Codex Night Lords

[Kaldoth]

:ot: im sure it was because of something he said. alas... he was a wealth of information...anyway get back on topic.

[Kazak]

I do and don't agree with the "moderate gifts on the Lord" policy. At up to a thousand or maybe even 1500 I will be careful. Anything beyond that and I go insane and turn him into the most devastating melee monster I can. Flight lord running with 6 tooled up raptors is dangerous. Especially since he is a sorceror prince who uses the wind of chaos and assault with 6 attacks, getting to reroll one miss and then hitting with s8, no armour. watch marine chars die! Nothing is more fun to kill than a command and/or termie squad in one turn and then watch your opponent cry. The terror in his eyes as the squad moves into position to anhilate the enemy squad is amazing and is quite indicitive of the NL.

 

Think less about the religious connotations of the MoCU and more of its ingame effects in relation to the NL fluff. This may sound strange but think of this. The NL are a bunch of fearless psychotics and with the MoCU they are probably never going to run. Sustaining their attack until their overkill style of warfare has won them the day. The same goes for the bitter, unrelenting IW.

 

It is also my opinion that every NL squad MUST have either Infiltrte and/or Stealth Adept. Both are fluffy for them. And if Iniltrate is too expensive, take Stealth adept to stay fluffy, effective, and save points.

 

I remain unconvinced of the usefullness of Bikes. Turbo boosting is nice, but they can be easily assaulted usualy because of their close proximity to the enemy. Power weapons anhilate them.

 

Oh, and people believe this whole "NL use stealth so no tanks" thing. That's bull. In fact, the tank they are most likely to take is the Defiler. NL use an artillery style of warfare to cover their approach that terrorizes the enemy. Anything that can make an enemy check his Ld at a penalty (i.e. Ord Barrage, DVisage) is again fluffy for the NL.

 

Also, being unfaithful doesn't mean that they haven't attracted the attention of any Chaos Daemons. They may have been gifted by a lesser God who is enticing them to follow him. The Gods do that sort of stuff all the time. How do you think they brought the primarchs into their fold in the first place? And, since the NL's LOVE causing terror so much, don't you think that they would accept the gifts of gods which can turn them into mighty, terrifying Daemon Princes, who can frighten even the loyalist dogs? Also, Raptors are their signature unit, yet are daemonically warped. So, how could they be such a stable geneseed they never mutate? Again, bull. They may not be devoted, but that desn't mean they wouldn't play the gods for their own benefit. Sort of like Abbadon never commiting to anyone god. In fact, the NL's are some of the ones I would expect to have play the gods more than anyone else! The most pragmatic legions (NL, IW) are going to play the gods without ever devoting themselves.

[Pacific81]

Also, being unfaithful doesn't mean that they haven't attracted the attention of any Chaos Daemons. They may have been gifted by a lesser God who is enticing them to follow him. The Gods do that sort of stuff all the time. How do you think they brought the primarchs into their fold in the first place? And, since the NL's LOVE causing terror so much, don't you think that they would accept the gifts of gods which can turn them into mighty, terrifying Daemon Princes, who can frighten even the loyalist dogs? Also, Raptors are their signature unit, yet are daemonically warped. So, how could they be such a stable geneseed they never mutate? Again, bull. They may not be devoted, but that desn't mean they wouldn't play the gods for their own benefit. Sort of like Abbadon never commiting to anyone god. In fact, the NL's are some of the ones I would expect to have play the gods more than anyone else!

 

I agree with what you wrote up to this point. However, going on what is said in the IA Night Lords, they were the only legion to have turned away from the Emperor before the Horus Heresy took place. This decision revolved around Night Haunters scorn of the Emperor and the other primarch's, who he viewed as weak, NOT because they were tempted by chaos. They sided with Horus, as he seemed stronger than the loyalists and were comparable to Night Haunters view of the Imperium.

As it says in the IA, "they pledged no alleigance to any particular chaos power, looking upon such devotion with scorn". This is why the NL have a relatively uncorrupted gene-seed. This is reflected in the fact that NL cannot have daemons in their armies (other than furies which they capture). Possessed chaos marines can be expained by the marines simply coming into contact with them on worlds in the eye of terror - as you mentioned, they will obviously take the route that lets them commit the most terror.

