Custodes Rumours

[Orange Knight]

1 hour ago, Mogger351 said:

Look across the entire games range, most armies core units pack in s4/5 weapons and are fielded in larger numbers than a marine is.

 

Why are you so shaken by the 2nd codex of a new edition? We're getting Custodes in 2 weeks, probably another codex a few weeks after that. 6 months from now this edition will look totally different.

 

And keep in mind that this topic is all about Custodes - a faction which has received a far bigger boost than Marines. Not only do Custodes infantry have a toughness and strength increase, but the wound characters of their units has almost doubled.

 

Sit back, paint some models, enjoy some games. We should reflect on this a year from now when the edition and meta have both been established. 

 

I'm hotly anticipating these new releases because playing armies with rules that more closely reflect the lore is what I'm all about. GW have shown that they can create some sort of balance given enough updates, but I'm personally more invested in casual gaming at this time.

 

Edited Monday at 07:14 PM by Orange Knight

[Mogger351]

32 minutes ago, DemonGSides said:

 

I don't think that's true, or really all that relevant.

In the world you've devised in your head, these marine changes happen and NO ONE changes their army comps to combat them.  I just don't see that happening, not that I think armies will need to do THAT much adapting.  As has been broken down plenty of times in the many threads that aren't a Custodes thread (And therefore nothing to do with the Marine changes, but here you are, arguing it all over again), the changes effect a narrow band of breakpoints and can be adapted to.

 

SO INSTEAD of clogging up ANOTHER thread (One that doesn't even have Space Marines in the title, for shame), maybe just move on from this?  Especially if we're just going to say made up statistics.

 

 

It is all completely relevant and true, it's just inconvenient because you don't like it.

 

You raised the comparison to Marines first, so maybe calm down that high horse you're trying to get on.

 

A unit of guardians can maybe swap out their defense platform weapon to accommodate custodes, not that they need to as the breakpoints haven't changed. However a scatter laser, a sunburst missile, are all different into marines now. The 10 shuriken catapults are all worse into marines and cannot be swapped or changed. You can "adapt" and simply not take the unit if that's what we're considering good design here, units devalued into being abandoned due to core metrics moving. Again, this isn't as relevant into custodes as they go from wounding on 5s to wounding on 5s and 6's on terminators.

 

This will continue to be a relevant discussion as other books roll around because to take kroot as an example who have S4 weapons and no options, they are simply worth less now into the modal stat profile of the game. Again, they don't care about custodian guard, but they do about the marine.

 

A break point moving that imapcts most units in the game is a big impact, like it or not.

 

For fun as well here's units in the tau book (which is noted is apparently unfun) who are not impacted by the move to t5 in any way:
 

Spoiler

Kroot Hounds

 

Long list right?

 

27 minutes ago, Orange Knight said:

 

Why are you so shaken by the 2nd codex of a new edition? We're getting Custodes in 2 weeks, probably another codex a few weeks after that. 6 months from now this edition will look totally different.

 

And keep in mind that this topic is all about Custodes - a faction which has received a far bigger boost than Marines. Not only do Custodes infantry have a toughness and strength increase, but the wound characters of their units has almost doubled.

 

Sit back, paint some models, enjoy some games. We should reflect on this a year from now when the edition and meta have both been established. 

 

I'm hotly anticipating these new releases because playing armies with rules that more closely reflect the lore is what I'm all about. GW have shown that they can create some sort of balance given enough updates, but I'm personally more invested in casual gaming at this time.

 

 

Unless they renege on their pledge not to increase weapon profiles across the game, no it won't look that different. Custodes have received a smaller boost in any notable way, as the preferred weapons to handle them have not changed, nor the tactics on principle. Their units being the same number of wounds in 3 bases instead of 5 is actually putting them back where they start largely. Likewise most of what they hurt they already hurt on 2's/3's, it's not moved the needle much.

I am doing more building and painting now than I have in recent memory in honest, but far less playing, because it simply isn't appealing at the minute.

 

I know this is a me problem, I know that the vast majority are happy with a lot of this stuff. I have grown into the grognard category that used to annoy me. I am aware of this, it is incredibly frustrating seeing something you love being watered down into a generic mediocre e-sport-lite game though.

Worth noting this will be it until I imagine Jan/feb though at the earliest. There's a lot of other stuff to release before their Christmas soft cut-off.

