain which may or may not be full of horny Drooks. Cavalry is a good way to go here, since beasts of burden can climb hills. Rough-Riders, dragoons, airborne infantry, light mobile vehicles, that kind of thing. Ogryns limit the Cavalry options, so we have to for some manner of transport we don't have to Operate, which leaves us with helicopters and Shanks' Pony.

 

If we walk, we can't carry a lot of crap, because lots of crap is heavy. If we ride Helo, we can carry crap, but not too much, because lots of crap is heavy.

 

If we go for the Rapid Recon Regiment, we all get Operate (Surface) and a jeep. Unfortunately it's 8 Points. Thankfully, we can buy some back with Drawbacks, one of which might be appropriate for us would be Iconoclasts. It makes us a bit thorny around priests, but if one of lads wanted to be that Archetype, he now has a reason, mission (in every sense of that word) and friction.

 

These are just some of my thoughts.

 

I don't mind wearing a kilt and bagpipes, or being part of a Line Regiment, after all they do go into the hills and dales.

 

All right don't go on about it! 

 

 

Anyway I want Hardened Fighters 

 

 

 

Edited 8 hours ago by Machine God
Got rid of rudeness

[Lysimachus]

@Xin Ceithan @Mazer Rackham

 

Excellent points.

 

When i said Highland/Wild West, I wasn't suggesting kilts/bagpipes, or stetsons/duster coats, or particular accents... 

 

(...though IG in dusters could be kinda cool...?)

 

Do any of the Training Doctrines get helos (or Valkyries in 40k, I guess?)

 

I'd struggle to get behind Rapid Recon - 8 points is very, very expensive. (Like seriously, is that a typo? What's so good about Tauros?)

 

But I like the Iconoclasts, I think that would fit the character of the world nicely, and give us a few extra points to spend! 

 

 

@Machine God

 

Manners please. I do think Hardened Fighters is a nice Doctrine, though.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[A.T.]

Melancholic commander gets a range increase on abilities which could be useful.

[Mojake]

9 minutes ago, Lysimachus said:

I'd struggle to get behind Rapid Recon - 8 points is very, very expensive. (Like seriously, is that a typo? What's so good about Tauros?)

 

8 points because it's one Tauros per PC 

 

9 minutes ago, Lysimachus said:

Do any of the Training Doctrines get helos (or Valkyries in 40k, I guess?)

 

Close Assault mentions Chimera or another Transport at GM discretion, 5pts with vehicle.

[Mazer Rackham]

7 minutes ago, A.T. said:

Melancholic commander gets a range increase on abilities which could be useful.

 

Has anyone got the Command Skill bar the Sergeant?

 

2 minutes ago, Mojake said:

8 points because it's one Tauros per PC 

 

And a couple can be swapped with Venators.

 

EDIT: That reminds me - GM, how will you work the Hellgun? The Errata says I get 3 magazines for it, but the Hellgun entry says I get a charge pack which gives me 30 shots. There's also a backpack which gives me 80, but that will be Logistics.

 

What advice, please?

 

Edited 10 hours ago by Mazer Rackham

[Machine God]

4 minutes ago, Lysimachus said:

@Xin Ceithan @Mazer Rackham

 

Excellent points.

 

@Machine God

 

Manners please. I do think Hardened Fighters is a nice Doctrine, though.

 

 

@Lysimachus - Sorry. It was meant in the spirit of jokey bonhomie between friends. Although I can see that it could be construed as rude. 

 

Sorry. 

 

Perhaps the Regimental Home world is a Frontier World. 

 

 

 

 

[Lysimachus]

Just a thought that popped into my head based on what Xin said above, has anyone seen that Anthony Mackie film Elevation?

 

It's not great in itself (IMHO)... but the basic idea of monsters that only live below a certain altitude, so people are forced to stay above the line, could maybe work for our world?

 

If it's a relatively newly settled world, that might explain why the Imperium hasn't come in and wiped the beasties out yet?

[Lysimachus]

10 minutes ago, Mojake said:

 

8 points because it's one Tauros per PC 

 

 

 

 

Oh. Ok, cost makes more sense. 

 

I'm not sure I like it, though. I think maybe I'd prefer sticking to being the 'poor bloody infantry', just feels more 'classic Guard'? That's just my opinion, though.

 

Edited 10 hours ago by Lysimachus

[Machine God]

9 minutes ago, Lysimachus said:

 

It's not great in itself (IMHO)... but the basic idea of monsters that only live below a certain altitude, so people are forced to stay above the line, could maybe work for our world?

 

 

So it's the opposite of Barbarus? 

 

 

 

[Mazer Rackham]

As long as it's not the opposite of Barbarella.

 

That is a very different type of agricultural milking machine.

[Necronaut]

@Mazer Rackham AFAIK the commissar is the only other starting specialty to start off with command.

[Mojake]

15 minutes ago, Mazer Rackham said:

EDIT: That reminds me - GM, how will you work the Hellgun? The Errata says I get 3 magazines for it, but the Hellgun entry says I get a charge pack which gives me 30 shots. There's also a backpack which gives me 80, but that will be Logistics.

 

 

Good question, it isn't clearly laid out. I think, in the spirit of what a hellgun is, getting a single backpack of 80 shots makes sense.

 

22 minutes ago, Mazer Rackham said:

Has anyone got the Command Skill bar the Sergeant?

 

Commissar.

 

14 minutes ago, Lysimachus said:

I'm not sure I like it, though. I think maybe I'd prefer sticking to being the 'poor bloody infantry', just feels more 'classic Guard'?

 

I know what you mean. I think it's meant to invoke Rough Riders in jeeps sort of vibes, or something like the dinosaur capture scene in JW Lost World.