 

As for the raptors, they belong to the raptor cult - at no point does it mention that they are a signature unit of the NL. Yes it could be said that they excel at the same aspects of war as the NL, but they are not attached to any particular legion. Also, worship of the chaos powers is not required for mutation. Simply being in close proximity to the eye of terror is sufficient - in one sense the physical aspects of the raptors have started to reflect their own psyche.

 

As for the defiler, I would say that it would have the least chance of all chaos legions of being featured in their army. The codex states that chaos has given a hand in its construction. As NL are the least involved of the legions when it comes to matters of worship or contact with chaos, then it would also be reasonable to assume that in the same way their gene-seed is more or less intact, so to are their orginal imperial war machines (plus the usual spikes/shrunken heads etc.)

 

 

--------------------

 

"and there will be no more empires or kingdoms, no more caliphs, sultans, emirs, khans or zamindars, no more kings or queens or princes, no more qadis or mullas or ulema, no more slavery and no more usury, no more property and no more taxes, no more rich and no more poor, no killing or maiming or torture or execution, no more jailers and no more prisoners, no more generals, soldiers, armies or navies, no more patriarchy, no more clans, no more caste, no more hunger, no more suffering than what life brings us for being born and having to die, and then for the first time we will see what kind of creatures we really are."

[Kazak]

I still think that the Lord might take any chance he can to be terrifying but he probably kind of needs Visage in addition to anything else just to stay fluffy.

 

And remember that pretty much any Daemonic Gift can be explained through a cybernetic enhancements (such as the IW are known for doing). So you can always take that route. Maybe for Daemon Armour representing Daemonic hides attached to his armour, more terror and not necessarily a Gift from the Gods.

 

For teh Defiler itself, for artillery reasons, is fluff. The Daemonic pilot part might not be. So, you do a conversion. Make some terrifying creation that operates like a Defiler on the field but is something reminiscent of the homeworld, Nostramo or something along those lines. Maybe they enslaved a Fury or some other daemon from their new world and have it pilot the creation (thus the Daemonic Possession it autmatically has) but it is not a Defiler per se, because they will not let chaos near them.

 

By the way, we all knwo fo the supposed assassination of Curze. Some say he repented at the end, etc. We never actually saw his death. Anyone think he faked his own death to return to his ghostly existence such as when he first was given the name "Night Haunter"? To begin anew a reign of Terror upon the unjust and the corrupt (the Imperium)? I'm sure this has been brought up before, but I haven't heard it mentioned in my time.

[Brother Nihm]

By the way, we all knwo fo the supposed assassination of Curze. Some say he repented at the end, etc. We never actually saw his death. Anyone think he faked his own death to return to his ghostly existence such as when he first was given the name "Night Haunter"? To begin anew a reign of Terror upon the unjust and the corrupt (the Imperium)? I'm sure this has been brought up before, but I haven't heard it mentioned in my time.

 

Everything concerning Konrad's demise is detailed in the BL publication Lord of the Night. I won't spoil anything but it is awesome. (Even more so for NL players of course! :P )

[Kazak]

Nihm, I am actually trying to get that through my public library system right now, as well as Beggars in Spain (just a scifi book) and Storm of Iron.

 

I am currently IW and I am heavily considering the NL's. Love their fluff.

 

I think that all 9 legions need a special char besides just 5. What about the NL, IW, AL, and WB? Anyone agree?

 

Oh, and we won't talk about Fabius Bile. Such a waste of 114 pts compared to a pumped up prince...but still cool.

[Annubis]

Since were on the topic of Modling I wanted to see what you guys had thought of some of my army that I've painted.

Here is the troops.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v697/Ren...rp/P2150011.jpg

 

 

Here is one of my Aspiring Champions, though I haven't gotten a chance to outline the wings on his head with blue..

 

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v697/Ren...rp/P2150016.jpg

 

Here is some of the unit with the Asp. Champ.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v697/Ren...rp/P2150023.jpg

 

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v697/Ren...rp/P2150023.jpg

 

 

And here is the good 'ole raptors

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v697/Ren...rp/P2150036.jpg

 

Though some of these are not finish because i still have to go over the lightning details again and do the bases I wanted to know what you guys think and what your comments are.

