Codex: Space Marines | Multi-Part Intercessor & Vanguard Vet Teaser | Legends Culling

[Lathe Biosas]

6 hours ago, mel_danes said:

That's the Cawl cylinder.

All the Primaris ranged weapons have them.

There is no in world description of function.

 

The Warhammer 40k RPG Wrath & Glory lists it as a Ballistic Appeasement Auto Reliquaries (Absolutis Pattern).

 

It contains a specialized, localized machine-spirit engineered by Archmagos Belisarius Cawl. Its primary function is to automatically detect weapon fouling or jams, soothing the gun's war-spirit to instantly restore functionality in the heat of battle. 

[Mogger351]

Call me a wild madman, but I still think the stats changes are the big centrepiece of the release. Whether marketing wanted a hype button in the face of a drab release, or whether they played it safe knowing they had an I-win on the engagement front in their pocket, or neither, we'll never know.

[Arkley]

OK after sleeping on this over night...

 

I went from thinking I would buy it all and spending about £250-£300 to just not bothering spending a penny.

 

The Eradicators being retooled just tilted me so hard its unreal.

 

 

[Orange Knight]

48 minutes ago, Mogger351 said:

Call me a wild madman, but I still think the stats changes are the big centrepiece of the release. Whether marketing wanted a hype button in the face of a drab release, or whether they played it safe knowing they had an I-win on the engagement front in their pocket, or neither, we'll never know.

 

Absolutely. Not a hot take at all.

 

These stat changes have the potential to make old units feel new, and completely shift the way some things behave or play on the tabletop. Fingers crossed!

I can't wait to get back into theory crafting lists.

 

I'm not as disappointed as some about this release wave because the units fill the holes that the Primaris range had, making the army feel complete. 

[Karhedron]

2 hours ago, Mogger351 said:

Call me a wild madman, but I still think the stats changes are the big centrepiece of the release. Whether marketing wanted a hype button in the face of a drab release, or whether they played it safe knowing they had an I-win on the engagement front in their pocket, or neither, we'll never know.

 

You may be right. There is nothing bad in the release but not really anything exciting either.

 

One thought that crossed my mind is that next year is 40K's 40th birthday. I wonder if they are holding back some big shiny releases for the birthday year.

[Lord Marshal]

I have to wonder if this is also GW flirting with the idea of releasing kits throughout an edition, rather than frontloading everything in a codex. We may have seen some of that with the 'Chapter Champions' that appeared before the usual series of end of edition campaign books, as well as the Xenos characters who weren't tied to any book in particular.

 

Might line up with those rumours of (iirc) updated Land Raiders and such coming later. That or maybe they'll just tack some 'generic' Marine stuff on to the various chapters codex/supplement releases?

 

Edited September 14 by Lord Marshal

[jaxom]

6 minutes ago, Lord Marshal said:

I have to wonder if this is also GW flirting with the idea of releasing kits throughout an edition

Good point, especially if they’re replacing kits. The unit would already be in the codex, so no need to release it alongside a book or pdf.

[LSM]

50 minutes ago, Lord Marshal said:

Might line up with those rumours of (iirc) updated Land Raiders and such coming later. That or maybe they'll just tack some 'generic' Marine stuff on to the various chapters codex/supplement releases?

 

 

Yeah. The divergeant chapters; or if Grey Knights get updated (but stay a small range), maybe a new Rhino/Raider could come out alongside them.

 

(Or even SoB/CSMs/Cult Legions? Lots of options for a Rhino/Raider release slot...)

 

Edited September 14 by LSM

[Lord Marshal]

And some datasheet previews.

 

 

Quote

That’s just a little taste of how some of the datasheets have changed in the new Codex. Come back tomorrow as we start looking at rules updates for less Codex-compliant Chapters, starting with the Blood Angels and Dark Angels.

 

Edited September 14 by Lord Marshal

[Mr. Oddity]

I am very perplexed at them presumably re-doing the mold for HB Eradicators without modifications to the models and then, y'know, not making it a multi-loadout box with the existing Eradicators. If they were going to go through all of that effort to remake a kit, why would you not do it in the way that reduces your SKU count and simplifies your logistics a bit? It would also give you a second set of poses to make repeat units look different. It's definitely an odd choice.

 

As for the rest of the releases, pretty much exactly as expected without anything really popping out IMO. I'll pick up the codex and possibly the new UM character for conversion fodder down the line.

[Mogger351]

So some of the weapons that haven't had their steroid injections kinda stand out like a sore thumb now though. The assault cannon for example seems really limp, so do krak missiles. I anticipated this feeling for other armies, I didn't anticipate seeing it inside of the marine book. It just looks and feels odd.

[irlLordy]

I thought for sure the Terminator Sgt power weapon would be going up to D2. Guess they don't get master-crafted ones.

