Custodes Rumours

[HeadlessCross]

This leak here has the detachments as well. Some interesting stuff. 

[ThaneOfTas]

3 hours ago, librisrouge said:

My fist and bolter terminators don't exist in 40k, apparently. Sad noises. I have six of them.

Wow that is annoyingly restrictive yeah.

 

Also losing the Sentinel Blade on the Shield Captain is also irritating.

 

Neither are awful, its just another example of stupid restrictions and changes that I wish 40k would stop doing.

Edited September 30 by ThaneOfTas

[ThaneOfTas]

On 9/29/2026 at 11:28 AM, ThaneOfTas said:

My bet for SoS is that they go T4 but stay 1W personally. What I really hope though is that they get their increased movement back, 7" at a min, with an argument for 8".

Well at least they got the 7" movement. A bit surprised by the T though.

[BadgersinHills]

14 hours ago, Doghouse said:

Can they still take Land Raiders?

 

They're going to Legends.

[ZeroWolf]

1 hour ago, BadgersinHills said:

 

They're going to Legends.

Given how they're approaching legends now (all in the app) they can still be taken, especially for friendly games. It's only tournaments where legends run afoul.

[DemonGSides]

22 hours ago, Orange Knight said:

 

When everyone in the army can be Str10 or higher, Damage 3/4 or higher, Never missing attacks, Marines will die as easily as Grots.

But yes, I'm being hyperbolic. You don't have to take every statement I make literally.

We haven't mathed out the damage, we haven't seen the points, we have no practice with these new rules.

 

We have mathed out the damage, I just told you what it was.

 

14 hours ago, ThaneOfTas said:

Wow that is annoyingly restrictive yeah.

 

Also losing the Sentinel Blade on the Shield Captain is also irritating.

 

Neither are awful, its just another example of stupid restrictions and changes that I wish 40k would stop doing.

 

I can at least get the idea behind the Sentinel Blade not being available (since the box itself changed), but my captain has one as well and this is annoying. I don't mind pretending it's a non shooting blade, but was it really necessary to get rid of the gun blades in general?? They were so cool. 

[irlLordy]

14 hours ago, ThaneOfTas said:

Also losing the Sentinel Blade on the Shield Captain is also irritating.

 

The shield captain still has sword and board option (the model is even in the combat patrol), the sword is just called a paragon blade now.

[DemonGSides]

25 minutes ago, irlLordy said:

 

The shield captain still has sword and board option (the model is even in the combat patrol), the sword is just called a paragon blade now.

 

It can't shoot anymore which is a relatively big change. The old model can still be played easily enough but it is a change to how the unit previously worked. 

Edited Thursday at 01:42 PM by Brother Tyler
Response to inappropriate post (which has been hidden) removed

[Brother Tyler]

I've hidden several posts and edited another that quoted one of those hidden posts.

 

It's eminently possible to disagree with each other without being disrespectful.

[Orange Knight]

 

1 hour ago, DemonGSides said:

 

We have mathed out the damage, I just told you what it was.

 

 

Show me the math. All permutations and detachment bonuses included. I would like to see just how wrong I am.

Edited Thursday at 01:47 PM by Brother Tyler
Unnecessary comment edited out

[jaxom]

42 minutes ago, Orange Knight said:

 

 

Show me the math. All permutations and detachment bonuses included. I would like to see just how wrong I am.

I don’t mind tackling that after work. Tackling the math that is, I have no idea how it will play out. Are there particular unit interactions you are interested in? I assume “troop” Custodes vs GEQ and MEQ; any others?

[Mogger351]

Interestingly there will be fewer 2+ to wound attacks into marines than there are now as axes attack count is reduced.

[DemonGSides]

8 hours ago, Orange Knight said:

 

 

Show me the math. All permutations and detachment bonuses included. I would like to see just how wrong I am.

 

Sure, using an online calculator you could've done all this and not gotten bent out of shape, but I'm happy to do some homework (Shout out https://tactical-cogitator.com/ for having a really good edittable calculator, since we're dealing with unreleased product most of the calculators are still operating from end of 10th).