[lotharthehuscarl]

Since were on the topic of Modling I wanted to see what you guys had thought of some of my army that I've painted.

 

Not really. Annubis, this is a thread that is supposed to discuss the tactics and fluff of the NL, not a critique of somebody's army's paintjob. Start a new thread for this. This thread shold be an easily accessable source of NL tactics for new players, which your post clutters.

 

*Back on topic*

 

Does anyone ever use Sorcerers in their NL armies? I'm thinking that a Sorcerer with Mass Mutation and might be especially useful to pump up regular Chaos Marine units.

 

Does anyone use Terminators? The fact that they can't take Stealth Adepts or Infiltrate, the NL's staple Vet Skils, doesn't necessarily make them unfluffy. NLs need some mobile firepower to support their Raptors and/or Bikes and the Terminators fit that role nicely. I've found that a unit of 6 with two reaper autocannons and a couple chainfists can do quite a bit of damage and can take down a wide range of targets.

 

Does anyone ever give their HQ a bike and put him in a Biker squad? My friend does this in his EC army and does some serious damage.

[Annubis]

Sorry bout the post I will move it and put it in a new topic. but answering to your question In my Nl army I use a biker for MY Lord and put him in a squad I find it works really welll and has taken out many a enemy on my behalf. Along with your statement about the Teminators yes it is true that the fire power is always helpful but I would proll only se it in a fight more than 2000 pts. I like the use of fast attk for my army but I don't base my army solely on it. I do have heavy support as well as troops and elites all of which help each other out. Like a havoc squad is considerably cheeper but I could see someone usiing terminators as a form of support.

[Kaldoth]

Does anyone ever use Sorcerers in their NL armies? I'm thinking that a Sorcerer with Mass Mutation and might be especially useful to pump up regular Chaos Marine units.

 

Does anyone use Terminators? The fact that they can't take Stealth Adepts or Infiltrate, the NL's staple Vet Skils, doesn't necessarily make them unfluffy. NLs need some mobile firepower to support their Raptors and/or Bikes and the Terminators fit that role nicely. I've found that a unit of 6 with two reaper autocannons and a couple chainfists can do quite a bit of damage and can take down a wide range of targets.

 

Does anyone ever give their HQ a bike and put him in a Biker squad? My friend does this in his EC army and does some serious damage.

 

 

 

 

If im playing a game below 1500 points, I tend not to use terminators in my army. I find that they are too expensive and only effective in squads of 5 or more. The points will really add up. If Im playing against a swarm army I will use them. Getting surrounded by IG or 'nids isnt fun. Watching all of those 'nids explode from reaper autocannon fire is too good to pass up anyway ;) Sorcerers are an excellent edition to a NL army. Especially with mass mutation. That power can come in handy while in CC. I never tried a bike lord because...well... I dont know why come to think of it...but anyway I only find that bikes in general are only effective in squads of 5 or more. And that can get VERY expensive.

 

MoCU? Its a must! I cant stand when people say "Dont use MoCU! Its unfluffy!" People forget that the NLs are still largely chaos marines. Yeah I know the whole "But in the fluff it says..." story. Ive read the codex a million times. It says they dont worship the chaos powers as gods. That doesnt mean they dont worship them though! They could view the gods as something else. Just because they dont see the powers as gods like other legions do doesnt mean that they still dont serve the ruinous powers. That also means that they are still gifted by the gods. As long as they know there is chaos and they enjoy living in some form of it they are just like all of the other chaos marines. Its kind of like how people view the emperor. The citizens of the imperium view him as a god. The Space Marines view him as an incredibly gifted man.

[hunter]

I really love the night lords and a preffered tactic of mine is basically to infiltrate your lord, raptors and possibly a lutenant in to the enemy's army.

it almost always works because if I get the first turn i will definetly be in charge range since i deploy 12 in. away from them and if i do not get the first turn it's not like they can see me anyway.

to support the raptors and lord I usually take five havocs with missile launchers and tank hunter skill with stealth(of course)

these guys have often nabbed a land raider or two in most of my games.

as for psi. powers I usualy have winds of chaos on my daemon prince but only in games of 1500-2000 points, an idea that just grabbed me while writing this was that it could actually have been really effective if I used a lutenant with mass mutation and winds of chaos. I mean just think of toughness 6 for the charging bikers.