[Mr. Oddity]

Darn it Lord Marshal, you just had to post as I was typing my first response didn't you?

 

I'm liking the look of the new Librarian abilities and will definitely be keeping a spot in my list open for him (probably with Sternguard). The combi-weapon profiles for that unit feel pretty solid honestly, but I'm not sure if Heavy Bolters staying S5 clicks in my mind. Will need to think on it more. Them being rapid fire with sustained is a nice improvement though.

 

Terminators got some much needed improvements. Storm Bolters actually feel solid now compared to their old iteration and chain fists look MEAN into lists that favor heavier units. Being able to teleport in and get an AP bonus also feels pretty spicy. I think these guys will see a decent bit of play now as an all-rounder response unit!

 

No real thoughts on Guilliman since I'm not an Ultramarines player, will leave that discussion to the frater who run him.

Edited September 14 by Mr. Oddity

[Indy Techwisp]

Y'know looking at these stats makes me wonder if they're gonna do more than just update the basic statline for the marine factions getting the emergency parity update.

 

It sure would be nice if TSons got the new Psychic mechanic now instead of waiting until the next edition has already had it's starter set boxart leaked from the print company...

 

On the topic of what was shown tho, the Libby looks nice and it's nice that they also mentioned what powers the other 2 Libbys have, the Terminators look more threatening (tho tbh I can't spot what actually changed with the Assault Cannon), the Sternguard are about what people were expecting I think and I don't play Ultramarines so Blueberry Supreme isn't something I have any real comments on.

 

Also on the topic of the releases going to preorder I'm annoyed that the Jump Chappy isn't available Solo.

Edited September 14 by Indy Techwisp

[Northern Walker]

Stats for weapons look odd, I have no idea what GW are up to tbh.

[Dr. Clock]

6 minutes ago, Mogger351 said:

The assault cannon for example seems really limp, so do krak missiles. I anticipated this feeling for other armies, I didn't anticipate seeing it inside of the marine book. It just looks and feels odd.

I think it's important to note that the increase on T is the big thing they're rebalancing around, specifically in order that marines of all stripes are actually tougher 'in the game', and S ratings don't just go up 1 to counter it. So assault cannon with a proper AP rating is probably fine, and the +1S and minimum 4 damage on krak also makes it alot more interesting.

 

Also important to note that the Sternguard versions are artificer versions. HB elsewhere are going to be weaker, likely losing Heavy and at least 1 shot of rapid fire I'm guessing. 

 

Looking elsewhere, I'm also seeing far less d6 damage and d6 shots/hits. This feels correct, since on the one hand for damage that's much closer to how energy transfer works... if it defeats your personal armour, I can think of no reason an anti-material weapon like a krak missile would do less damage than a heavy bolter shell 1 in 6 times. Add to that the extent to which rolling bad damage dice implies you've already made it through 3 'dice gates', it feels terrible to wind up barely denting the target when you roll a 1. I far prefer this new method of d3+x as it makes the roll feel more like 'how much extra damage do I get?' than 'Did I do any damage?'. Same with flamers... I understand that rolling a 1 is supposed to represent like people getting out of the way, or the guy just landing the blast wrong, but it makes it feel like about half the time a flamer is actively worse than the comparable weapon in the slot. 

 

27 minutes ago, Mr. Oddity said:

I'm not sure if Heavy Bolters staying S5 clicks in my mind

Yeah I didn't notice until I read this... Making the Dmg2 and massive fire rate the whole difference between a HB and an Intercessor bolt rifle is a choice, and I don't hate it in combination with the Heavy Sustained Rapid 2 BS3+... At this point it's giving much more SAW vibes than actual heavy .50 or whatever, and I like that for marines who are supposed to be moving all the time for sure. 

 

Cheers,

 

The Good Doctor. 

[Lathe Biosas]

You know ow you've been playing a single faction for too long when you get angry at the vanilla entry...

 

What? No plasma cannons on the Terminators?  

 

This is... oh... 

 

I forgot that plasma cannon Termies was a Dark Angels Only thing.

[Lord Nord in Gravis Armour]

Nice to see them SLOWLY walking back at least some of the babyfication of the rules they burdened everyone with in 10th.

 

"Combi-weapons" with more than one profile? MADNESS!

 

Psykers with more than one psychic ability? HERESY!

 

Overall, the game is still crap, but at least now they're warming it up before they serve it.

[HeadlessCross]

1 hour ago, Mogger351 said:

So some of the weapons that haven't had their steroid injections kinda stand out like a sore thumb now though. The assault cannon for example seems really limp, so do krak missiles. I anticipated this feeling for other armies, I didn't anticipate seeing it inside of the marine book. It just looks and feels odd.

