Codex: Space Marines | Multi-Part Intercessor & Vanguard Vet Teaser | Legends Culling

[mel_danes]

28 minutes ago, phandaal said:

If you aren't going *PSHHHHEEW* *CHHHSSSSHHHH* *PCHHHWWW* and turning minis over on their sides to demonstrate how badly they just got wrecked, are you really even playing a game?

Precision sniping knocks 3 wounds off my 4 wound character.
"Tis but a flesh wound" in appropriate voice.

 

[HeadlessCross]

Just saw on IG there's gonna be a battle report on Wednesday for the WH+ people. Couldn't screen grab anything coherent because my reflexes are crap, but I DID see that the Combi Lieutenant has a separate Flamer profile. Can't tell the stats but that's nice to see. 

[Orange Knight]

Gentlemen, please.

 

Let's not get too upset over what the rules and profiles "should be" and accept that a certain level of abstraction has to be applied.

 

These profiles are very exciting, and are generating a lot of discussion already. Let's enjoy ourselves for the time being.

[phandaal]

25 minutes ago, Mazer Rackham said:

Pfft. C'mon, bro, I lift. 

 

 

I always liked that for non-power armored characters, these are crew served or vehicle mounted weapons. Then Space Marines (and Sisters of Battle) are just hefting them like "I AM the vehicle."

[Mogger351]

10 minutes ago, Orange Knight said:

Gentlemen, please.

 

Let's not get too upset over what the rules and profiles "should be" and accept that a certain level of abstraction has to be applied.

 

These profiles are very exciting, and are generating a lot of discussion already. Let's enjoy ourselves for the time being.

I mean, we just danced the dance that the abstraction is wildly inconsistently applied which the problem.

 

Some of us enjoy it notably less when profiles become mathematically driven meaningless numbers. It becomes a "game you play with 40k minis" in a way.

[Orange Knight]

12 minutes ago, Mogger351 said:

I mean, we just danced the dance that the abstraction is wildly inconsistently applied which the problem.

 

Some of us enjoy it notably less when profiles become mathematically driven meaningless numbers. It becomes a "game you play with 40k minis" in a way.

 

Nothing shown is so egregious that I would call it "meaningless numbers"

 

 

[RWJP]

I'm very keen to see how the points are going to look for Marines going forward based on these changes... I can't say I would be surprised if Guilliman hit 400 points with those stats.

[Zebukkuk]

It may be time to dust off my Sternguard. That much flexibility in one unit is something Primaris Space Marines have never had before.

 

In a weird way it helps with the adaptibility we lost when the Tactical squad and Devastator squad went to Legends.

[Dark Legionnare]

1 hour ago, phandaal said:

 

Agree 100%. It still is for many people. It's actually nice to see more people bringing this up even here where it is not the dominant topic.

 

Some crazy people (me, and sometimes my opponents ) even act out particularly wild scenarios as they happen on the table, complete with sound effects.

 

If you aren't going *PSHHHHEEW* *CHHHSSSSHHHH* *PCHHHWWW* and turning minis over on their sides to demonstrate how badly they just got wrecked, are you really even playing a game?

Stripped the last 3 wounds off a baneblade with a venom doing a tank shock on Friday night.  Rolled a 1, which killed my venom who had 1 wound left.

Baneblade proceeded to explode and kill a nearby leman russ on 6 wounds and a chimera with 5.

We both laughed manically and I pulled up the clip from Return of the Jedi with the A-wing ramming the SSD bridge.

Kept saying "Too late!" and miming diving off to the side every time I tank shocked with raiders constantly, the rest of the night.

Edited yesterday at 07:20 PM by Dark Legionnare

[Orange Knight]

The new Sternguard are very interesting. 

 

They are effective against many profiles, but they don't seem overwhelming against any of them.

 

If the unit is well costed they could be a very good unit to fill a space in an army as a generalist option, but they might end up too costly. We'll see...

[Karhedron]

45 minutes ago, Orange Knight said:

If the unit is well costed they could be a very good unit to fill a space in an army as a generalist option, but they might end up too costly. We'll see...

 

This is my concern, GW historically overprices generalists on the assumption that they can always use their optimum abilities. In most battles your opponent has too much say in events to let your elites play without trying to spoil their fun.

[HeadlessCross]

2 hours ago, Zebukkuk said:

It may be time to dust off my Sternguard. That much flexibility in one unit is something Primaris Space Marines have never had before.

 

In a weird way it helps with the adaptibility we lost when the Tactical squad and Devastator squad went to Legends.

Tactical Squads were never adaptable vs the rest of any codex they were in. 

[Orange Knight]

7 minutes ago, Karhedron said:

 

This is my concern, GW historically overprices generalists on the assumption that they can always use their optimum abilities. In most battles your opponent has too much say in events to let your elites play without trying to spoil their fun.

 

Exactly this.

 

If anyone expects this unit to run around for 3 turns, getting shots off at infantry turn 1, some elites on turn 2, and then finishing off a vehicle on turn 3 - that's really not how things will play out.

Their durability is the same as Standard Intercessors. An opponent isn't going to let them target key units at optimum ranges more than once.

[Evil Eye]

15 minutes ago, HeadlessCross said:

Tactical Squads were never adaptable vs the rest of any codex they were in. 