 

unfortunatly I have not ever used bikes before and thats really a shame.

and because of that I would appreciate if you unloyal heretics could inform me wether bikes are good or c ;) p and also explain why.

 

good hunt.

[Nine_Breaker]

As for the raptors, they belong to the raptor cult - at no point does it mention that they are a signature unit of the NL. Yes it could be said that they excel at the same aspects of war as the NL, but they are not attached to any particular legion. Also, worship of the chaos powers is not required for mutation. Simply being in close proximity to the eye of terror is sufficient - in one sense the physical aspects of the raptors have started to reflect their own psyche.

The raptors were a great company of the Night Lords, lead by Talon Master Zso Sahaal(spl?) who was the heir to the Night Haunter... though I'm guessing they are more like mercenaries now. Though if they were originally Night Lords then it would make sense that the legion would have many more raptors then other legions.

 

Oh, and people believe this whole "NL use stealth so no tanks" thing. That's bull. In fact, the tank they are most likely to take is the Defiler. NL use an artillery style of warfare to cover their approach that terrorizes the enemy. Anything that can make an enemy check his Ld at a penalty (i.e. Ord Barrage, DVisage) is again fluffy for the NL.

 

I can't say I agree with that. I prefer to think that the Night Lords sneak into a city and spend weeks mutilating and killing citizens to cause fear instead of running in under an arty barrage with bolters blazing (how can they enjoy the fear if they kill everybody off in a few hours?). After all, killing silently and leaving your enemy chasing shadows (it's a fact that fear increases when you think you see something, instead of not seeing anything at all) in some part of the city where mutilated corpses hand from the buildings will cause more fear then a defiler and an army of Chaos Marines shredding a place.

[hunter]

what you say nine braker is possibly true but the night lords were well known for using orbital bombing of planets just to kill a few people so I wold say a defiler might fit in.

what would be better though would be to convert a rhino or land raider with a big cannon ( hellcannon perhaps?) and use it as a defiler.

I think that would be alot more fluffy.

[Kaldoth]

I was just wondering how would i show stealth adept for my NL squads and which squads you guys give stealth adept. Any suggestions?

[Argan]

stealth adept is a veteran skill, you dont need to show it

 

id give it to all the shooty squads or any that need a little extra protection

 

i usualy give all my NL squads it, very useful

 

all chaos unit could be used in a NL army with a bit of fluff. Night lords would use everything for a specific purpose. Each complany would have its own commander using his own tactics, just in miost cases these would be based on terrorand making the enemy wet themselves

[Boot]

sorry if this is kinda random, but i plan on making a LatD list, of mostly traitor guard and many NL as allies (you can do that right?[and can they have stealth adept??])

would it be fluffy that some NL would have a "pursuaded" and/or there own army of imperial guard like forces from a planet they occupy/control??

any suggestions to this end?

 

i was also planning to grow the army into three separate ones, an imperial guard one, a NL one, and a LatD one (combine the two)

 

any suggestions on where to start/continue?

 

i have a few marines, and a couple guardsmen (bout two squads of each) and i was thinking of adding a squad of raptors and a leman russ, and sticking the marines in rhinos

 

mutants are a bit unfluffy as i want a guard army feel, but under the NL control, not the emperors.

 

the arch heritic is a converted eversor assassin (thought he would be cool as a leitenant[gave him "wristblade" lightning claws])

 

also, haveing just read lord of the night (good book there) i was wondering if there would be many "good" NL people out there, against the emperor, but not having fallen as far as that axe guy. maybe they would have carved out there own nation in the far reaches of space(or taken one for there own)?

 

 

also, this is even more random, but does anyone have any actual tabletop strategies for NL (most of whats on this thread is army building) ?

[Kaldoth]

stealth adept is a veteran skill, you dont need to show it

 

id give it to all the shooty squads or any that need a little extra protection

 

i usualy give all my NL squads it, very useful

 

all chaos unit could be used in a NL army with a bit of fluff. Night lords would use everything for a specific purpose. Each complany would have its own commander using his own tactics, just in miost cases these would be based on terrorand making the enemy wet themselves

is it a vet skill? im fairly sure that it isnt. even if it is id like to show it anyway. give a little character to my marines.