The Assault Cannon got a big buff by going strait to AP-2. The Cyclone is still the better pick, but at least the Assault Cannon will be better into a couple of targets vs that Frag profile. 

 

The worst offender is actually the Heavy Flamer. That definitely has limited use. 

[Indy Techwisp]

2 minutes ago, HeadlessCross said:

The Assault Cannon got a big buff by going strait to AP-2. The Cyclone is still the better pick, but at least the Assault Cannon will be better into a couple of targets vs that Frag profile. 

 

The worst offender is actually the Heavy Flamer. That definitely has limited use. 

 

I know it's not exactly the same Flamer but throughout 10th I found the Heavy (warp)Flamer was a useful "get off me" tool for if your opponent tried to muscle a 5-man squad off a point with Battleline OC. Worked quite well vs T'au Breachers and Dominions.

[Jukkiz]

1 hour ago, Mr. Oddity said:

I am very perplexed at them presumably re-doing the mold for HB Eradicators without modifications to the models and then, y'know, not making it a multi-loadout box with the existing Eradicators. If they were going to go through all of that effort to remake a kit,

Eradicators kit builds different things. 

A: 2 eradicators with meltarifle and Sergeant with meltarifle
B: 3 regular eradicators with meltarifle, with 3rd having option to replace Meltarifle with Multi-melta

They only really would need to make new backpacks and arms with heavy bolters and that´s it

[Mogger351]

38 minutes ago, Dr. Clock said:

I think it's important to note that the increase on T is the big thing they're rebalancing around, specifically in order that marines of all stripes are actually tougher 'in the game', and S ratings don't just go up 1 to counter it. So assault cannon with a proper AP rating is probably fine, and the +1S and minimum 4 damage on krak also makes it alot more interesting.

 

Also important to note that the Sternguard versions are artificer versions. HB elsewhere are going to be weaker, likely losing Heavy and at least 1 shot of rapid fire I'm guessing. 

 

Looking elsewhere, I'm also seeing far less d6 damage and d6 shots/hits. This feels correct, since on the one hand for damage that's much closer to how energy transfer works... if it defeats your personal armour, I can think of no reason an anti-material weapon like a krak missile would do less damage than a heavy bolter shell 1 in 6 times. Add to that the extent to which rolling bad damage dice implies you've already made it through 3 'dice gates', it feels terrible to wind up barely denting the target when you roll a 1. I far prefer this new method of d3+x as it makes the roll feel more like 'how much extra damage do I get?' than 'Did I do any damage?'. Same with flamers... I understand that rolling a 1 is supposed to represent like people getting out of the way, or the guy just landing the blast wrong, but it makes it feel like about half the time a flamer is actively worse than the comparable weapon in the slot. 

Yes but most of the marine S ratings did go up 1 stripe to distinctly stop them being tougher.

Bolters/chainswords now S for no reason other than to pair into T5, Krak now S10 so it doubles out T5, they even have their special S5 flamers conveniently. All they did was make them tougher compared to everyone else. Strict Marine into marine games are mostly unchanged bar plasma/fists now being 3's instead of 2s and heavy bolters apparently becoming an SMG of some variety.

[Northern Walker]

What I would dearly love is the rationale behind some of these weapon decisions.

 

My suspicion, lamentably, is that they are balanced purely as game pieces (or mostly), with limited regard to the in-universe description of the thing. Personally I'd want things fluffy, and then worked around in points. I suspect there are ammendments on the horizon. Sigh.

[Indy Techwisp]

6 minutes ago, Northern Walker said:

What I would dearly love is the rationale behind some of these weapon decisions.

 

My suspicion, lamentably, is that they are balanced purely as game pieces (or mostly), with limited regard to the in-universe description of the thing. Personally I'd want things fluffy, and then worked around in points. I suspect there are ammendments on the horizon. Sigh.

 

If we were balancing based on Lore descriptions every Bolt weapon instakills anything T4 or less with no save.

[DemonGSides]

11 minutes ago, Northern Walker said:

What I would dearly love is the rationale behind some of these weapon decisions.

 

My suspicion, lamentably, is that they are balanced purely as game pieces (or mostly), with limited regard to the in-universe description of the thing. Personally I'd want things fluffy, and then worked around in points. I suspect there are ammendments on the horizon. Sigh.

 

Nothing to do with the tabletop game is ever FULLY balanced around lore implications.  This is not a new thing, nor is it surprising.

The game has to be compelling to play, and there's plenty of things in universe that show up on the table that would just so heavily skew that fun away from one player that they have to be nerfed on their face.  Space Marines would crush basically every other factions non-elites on the tabletop and things like daemons would be unstoppable juggernauts against many armies.  That's not fun or compelling.

Edited September 14 by DemonGSides