Codex: Space Marines | Multi-Part Intercessor & Vanguard Vet Teaser | Legends Culling

[Nephaston]

Love the tiny bit of sass in Ironclad Champions; "yes of course I always liked Iron Hands, and didn't just buy a force, sprayed them black because they're meta. The flesh is weak and stuff"

[Lathe Biosas]

So, I don't need to buy the Special Friends of Guilliman codex after all to run Dark Angels.

 

This is excellent news.

[Ahzek451]

15 detachments, oof. I remember when strats were new, and they GW made a ton and fans said, "too many". They said "I gotchu", instead of reducing them, split them across detachments. I feel like we are following the same pattern with detachments(for good or ill). I  just hope GW can manage power level in the rules and cost in detachments to prevent any big "Feels bad" when it comes to combos. They already have in some ways with some of the temporary ones. Would hate to see an Iron hands combo that makes sense, but because one is eventually deemed too powerful, gets an increase in cost and locks it out from pairing with the other that would otherwise pair wonderfully from a lore perspective. Because GW is more likely to fiddle with costs vs. rule adjustments. And if that starts locking detachments combos out...that would be a huge bummer and oversight. If the detachment is too powerful, make it less powerful. Don't punish the player by locking it out. Here is hoping. 

Edited September 11 by Ahzek451

[LSM]

Divergent Chapter Codexes (not supplements)?

 

Are they getting the Cult Legion treatment?

 

(Or just me reading too much into it?)

 

Edited September 11 by LSM

[Mogger351]

4 minutes ago, LSM said:

Divergent Chapter Codexes (not supplements)?

 

Are they getting the Cult Legion treatment?

 

(Or just me reading too much into it?)

 

I thought about it tbh, the wording is a bit vague but it would remove a whole slew of balancing issues.

[Blindhamster]

will be interesting if it reintroduces the issues we had before then (disparity in rules for the same units, long waits core marine stuff that was always clearly intended for divergents etc).

 

I *think* maybe they can do it better now, if anything this actual update will be the proof of it.

[Subtleknife]

Seems fun. 

 

I do hope that if they are putting special snowflake chapters in their own book they lose access to some of the vanilla options.

 

For instance, BT have a marshall, they probably shouldn't be able to take a normal captain. There would need to be some work required for characters that they don't have an analogous for ie gravis captain.

[jaxom]

What's interesting, to me, is how Chapter-agnostic the detachments seem from the descriptions and previews given. It makes the Chapter-specific detachments feel more special. I also like that the detachments are focused on broader classes of units; it helps them feel more universal, something any Chapter would do even if they had a different name for it.

[01RTB01]

7 hours ago, Orange Knight said:

On the topic of rules being complicated or not, I would say that AdMech require more attention and bookkeeping to play correctly than any army in any wargame that I've played in the last 30 years...

Can I introduce you to the Campaign of North Africa? :) 

[Lathe Biosas]

11 minutes ago, 01RTB01 said:

Can I introduce you to the Campaign of North Africa? :) 

 

Only if you finish the game first. 

[HeadlessCross]

1 minute ago, Lathe Biosas said:

 

Only if you finish the game first. 

Fun Fact: there's not a single record of anyone completing the game. 

[Indy Techwisp]

17 minutes ago, HeadlessCross said:

Fun Fact: there's not a single record of anyone completing the game. 

 

If he's not lying or delusional, Valefisk may be close to a finished game.

[Orange Knight]

2 hours ago, Lathe Biosas said:

So, I don't need to buy the Special Friends of Guilliman codex after all to run Dark Angels.

 

This is excellent news.

 

So how will this work?

 

There will be an entire index to download for the extra chapters? Like 90+ datasheets?

[Karhedron]

28 minutes ago, Orange Knight said:

So how will this work?

 

There will be an entire index to download for the extra chapters? Like 90+ datasheets?

 

The Index will cover the same as the existing Codex supplements. You will get the chapter-specific special units and characters as well as one or more detachments for them. If you want to run any standard SM units like Intercessors, you will need the new Codex.

 

In theory, you can run an army just using the Index if you wish to use nothing from the vanilla codex. Space Wolves are the only ones who would find this somewhat possible as they have 2 decent bespoke Battleline units but they would have almost no vehicles. Blood Angels and Dark Angels would be possible in theory but almost unusable in practice. Maybe Death Company and Ravenwing/Deathwing armies but not much else.

