The AM, Mars, the Void Dragon, and Necrons

[Necrontyr]

The Void Dragon (at least according to DoW) can somehow influence things despite being in stasis. That would explain the Iron Men uprising, and the 'robotic skeletons' that was mentioned with the Elysrian drop troopers

 

Remember DoW isn't really Canon fluff, there isn't anything else supporting that either but it is possible.

 

Also, not exactly concrete info here, but apparently Necrons will eventually have vehicles, since they only (essentially) have troops at this point.

 

Necrons having another tank wouldn't really fit in, the point of the Necrons is that they are there to harvest, so perhaps a Necron Combine Harvester could appear :P

[Pyriel]

This entire debate, then, would be pointless, since if you say that most sources are biased, and that you want to leave your options open, then nothing will ever be decided on. confused.gif

Yes it´s true that all sources are biased but bear in mind the magnitude of said bias is also to be considered.

The liber chaotica is such a book as it describes in fanatical terms the unstoppingness of theese chaos cults.

This is far from in line with warhammer fantasy fluff and history overall.

 

Just take a look and compare fantasy sorcerors and their bands with liber chaotica tzeench cult descriptions.

Hell the empire has already lost and no army in the world stands a chance defeating one of theirs with sorcerors piloting invisible "deathstar" fortresses of utter doom and blahblahblah.

 

Ergo: I tend to look at "theese" kind of sources as a little mopre biased then the average rest.

 

Surely you still have it around? If so, could you look for it?

:P

I have a whole library of 40k fluff at home, the only way I can "find" something is by sheer chance alone like reading that book I havent for ages and voila, there it is.

 

If I run across anything at all toutching the old ones and slann I´ll let you know:)

 

How would you destroy everything? The galaxy had just been ravaged for millions of years by a now temporarily sleeping menace that if reawakened would just start the whole thing again. They nearly won last time against a species more advanced than most, if not all, other races. What makes you think the Slanni would stand a chance?

Dunno as it is to badly covered in the fluff and I only have one theory about it anyway but there was something that happened that killed of much of the living things in the galaxy and was of such danger that it made the ctan and necrons flee and hide until the danger was over and they could emerge again (now).

 

Only logic dictates that it must have been started by the old ones as only they would have that technology and only because nothing else seemed to stop the necrons.

 

Think about it for a while, what are the common variables here.

1 Ctan and necrons are weak to the warp and warp power can kill them easely.

2 What other life killing galactic-wide catastrophy is there that humans have records of...(take a guess)

3 The sum of those two are logical leeds to roughly what might have happened "back then" and started by whom.

 

It´s a very interessting theory.

Tell me what you think.

 

The Old Ones were nearly wiped out, but some were still present (As evidenced that nearly all were eaten by Slaanesh during the fall). The Emperor was around since 8000BCE, so there's a good 30,000 years to give a warning. You assume that the Old Ones, if able to give a warning, would enable whatever race they warned to destroy them. The Eldar knew about them and failed to stop them, so I don't see your point.

My point follows the fluff of the old ones actuly leaving our universe or "plane" and handling things over to the slann (the second super race)...who later on screwed up.

 

Also with 30 000 years of warning there would surely be a tangible result seen today but alas, such is not the case.

Same goes with the eldar.

Making common enemies and sharing knowledge is the strongest of weapons against a threat such as the ctans but nowhere are any hints of this seen thus it is illogical to assume it ever took place on any scale of importance.

 

Perhaps because the one who originally meddled was killed by Slaanesh during the fall. The only one left was Cegorach, and he was stuck in the webway with his Harlequins.

Someone who built the webway cannot simply be "stuck" in it.

 

Such as?

Looking and realising is the actual fun of fluff.

It comes with/after enough material has been read through but you already know that.

 

Sigmar might be the 20th primarch, but also in the running are Chuck Norris, and Steve Irwin (who was killed by something similar to a C'tan, and had his whole chapter show up for the funeral on their homeworld of Australia..)

A little respect for the dead would be called for please!

 

Remember DoW isn't really Canon fluff, there isn't anything else supporting that either but it is possible.

Remember that DoW has official and very very active support from GW.

[Mind L. Ess]

Im a necron player and i must say your theories are amusing! :)

.....and its perhaps time to reveal the actual bickering between the C'tan. the deciver almost destroyed the nightbringer with his puppets the eldar/krorks etc, and the deciver tricking the outsider* to eat the other weaker C'tans.

 

asu can see the deciver do want to eliminate the other C'tan so he'l get all the power/servants himself. Perhaps the necron ships landing on mars was a atempt to reveal the void dragoon to the humans who,surely, would relish in destroying a sleeping god??