[Necronaut]

@Mojake Dino-riders of Jurassica? Triceratops counts-as a rhino and t-rex as a scout walker (with added teeth)? How's that for a frontier world vibe?

 

Edit: and yes before any of you pedants pile on me, I know fully well that the tyrannosaurs and triceratopses were from the Cretaceous period, but the Flesh Tearers already nicked that spot.

 

Although, the thought occurs that we could go for a Meso-American/lizardmen vibe with this lot as a frontier world (really I suppose that would be more of a feudal/primitive world).

Edited 10 hours ago by Necronaut

[Lysimachus]

Predatory dinosaurs could be the lower altitude 'monsters'?

 

[Lysimachus]

I think this is going to be a balancing act to get to the magic ‘12’, so I wonder if we sort of need to try to start taking everything into consideration all at once? So, with that in mind, can we start throwing out some more fleshed out ideas and see which bits of them stick?

 

The following is what I came up with, based on the choices we've made so far. Again, it is not intended to be the finished product (unless everyone loves it, I guess?) but just what I thought I might put together to represent a ‘basic’ Line Regiment hailing from the world we're creating? (Not saying that is the Regiment type we should use either)

 

 

 

Home World:
Frontier (4)
+3 to any 2 of: Ag, Per, BS
Skills: Awareness, Low Gothic, Navigation(Surface), Survival
Combat Sense or Quick Draw
Independent Operation
Distrustful of Authority

Commanding Officer
Phlegmatic (1)
Common Lore(Imperial Guard, War)

Training:
Line Infantry (2)
+3Str, -3Int,
Athletics,
Rapid Reload,
M36 Lasgun, 4 Charge Packs, Flak Armour, 2 Frags, 2 Kraks

Doctrines:
Die Hards (3)
Starting Aptitude - Toughness
(Toughness just feels appropriate, and if your planned Character Archetype gains the same Aptitude from multiple sources, you are allowed pick an alternative Characteristic-named Aptitude instead, so no-one misses out)

Hardened Fighters (2)
+2WS,
Street Fighting,
Swap standard melee weapon for Common (or lower rarity) Low Tech weapon, or apply Mono to standard melee weapon
(MG's pick, but I think it fits well for a bunch of rowdy mountain men!)

Sappers (3)
+2Int,
Security, Tech-Use, Trade(Technomat),
Technical Knock,
Lascutter
Improved rolls against structures
(I included Sappers just because I thought it gave us more useful Skills, ones that would be fitting for people from mountainous terrain and are used to working independently? Tech-Use for all is especially helpful, especially if you don't have an Enginseer around!)

Drawbacks:
Iconoclasts (-3)
Issues with Ecclesiarchy.
(As Mazer said, this feels appropriate for pragmatically minded frontiersmen. Not that they don't believe in the Emperor, but just don't have much time for gold-encrusted templums and fat, lazy priests?)

Total: 12

A solid, no-nonsense Regiment of rugged, independent frontiersmen, skilled, practically minded, and well-equipped, able to take on any task.

 

 

 

Edited 9 hours ago by Lysimachus

[Machine God]

34 minutes ago, Lysimachus said:

Predatory dinosaurs could be the lower altitude 'monsters'?

 

 

All the settlers look like

Doug McClure?

 

 

 

[Mazer Rackham]

If we take Line Infantry that means I lose out on a Talent due to the interactions with my Specialty and Homeworld giving me the option of Quick Draw OR Rapid Reload twice. I can't double-up.

 

GM, with your permission, I have a couple of other Chargen Talent Picks which are 'Either' would it be possible to take one of those alternatives as a substitute?

 

Edited 9 hours ago by Mazer Rackham

[Mojake]

25 minutes ago, Lysimachus said:

I think this is going to be a balancing act to get to the magic ‘12’, so I wonder if we sort of need to try to start taking everything into consideration all at once?

 

Exactly, so once we have Home World and CO out of the way, we'll do all doctrines and drawbacks in one vote/discussion to account for the point costs.

 

It looks like Phlegmatic is the option most are going for, but I'd like to give it a full day just so everyone has had chance to say their piece - somebody might come out with a blinder for fluff or a rule justification previously unthought of.

 

6 minutes ago, Mazer Rackham said:

GM, with your permission, I have a couple of other Chargen Talent Picks which are 'Either' would it be possible to take one of those alternatives as a substitute?

 

Hang fire for now until we've got the regiment nailed down, then we can look at interactions between picks.

[Lysimachus]

36 minutes ago, Mojake said:

Exactly, so once we have Home World and CO out of the way, we'll do all doctrines and drawbacks in one vote/discussion to account for the point costs.

 

 

Apologies, I was probably jumping too far ahead.

 

 

45 minutes ago, Mazer Rackham said:

If we take Line Infantry that means I lose out on a Talent due to the interactions with my Specialty and Homeworld giving me the option of Quick Draw OR Rapid Reload twice. I can't double-up.

 

GM, with your permission, I have a couple of other Chargen Talent Picks which are 'Either' would it be possible to take one of those alternatives as a substitute?

 

 

 

Well, fudge.

 

I just looked at the starting skills/talents gained by a Weapon Specialist, and realised that the Regiment suggestion I made above basically doubles up everything he already gets…

 

Altheltics… already got it.
Survival… already got it.
Nav(Surface)... already got it.
Common Lore(IG and War)... already got it.
Rapid Reload… already got it.

 

Literally the only thing he'd gain that he didn't already have from the Regiment rules would be Lasgun Barrage… which only works on semi/full auto, and is therefore useless on a Long-las sniper…