[AmCjkh]

I've looked at the Night Lords rules for quite a while now, and I'm curious which squads Night Lord players equip with Infiltrate and which with Stealth Adept. For shooty squads I believe Stealth Adept would be a no-brainer, but what about squads that intend to get close? Do you think that the point spent are worth it if the squad intends to get in close combat, where you can't get a cover save anyway?

[Kaldoth]

infiltrate, move through cover, and furious charge for my CC squads. Stealth adept for my bolter squads and havocs.

[Stigmartyr]

Nihm, I am actually trying to get that through my public library system right now, as well as Beggars in Spain (just a scifi book) and Storm of Iron.

 

I am currently IW and I am heavily considering the NL's. Love their fluff.

 

I think that all 9 legions need a special char besides just 5. What about the NL, IW, AL, and WB? Anyone agree?

 

Oh, and we won't talk about Fabius Bile. Such a waste of 114 pts compared to a pumped up prince...but still cool.

dude dont under estimate fabius

 

 

with his genetic enhancement combined with furious charge , my cc squad is at +2 strength +2 Initiative .

 

And if i roll a 6 there all at +1 attack

 

( in victory points games this is not good because at the end of the game if you rolled a 6 on the genetic mutation table and got +1 s +1 i and +1 a the squad dies and counts as destroyed for victory points)

 

 

But imagine a cc squad with 4 attacks per model on charge , strength 5 hits and with an initiative of 6 . All i can say is look at the look on my opponents face when my squad of 9 has completely decimated his squad of terminators/bikes.

 

 

and if you roll a 1 (or 6 cant remember) with fabius , you get his close combat profile. Anything that is wounded by fabius dies automatically. Now you cant call that bad can you .

 

Plus i like gambling :) so its always fun to see whether your troops kill themselves or get mutated

 

 

 

One idea i had for my night lords , was to inclide cypher ( because i love special characters with good fluff) to accompany fabius ( both renegades) and to have one squad of fallen. This represents cyphers need to use both the imperium and chaos . But as the night lords hate both , this seems perfect for cypher since he plays on both sides .

 

 

And to use one squd of fallen dark angels ( but painted like normal dark angels) , because i want to start a dark angels army too ( cheaper this way)

[Kaldoth]

Nihm, I am actually trying to get that through my public library system right now, as well as Beggars in Spain (just a scifi book) and Storm of Iron.

 

I am currently IW and I am heavily considering the NL's. Love their fluff.

 

I think that all 9 legions need a special char besides just 5. What about the NL, IW, AL, and WB? Anyone agree?

 

Oh, and we won't talk about Fabius Bile. Such a waste of 114 pts compared to a pumped up prince...but still cool.

dude dont under estimate fabius

 

 

with his genetic enhancement combined with furious charge , my cc squad is at +2 strength +2 Initiative .

 

And if i roll a 6 there all at +1 attack

 

( in victory points games this is not good because at the end of the game if you rolled a 6 on the genetic mutation table and got +1 s +1 i and +1 a the squad dies and counts as destroyed for victory points)

 

 

But imagine a cc squad with 4 attacks per model on charge , strength 5 hits and with an initiative of 6 . All i can say is look at the look on my opponents face when my squad of 9 has completely decimated his squad of terminators/bikes.

 

 

and if you roll a 1 (or 6 cant remember) with fabius , you get his close combat profile. Anything that is wounded by fabius dies automatically. Now you cant call that bad can you .

 

Plus i like gambling :P so its always fun to see whether your troops kill themselves or get mutated

 

 

 

One idea i had for my night lords , was to inclide cypher ( because i love special characters with good fluff) to accompany fabius ( both renegades) and to have one squad of fallen. This represents cyphers need to use both the imperium and chaos . But as the night lords hate both , this seems perfect for cypher since he plays on both sides .

 

 

And to use one squd of fallen dark angels ( but painted like normal dark angels) , because i want to start a dark angels army too ( cheaper this way)

Correct me if Im wrong, but Im fairly sure you cant have two special characters in an army anyway. And Im also fairly sure you cant give fabius any extra things to go with his profile.