 

I hope you enjoy it wholeheartedly.

 

[Blindhamster]

Seriously mogger. The whole point is that marines died too quickly relative to their lore. They have tried to make factions that shouldn’t kill them so quickly well.. do that. 
 

in theory with point adjustments and the loss of widespread rerolls, they’re probably a little less lethal though (similar actually to the assessment of Custodes).

 

if we see all the marines winning all the tournaments consistently in 6 months time, you may have been right. Till then I think it’s a bit of a dead horse you’re beating at this point 

[Mogger351]

24 minutes ago, Blindhamster said:

Seriously mogger. The whole point is that marines died too quickly relative to their lore. They have tried to make factions that shouldn’t kill them so quickly well.. do that. 
 

in theory with point adjustments and the loss of widespread rerolls, they’re probably a little less lethal though (similar actually to the assessment of Custodes).

 

if we see all the marines winning all the tournaments consistently in 6 months time, you may have been right. Till then I think it’s a bit of a dead horse you’re beating at this point 

I mean I get it, you're mostly marine players it's fine. There's people in here saying custodes and knights are unfun to play into. I'm simply pointing out the same is true for other forces into marines now. 

 

I don't care if they win loads of stuff, it's not about being op strictly, it's about the fact everything else feels worse to play.

 

But I am beating a dead horse because the common opinion is it's good and I'd wager largely you're all playing power armour.

[Orange Knight]

8 minutes ago, Mogger351 said:

I mean I get it, you're mostly marine players it's fine. There's people in here saying custodes and knights are unfun to play into. I'm simply pointing out the same is true for other forces into marines now. 

 

I don't care if they win loads of stuff, it's not about being op strictly, it's about the fact everything else feels worse to play.

 

But I am beating a dead horse because the common opinion is it's good and I'd wager largely you're all playing power armour.

 

This is predominantly a Marine focused forum so I would imagine that most people have an Astartes army.

If it makes you feel any better, most of my hobby funds have been going on AdMech over the last year. I've been showing off a few models over at the AdMech forum.

 

I'm not concerned about Marines in the slightest. I know that GW will release a new AdMech codex at some point and it will either be awful or far too powerful, but again - it doesn't worry me.

 

I've been in the hobby for 30 years. A few months of uncertainty about the meta is like the blink of an eye.

[jaxom]

This is the most excited I’ve been to play Marines in a long time. I look forward to seeing what lists I can build with what I have. I look forward to building the Outriders I got in all those starter boxes.

[LittlePlasticHomies]

49 minutes ago, Orange Knight said:

This is predominantly a Marine focused forum so I would imagine that most people have an Astartes army.

I agree and you could probably say the same about most 40k spaces at large. At the end of the day, they’re the most popular army and probably should be the measuring stick that other factions should adjust against.

[HeadlessCross]

2 hours ago, Mogger351 said:

 

This will continue to be a relevant discussion as other books roll around because to take kroot as an example who have S4 weapons and no options, they are simply worth less now into the modal stat profile of the game. Again, they don't care about custodian guard, but they do about the marine.

Kroot weren't good into Marines in 4th to onwards. Nothing has changed there. 

[Kyari]

Really curious to see the statlines of the Sisters of Silence, because I think that'll inform a lot of whether we should expect to see changes for other armies or if the stat bump is just going to make the elite more elite and leave everyone else as is.

Conceptually moving the toughness scale a bit gives them more design space, but if Sisters of Silence remain T3/1W I won't have a ton of hope for them actually utilising that.

[Blindhamster]

I could see sisters being toughness 4 with 2 wounds due to power armour, could also see them being toughness 3 and 2 wounds or toughness 4 and 1 wound though 

[Lathe Biosas]

I'm just interested to see if human bolters increase in s/dmg to match marine bolters.

 

If they do, we might see a change in IG players as they swap every Laspistol they have lfor a Bolt Pistol.

Edited yesterday at 01:13 AM by Lathe Biosas

[ThaneOfTas]

My bet for SoS is that they go T4 but stay 1W personally. What I really hope though is that they get their increased movement back, 7" at a min, with an argument for 8".

[Mogger351]

11 hours ago, HeadlessCross said:

Kroot weren't good into Marines in 4th to onwards. Nothing has changed there. 