 

Custodian Shooting is pretty much all BS2+, S5, AP-1, 2 Dmg; this is true across all the various versions of Axe and Spear of their troops, which is the ubiquitous stuff at this point.  Venatari do throw a slight wrench, but it isn't that big of a difference (Kinetic Destroyers being a Strength higher and having Sustained built in and taking a MUCH worse melee profile than anything else the Custodes have available, a fair trade off).

So each shot made is a 2+; this is essentially a 1/6th chance to fail, meaning you have 16% chance to fail.  So out of a single unit of Custodes (They are almost all locked to 3 or less), each shooting 2 shots (Sentinels actually get 4 shots, funny enough, but half the range, so in terms of engagement, they're just dumping their shots in one turn as opposed to the normal 2 turns you'd get out of a Custodian Spear/Axe), means that out of the 6 shots you're making with a unit, you drop 1.

Okay, easy enough.  5 shots, on average (Which is all we have to go on) make it.  There's some wrenches, but they all involve needing an objective, and that's not always a guarantee (Definitely more likely in 11th due to terrain often being objectives, but we're just talking about pure numbers); The two Sodalities can add Sustained (Spear Sodality) or Lethal (Sentinel), which definitely changes some math, but in 6 shots, it doesn't change much; you get the 1 shot back, which will impact, but it's not that large of a deal.  With the sentinels, you'll lose 1/6th of shots, and 1/6th of shots will skip the To wound Roll, if either unit is on an objective.  I think this muddies the math a lot, but we can take a look at it afterwards.

 

5 shots into T5, coming in at S5, is 4+.  So you lose 2.5 shots due to it being Heads or Tails.  I'll be generous and say you only dropped 2.  That's 3 shots going in, 2 damage a piece; they save on 2/3rds of those, so they lose a single guy to a round of shooting.  Double it if it's a Sentinel Sodality, at their 12" range.

Now I know, the shooting isn't the scary part.  So lets look at the stabby weapons.  I'm not doing the song and dance part again, so here's the raw numbers;

 

Custodian Guard Sodality do 14 average damage in a single round without any modifiers like Sustained; with Sustained they do 16.  An entire unit of the Custodes can usually kill a MEQ squad of 5 in Melee, a trade most people would call "Bad" considering that 5 man squad of MEQ were a lot cheaper than the 3 man Custodes squad.

 

Sentinel Guard Sodality do 11 average damage per attack sequence without any modifiers like Lethals; with Lethals it goes up to 12. An entire unit of the Custodes can usually kill a MEQ squad of 5 in melee, once again, something most people would consider a pretty bad trade.

 

Castellan Axes (Of both Warden and Allarus variety) both actually have mediocre matchups into MEQ; they do a bunch of damage, but end up only killing about 4 models due to how damage is dealt.  These weapons are for opening vehicles, akin to a powerfist more than they are any sort of anti-infantry weapon.

 

In no case can they wipe a 10 man unit without a leader to support them; any given unit could have one, but there will be 4-5 such units total, not all of them will be lead, and they have to also play for objectives.

I'm not sure I see the concern about "MEQ being wiped out like Grots".  Hyperbole, sure, but it's not even similar.  For posterity sake;

 

A gretchin/Grot is Toughness 2, 1 wound, 6+ save.

On average, in melee, the Sentinels (With Lethals, but no Katah) (Which are the preferred Gretchin murderer in melee based on stats) only kill 11 of them in a single round.  A 20 unit of gretchen keeps a Custodes unit in melee, on average, for an entire battle round.  Not half bad for 80 points!