[Kazak]

You cna have two chars. You cannot have two Chaos Lords (so a Black Legion can never use both Abbadon and Fabius in the same army, since htey both count as your 0-1 Chaos Lord choice)

 

And he never gave Fabius anything else. He just is using his Genetic Enhancement ability to increase a marine squad with fabius even more. He can join and they get to keep their Furious Charge vet skill now in 4th ed.

 

As for the defiler (yes I will defend my favoured pets as being useful to all!)...

 

an artillery barrage is useful to the NL beyond its killing ability. Like I said, he can pin them because of the barrage (terrifying). Then, aren't artillery barrages very noisy? Even a Night Lord isn't completely silent charging through a city in power armour. The artillery can cover their approach and movements, using the defiler more to keep the enemy's heads down more than kill them. Plus, seeing this monstrosity come around the corner, metal screaming, taking down buildings and weapons blazing. I'd be scared as hell. We tmy power armour seeing that coming at me.

[Boot]

about the defiler thing, i say go for it, im sure SOME Night Lords would use a defiler (hey, a few groups of NL might have fallen deeply under the sway of chaos), but personally, i see the night lords as a marine based terrifying force. they dont need demons to take vengeance on those weak fools who wronged us. Night Lords should be fast enough to take the fight were it needs to be, but also subtle enough to kill what needs to be killed, and make sure that someone is left to tell who did it. it was that spikey guy in blue and gold armour that should be feared. not some pie plate of doom (mmmm pie). last time i checked, we werent imperial guard. thats what LatD are for.

 

i want our enemies to fear the Night Lords ourselves, not the falling shells of abbadons pet machines.

 

one defiler is ok, as you could say that your were gearing up for a seige or something like that (as a fallback plan since your fast shock attack failed) but try not to get used to it. i see pie plates as a crutch. way too unpredictable for night lords.

 

remember, the emperor wronged us and assassinated our primarch. we are on a quest for vengeance. we can do it ourselves with fear as our weapon. not some chaotic demon spawn.

[Kazak]

Here is what I believe the NL's should use to stay "fluffy"

 

Heavy:

1 Defiler, to cover their appraoch and keep the enemy down while the marines move into position.

Dreadnought (1 or 2). A raging baroque monstroisty coming at you, very angry, breaking down buildings, is quite terriyfying I'd think. Dreads need DVisage...

Havocs: infiltrating with heavy weapons (think snipers wtih missiles...) or with all special weapons (mobile fire teams, cleansing the city, door to door)

Predators: battle tanks do not belong in a NL army

Land Raiders: battle tanks do not belong in a NL army, unless it was transporting guys cross country

 

Troops:

Chaos marines: mobile fire teams (2 special weapons) or infiltrating fire teams (1 heavy 1 special) or terrorizing melee units (2 specials and upgraded champ)

 

Elites:

Ummmm...Chosen: Hardened vets in power armour. Termies are too slow for the NL's.

Oblits: Maybe. Arguable. But, they seem to slow

Possessed: You kidding me? This warped by Chaos, which the NL's reject? NEVER!

 

HQ:

Lord/Lt: Just a vet, should have DVisage just to fit fluff.

 

Fast Attack:

Bikes: due to the obvious restrictions of a bike in congested areas, these belong to cross country combat.

Raptors: Bread and butter of the NL's! These guys are fast, and terrifying. In a City they could jump up to windows to take down snipers and weapons teams.

Furies: Terrifying, and enslaved. To stay really fluffy, model chains onto them and keep them nearthe raptors until they can first hunt a unit, then they run on their own to their target.

 

 

Basdically, if it could reasonably argued as terrifying and speedy, go for it. NL's (as I am discovering playing them) are an extremely fun army to play just for the arguable fluff.

 

Best moment was beating IW on an open field (no cover to use my Stealth Adept) with the Night Lords losing a Dread and 3 marines to his full 1,000 pts. Great day for the NL's. Hooray for Infiltrate everywhere!

[Pacific81]

Here is what I believe the NL's should use to stay "fluffy"

 

 

Predators: battle tanks do not belong in a NL army

Land Raiders: battle tanks do not belong in a NL army, unless it was transporting guys cross country

 

Where else can the NL hang all their skeletons and disfigured corpses from?! :rolleyes:

 

Like your thoughts about using the furies as a kind of hunting pack though!