Well obviously, now they're even worse again, so I'll adapt and stop bringing them I guess. Conversely the whole thing is pushing me towards getting on with my inquisition stuff and making a little ordo astartes force with some custodes bouncers.

[Blindhamster]

3 hours ago, Mogger351 said:

Well obviously, now they're even worse again, so I'll adapt and stop bringing them I guess. Conversely the whole thing is pushing me towards getting on with my inquisition stuff and making a little ordo astartes force with some custodes bouncers.

it really depends on numbers.
 

if the kroot (or whatever) don’t kill quite so many, but there were fewer in the first place (and therefore also less damage being outputted) you don’t necessarily end up with worse situation. 
 

In practice we haven’t seen it yet, the previewed points may be correct or they may get tweaked, if marines are really as overpowered as you imply, they’ll get more expensive. 

[Mogger351]

17 minutes ago, Blindhamster said:

it really depends on numbers.
 

if the kroot (or whatever) don’t kill quite so many, but there were fewer in the first place (and therefore also less damage being outputted) you don’t necessarily end up with worse situation. 
 

In practice we haven’t seen it yet, the previewed points may be correct or they may get tweaked, if marines are really as overpowered as you imply, they’ll get more expensive. 

You need to stop using the word overpowered. I even explicitly replied earlier that it's possible they're mathematically perfectly balanced (although I doubt it).

 

The point is and remains that people cite custodes (and knights) as unfun because most of your army, unless you build specifically to do otherwise ends up fishing for 5s and 6s whilst your units tend to be deleted with ease in return.

 

Kroot now have to live most of their games fishing for 5s and being removed by the handful. It's the same thing.

 

I also get that you and others want that, which is fine.

[ZeroWolf]

To be fair, given the rumours, we'll see in a few months how GW plan to tackle the other Xenos ranges as Tau being said to potentially drop straight after the Xmas season (so first codex of 2027) with Nids and DE not far behind. 

 

...If everything been said turning out to be true if course as GW have seemingly abandoned road maps

[phandaal]

18 hours ago, Mogger351 said:

I have grown into the grognard category that used to annoy me. I am aware of this

 

Spoiler

 

Edited 20 hours ago by phandaal

[Lathe Biosas]

Pre-orders for a bunch of Custodes stuff. (Pulled from Coliseum of Comics):

 

All prices are U.S. dollars...

 

Edited 16 hours ago by Lathe Biosas
Updated Info.

[01RTB01]

1 hour ago, Lathe Biosas said:

Pre-orders for a bunch of Custodes stuff. (Pulled from Coliseum of Comics):

 

 

Which dollars are these please?

[Evil Eye]

1 hour ago, phandaal said:

 

  Hide contents

 

Time makes grognards of us all.

[DemonGSides]

9 minutes ago, 01RTB01 said:

 

Which dollars are these please?

American dollars, I would imagine. Codexes are $40 a pop now that they aren't hardcover. 

[Lathe Biosas]

They are US dollars. I'll go edit that into my post.

[Blindhamster]

5 hours ago, Mogger351 said:

You need to stop using the word overpowered. I even explicitly replied earlier that it's possible they're mathematically perfectly balanced (although I doubt it).

 

The point is and remains that people cite custodes (and knights) as unfun because most of your army, unless you build specifically to do otherwise ends up fishing for 5s and 6s whilst your units tend to be deleted with ease in return.

 

Kroot now have to live most of their games fishing for 5s and being removed by the handful. It's the same thing.

 

I also get that you and others want that, which is fine.

difference is, I don’t care about Custodes. I’d rather the game matched the lore more closely.

 

i saw the custodes rules (guessed exactly what their stats would be in fact) and was pleased for them.

 

To me it’s a good thing, I’ll also enjoy playing my eldar still and look forward to seeing how they change, I’ll also enjoy messing around with my sons Tyranids.

1 hour ago, Evil Eye said:

Time makes grognards of us all.

Only if you allow it to lol. 

[HeadlessCross]

10 hours ago, Mogger351 said:

Well obviously, now they're even worse again, so I'll adapt and stop bringing them I guess. Conversely the whole thing is pushing me towards getting on with my inquisition stuff and making a little ordo astartes force with some custodes bouncers.

You were bringing Kroot to hit Marines terribly?

[Mogger351]

20 minutes ago, HeadlessCross said:

You were bringing Kroot to hit Marines terribly?

17% less terribly to be precise.