 

 

The concerns about Custodes suddenly being murder machines feel relatively overblown.  If the points are laughably low, for sure something to be concerned about, but everything I'm seeing has me firmly in the "Well, that's not too crazy for Super Elite Warriors", and if anything, I'm still a little "Well they should be doing a little bit better", which they probably are once you start doing things like layering in the Karate stuff; I don't think any of the Detatchment rules are SO impactful that they would massively change any of the above (maybe Martial Mastery from the Guardians detatchment adding in the Sustained/Lethal that you don't have), having glanced at them once, but I'm willing to be convinced that things could be a bit stronger than I'm showing here.  Additionally, I think a lot of the fear is based in how strong Custodes USED to be, because they had more models committing more attacks.  They're going to be similarly tough as they were (Obviously a little tougher due to the increases), but they are going to actually end up doing similar if not less damage than they currently do.

Ultimately the points will make the biggest difference, quite literally as they always do.

Edited Thursday at 09:57 PM by DemonGSides

[Valkyrion]

Wow, I've no dog in this fight, even though I have a custodes army.  but you've all gone to loads of effort to argue a point which will be redundant shortly, either via the next codex or the next balance patch, and I've just decided right now, I don't want to be like that. I don't mean it as a criticism, but all those stats is not the game I want to play. So I'm out. I'm going to play 11th rules with 10th codexes, and talk amongst my friends.  Look at what you're putting yourself through. Look at who you're trying to convince. Is it really worth it?  

[jaxom]

2 minutes ago, Valkyrion said:

Is it really worth it?  

Personally, I like math (except calculus) spreadsheets, and charts; so to a degree yes. I'm not super familiar with Custodes to know the ins-and-outs, so I stuck with the basic "troop" dataslates for the first comparison. Feels like a bit of a waste after @DemonGSides did all that work, but hey, charts!

 

 

I couldn't figure out a good way to model the change in objective attacks. The new rule works both while on an objective and attacking targets on an objective. I figure it helps when you can melee but got manuevered so you're not on it. In the vast majority of comparison, I feel comfortable that old and new melee are in the same scenario. Shooting is a different matter, so if one wants to cross-compare, then I think that's perfectly valid.

 

 

 

If anyone has a specific scenario they'd like me to model, just let me know! Like I said, I'm not super familiar with Custodes so just tell me the unit(s), scenario, and modifier(s) to compare and I can do that.

 

 

[phandaal]

27 minutes ago, Valkyrion said:

So I'm out. I'm going to play 11th rules with 10th codexes, and talk amongst my friends.

 

Spoiler

 

[HeadlessCross]

1 hour ago, Valkyrion said:

Look at what you're putting yourself through.

The math isn't hard, it's all based on a D6, and posters here clearly proved the power level is not much higher than it already was. As always, everything is dependent on points. 

[DemonGSides]

2 hours ago, Valkyrion said:

Wow, I've no dog in this fight, even though I have a custodes army.  but you've all gone to loads of effort to argue a point which will be redundant shortly, either via the next codex or the next balance patch, and I've just decided right now, I don't want to be like that. I don't mean it as a criticism, but all those stats is not the game I want to play. So I'm out. I'm going to play 11th rules with 10th codexes, and talk amongst my friends.  Look at what you're putting yourself through. Look at who you're trying to convince. Is it really worth it?  

 

Is it worth it?  It took like 5 minutes.

Is it worth arguing with Orange Knight?  Probably not, there we can agree.

 

I'm not sure what point is redundant; these items are based off of the new codex worth of stuff that isn't going to go anywhere in the next 3 years, but might have some small superficial changes like points costs and detatchment combo's, which is why I mostly didn't bother there.

Sorry this part sounded more combative than I wanted; obviously play how you want, but I don't think there's anything here that's outside of normal game consideration.  I'm not a tournament player, I play maybe a game or two a month, and consider myself a bigger fan of the lore and entertainment side of 40k than the game.  I do enjoy theorizing about the game if for no other reason than that I don't get to play as much.  People like different things, and I get that.  What do you find objectionable about the new Custodes stuff?

Edited Friday at 01:16 AM by DemonGSides

[MagicHat]

9 hours ago, DemonGSides said:

 

Custodian Shooting is pretty much all BS2+, S5, AP-1, 2 Dmg; this is true across all the various versions of Axe and Spear of their troops, which is the ubiquitous stuff at this point.  Venatari do throw a slight wrench, but it isn't that big of a difference (Kinetic Destroyers being a Strength higher and having Sustained built in and taking a MUCH worse melee profile than anything else the Custodes have available, a fair trade off).