[DemonGSides]

We won't know til next week, when they tell us.

 

My guess is that you will still need Codex Space Marines, at least in the short term.  Then there will be indexed versions of the specialist units, and then when their full codexes release you'll just need their codex.  This would maximize number of books sold for GW while also keeping number of books carried to a minimum.  Not ideal, but that's my expectation.

[Ammonius]

Perhaps separate Codices for Divergent Chapters will also allow more room for art and lore?

[Son of Rawl]

33 minutes ago, Ammonius said:

Perhaps separate Codices for Divergent Chapters will also allow more room for art and lore?

We can hope.

 

It could also be the Divergent Chapters will get a seperate rule instead of the Doctrines, thats something I would like to see.

[Xenith]

4 hours ago, LSM said:

Divergent Chapter Codexes (not supplements)?

 

Are they getting the Cult Legion treatment?

 

(Or just me reading too much into it?)

 

 

Blood angels already have differently priced core units to space marines - like assault intercessors. 

[Lathe Biosas]

As a side note, Dark Angels players think of all other Chapters as being "Divergent Chapters"

 

They were the first, and they don't need a book to help them fight....

 

Oh... that's it! The Guilliman Chapters need a Codex to play the game! All the other "non-book" Chapters get a print out! It all makes sense now.

 

GW is being super fluffy for this Space Marine Codex release. 

[Moonstalker]

4 hours ago, Lathe Biosas said:

As a side note, Dark Angels players think of all other Chapters as being "Divergent Chapters"

 

They were the first, and they don't need a book to help them fight....

 

Oh... that's it! The Guilliman Chapters need a Codex to play the game! All the other "non-book" Chapters get a print out! It all makes sense now.

 

GW is being super fluffy for this Space Marine Codex release. 

 

So Space Wolves are going to pass on their rules by oral recitation?  Special closed session at the local GW, where we bring in beer and meat and the blackshirt tells us our sagas?

[Wormwoods]

15, good grief. I look forward to picking one option for the edition and pretending that's just how Space Marines work. It was Firestorm in 10th, let's see what it is for 11th!

[Nephaston]

19 minutes ago, Wormwoods said:

15, good grief. I look forward to picking one option for the edition and pretending that's just how Space Marines work. It was Firestorm in 10th, let's see what it is for 11th!

 

With how these are set up the "default" would be gladius as any other choice leaves you with leftover detachment points. In your case, and I'm guessing here, it'll probably be a combination of Gauntlet Task Force, doctrine brethren of your choice, and whatever armour-type detachment takes you fancy.

[HeadlessCross]

1 hour ago, Wormwoods said:

15, good grief. I look forward to picking one option for the edition and pretending that's just how Space Marines work. It was Firestorm in 10th, let's see what it is for 11th!

Orks got the same amount of detachments in their codex and nobody has said anything 

[01RTB01]

3 hours ago, Nephaston said:

 

With how these are set up the "default" would be gladius as any other choice leaves you with leftover detachment points. In your case, and I'm guessing here, it'll probably be a combination of Gauntlet Task Force, doctrine brethren of your choice, and whatever armour-type detachment takes you fancy.

 

If the ork codex is anything to go by, gladius will be 3 and the rest will be one.

 

It's made list building a lot more fun and means you don't have to lean into one thing for your force. 

[RWJP]

I think anyone expecting full Codexes for the divergent chapters is setting themselves up for massive disappointment... The reason they have supplements, not full Codexes, currently is because of just how many shared units there are. The God-Specific Chaos Legions work as separate Codexes because they don't share that many datasheets with regular Chaos Space Marines, and the core of their armies are unique datasheets. Every God-Specific Legion has it's own battleline unit for example while BA and DA don't.

Going back to full Codexes means one of two things happens in my eyes: Either you get massive duplication of datasheets, which leads to balancing issues, weird disparities between Codex Marines and Divergent Marines, Divergent Marines having to wait for stuff that Codex Marines have for a while etc etc, or you get a massively stripped down range of units available to you. Considering how many people here have expressed frustration at the loss of Firstborn I can certainly imagine they would also be very unhappy about losing other models!

Edited September 12 by RWJP