I know "old bad new good" is kind of your thing but you don't have to straight-up lie.

[Orange Knight]

I was just looking at Ghazkhull's datasheet. He's costed at 300 and similar to Guilliman, although worse in some key areas. Based on Ghaz, I would expect Guilliman in the 340-380 point range?

 

We've also have a lot of discussion about the Heavy Bolter. At least one variant is Str6...

 

Edit: better pic 

 

 

The Company Heroes look absolutely solid in general. All members now have MC weapons as well, which is an upgrade. 

 

We can also see that Intercessors keep access to the Thunder Hammer, and it would appear that the weapon now has damage 3? 

 

Edited yesterday at 09:45 PM by Orange Knight

[Orange Knight]

2 more blurry pics...

 

 

The Reiver Lt has a damage 2 weapon. Other abilities are too blurry for my old, tired eyes lol

 

 

Terminator Librarian gives the unit +2 Strength in melee. That's very good.

Can also increase range of shooting attacks from what I can make out.

 

Phobos Librarian grants ignore cover to the unit's weapons, or makes the unit harder to hit with a -1 to hit protection. 

 

Edit: sorry that I keep editing my posts. I'm currently relegated to using a mobile phone and it's causing me issues...

 

Edited yesterday at 09:59 PM by Orange Knight

[Karhedron]

52 minutes ago, Orange Knight said:

The Company Heroes look absolutely solid in general. All members now have MC weapons as well, which is an upgrade. 

 

We can also see that Intercessors keep access to the Thunder Hammer, and it would appear that the weapon now has damage 3? 

 

Company heroes do seem to have had a glow-up and thank goodness that the assorted Bolter profiles have been harmonised. That will make rolling their shooting a lot easier. 

 

A 3D Hammer is great news and makes my new Smash Captain a very happy camper! 

 

[Orange Knight]

Yeah Damage 3 on the Hammers is massive. 

Now I'm hoping they allow regular Captains to take them...

[LittlePlasticHomies]

1 hour ago, Evil Eye said:

I know "old bad new good" is kind of your thing but you don't have to straight-up lie.

A lot of personal shots taking place at this point in the thread.

[DemonGSides]

1 hour ago, Orange Knight said:

Yeah Damage 3 on the Hammers is massive. 

Now I'm hoping they allow regular Captains to take them...

 

Can't believe there isn't a single captain with one out of the many we have had.  Kinda crazy.  Stupid enough that it isn't just an option, but that we also haven't had one to qualify to get him to have one is something.

 

Same kinda stupid that we can't have a DC Cap w/ JP with a thunder hammer too.  That's the real travesty of current rules, compared to "Should this bolter have one more strength or not?".

Edited 23 hours ago by DemonGSides

[HeadlessCross]

2 hours ago, Evil Eye said:

I know "old bad new good" is kind of your thing but you don't have to straight-up lie.

How is:

1. 1 special and 1 heavy in a 10 man

2. Low shot and low AP basic guns

3. Low number of melee attacks

ever been flexible? "I can choose those few weapons!" is not the flex you think it is. Devastators are flexible, Sternguard were (and seems going back to) flexible. Command Squads used to be flexible. Tactical Squads were never flexible, and it's why they've been garbage for YEARS. 

[phandaal]

2 hours ago, Karhedron said:

A 3D Hammer is great news and makes my new Smash Captain a very happy camper! 

 

 

I have no opinion on the new rules. Just wanted to say again that I'm blown away every time you casually post yet another awesome, fully painted mini from your collection. Just how many do you have anyway?  

[HeadlessCross]

5 hours ago, Karhedron said:

 

Company heroes do seem to have had a glow-up and thank goodness that the assorted Bolter profiles have been harmonised. That will make rolling their shooting a lot easier. 

I prefer that for rolling sake, but it also gives less reason to not throw wounds on the dude with nothing but the rifle. 

[Rhavien]

I don't know if I like the new psychic mechanic. One out of six times your unit gets battleshocked is a huge gamble and can cost you the game. I'm fine with the chance of loosing some wounds through hazardous, but at least the rest of the unit can still score und use strats. If I go by my luck with overheated plasma in the past my units will be permanently battleshocked . 

Beside that I really like the new terminator datasheet. But as others have said the flamer seems to be really weak compared to the other options. If the cyclone would not come with a storm bolter on top it wouldn't be the auto take it is right now. Didn't you loose the fist back in 2nd because you have to swap it for the targeter?

 

[Mogger351]

7 hours ago, LittlePlasticHomies said:

A lot of personal shots taking place at this point in the thread.

I will admit I got a bit frustrated and it got the better of me. This is kind of like the rules equivalent of the primaris scenario for me.

 

There are now 3 camps of people on this I think:

- Those who are happy with the changes or just seemingly don't care what happens

- Those who would never have liked it because they were out off by GW after 7th

- Those who were ok with the trajectory until this point where they're making changes for what feels like game/marketing only reasons

 

The issue is all 3 categories still care about the setting and game. This has led me to have more sympathy for the middle group having come from the first one. It's incredibly frustrating when you feel the thing you care about is being devalued or moving away from what you enjoy. It gets under your skin when people just dismiss it.

 

I am wondering what the break point for some people is though. I feel there's a lot of people who would have just shrugged and carried on if marines were t6 4w for example.