So each shot made is a 2+; this is essentially a 1/6th chance to fail, meaning you have 16% chance to fail.  So out of a single unit of Custodes (They are almost all locked to 3 or less), each shooting 2 shots (Sentinels actually get 4 shots, funny enough, but half the range, so in terms of engagement, they're just dumping their shots in one turn as opposed to the normal 2 turns you'd get out of a Custodian Spear/Axe), means that out of the 6 shots you're making with a unit, you drop 1.

All the spears have rapid fire 2, so both basic squads have 4 shots at 12"

[Valkyrion]

20 hours ago, DemonGSides said:

 

Is it worth it?  It took like 5 minutes.

Is it worth arguing with Orange Knight?  Probably not, there we can agree.

 

I'm not sure what point is redundant; these items are based off of the new codex worth of stuff that isn't going to go anywhere in the next 3 years, but might have some small superficial changes like points costs and detatchment combo's, which is why I mostly didn't bother there.

Sorry this part sounded more combative than I wanted; obviously play how you want, but I don't think there's anything here that's outside of normal game consideration.  I'm not a tournament player, I play maybe a game or two a month, and consider myself a bigger fan of the lore and entertainment side of 40k than the game.  I do enjoy theorizing about the game if for no other reason than that I don't get to play as much.  People like different things, and I get that.  What do you find objectionable about the new Custodes stuff?

 

 

Firstly, don't apologise to me for honest opinions, combative or otherwise. We're all engaged deeply here, otherwise we wouldn't post anything! 

My criticism wasn't so much about the time spent, more about the head space being given to it, but I realise that something that takes me all day to figure out has already been worked out long before I even join in!

 

Secondly, I don't find anything objectionable about the new Custodes, only that everything current will now lag behind 3 codexes, then 4, then 5 and so on.

I just boil it down to my own primary misgiving about this game, which is the 3 year cycle - there is never a steady period of balance where every Codex is equal.

The last game I played was Chaos Knights vs Custodes using 11th rules and 10th codexs, Chaos Knights won, but they wouldn't win again for 2 years once the new custodes dex drops, then the Chaos Knights dex, then we're into a new edition. 

 

I just find the whole thing so frustrating. 

 

 

[HeadlessCross]

5 hours ago, Valkyrion said:

the 3 year cycle

That's a whole separate issue vs the actual power level of the codices

[Lathe Biosas]

Quick question... with the reduction in squad sizes, will it still be worth it to take Leaders, or have we seen the end of Inquisitor Draxus in Custodes lists?

[Mogger351]

1 hour ago, Lathe Biosas said:

Quick question... with the reduction in squad sizes, will it still be worth it to take Leaders, or have we seen the end of Inquisitor Draxus in Custodes lists?

I don't see why leaders are any less worth it?

[Lathe Biosas]

45 minutes ago, Mogger351 said:

I don't see why leaders are any less worth it?

 

Instead of 5 Custodians with Spears, you are now maxed out at 3. Does the loss of those 2 extra bodies mean that Leaders that were typically seen in every list, like Inquisitor Draxus, will be less effective and not worth taking?

[Mogger351]

2 hours ago, Lathe Biosas said:

 

Instead of 5 Custodians with Spears, you are now maxed out at 3. Does the loss of those 2 extra bodies mean that Leaders that were typically seen in every list, like Inquisitor Draxus, will be less effective and not worth taking?

 But the efficiency of the unit isn't tied to the raw headcount, they've got on average about the same output from a unit of 3 as they had from a unit of 5 before. Anything that's additive/multiplicative will still be even with fewer models.

 

Edit: to add to that the custodes characters are nigh on like dreadnoughts now in their own right, it seems prudent to give them a unit to sit in for extra wounds.

Edited Saturday at 09:31 AM by Mogger351