 

the necrons themselves do not have any comradeship with their own kin. when the C'tan emerged, the necrontyr woved aligeance to the god that suited them best. the most popular God (like the egiptians gods Isis and bast) was the deciver, or at that point called "the messenger" beacause of his ability to understand mortal needs. and the very same servants serve the C'tan in the 41st millenium.

this is clear as ice! just look at the organisation of the necron:

 

lords= high priests of the *** C'tans temple or "politicians" etc

immortals= servants, fanatics, priests

warriors= the common masses

 

what i am trying to say is that the necron landing on mars might just have been part of a diversion/plot or some similar manipulating action by the star gods and us humble harvesters of souls(which our masters regard as nothing but tools)

 

interesting topic. looking forward to see what people think of the looming threat beneath mars. :)

 

i think it wil be vital that i inform u that the tyranids NEVER EVER attack planets with tall black monoliths. why i dont know......... but i can guess :lol:

and i mean u cant rely on the power of marketing making the Dow franchise (yes franchise!) perfectly fluffy

[Aidoneus]

Im a necron player and i must say your theories are amusing! :P

.....and its perhaps time to reveal the actual bickering between the C'tan. the deciver almost destroyed the nightbringer with his puppets the eldar/krorks etc, and the deciver tricking the outsider* to eat the other weaker C'tans.

I'm a Necron player too, and your interpretation is, I am afraid, wrong. The Deceiver does not control, lead, or otherwise directly influence the Eldar or Krork (Orks). The Old Ones created those two races, along with many others, in their war against the C'Tan. The only race the C'Tan control is that of the Necrontyr, now the lifeless Necrons. They've enslaved other races, true, but only to devour them later.

 

Perhaps you're confusing the Deceiver with the Eldar Harlequins' "Laughing God." Different entity entirely. I'm not super well-versed in Eldar mythology, but I'm pretty sure their "Gods" are actually Gods in the technical sense, much like Chaos Gods are. The C'Tan aren't technically Gods, they're merely vast, dispersed energy beings with immense powers over the Materium, but no presence or power whatsoever in the Warp.

 

asu can see the deciver do want to eliminate the other C'tan so he'l get all the power/servants himself. Perhaps the necron ships landing on mars was a atempt to reveal the void dragoon to the humans who,surely, would relish in destroying a sleeping god??

Interesting theory. It wouldn't be hard to envision the Deceiver doing something like that. However, I think I recall somewhere reading something about the Deceiver needing to awaken the other C'Tan to overpower the other races in the Galaxy. After all, he is the weakest C'Tan in terms of outright power, but he's able to manipulate the other C'Tan in ways that help his own plans. I'm pretty sure he was the one who orchestrated the Nightbringer's awakening (I wish I had my codex with me).

 

the necrons themselves do not have any comradeship with their own kin. when the C'tan emerged, the necrontyr woved aligeance to the god that suited them best. the most popular God (like the egiptians gods Isis and bast) was the deciver, or at that point called "the messenger" beacause of his ability to understand mortal needs. and the very same servants serve the C'tan in the 41st millenium.

You're right about them having no alliegiance to each other as a race, and being divided in their loyalities to the various C'Tan. However, I don't think the Deceiever has considerably more followers that any other C'Tan. I could be wrong though. Can you tell me where you found that information?

 

i think it wil be vital that i inform u that the tyranids NEVER EVER attack planets with tall black monoliths. why i dont know......... but i can guess

The most likely explanation is that the Hive Mind exists in the Warp, which means it would be blocked out by the warp-restraining Black Monoliths of the Necrons. If the 'Nids went down onto those planets, they'd lose control entirely, and it would amount to an enourmous waste of resources for them.

[Necrontyr]

You're right about them having no alliegiance to each other as a race, and being divided in their loyalities to the various C'Tan. However, I don't think the Deceiever has considerably more followers that any other C'Tan. I could be wrong though. Can you tell me where you found that information?

 

It does say in the Necron codex that he has the largest armies.

 

I also think that the Necrons kept their allegience to the god they served in life/when they were originally 'Necronified' and kept that when they awoke again, so those who served the Dragon would still serve him in the same way as they did when he was awake, they'd follow his last 'Orders'.

 

lords= high priests of the *** C'tans temple or "politicians" etc

immortals= servants, fanatics, priests

warriors= the common masses

 

I'd agree about that, I'd also say that the Immortals would have been Generals in the armed forces, they definately had one as they were fighting the Old Ones before they discovered the C'tan.

[Mind L. Ess]

I'm a Necron player too, and your interpretation is, I am afraid, wrong. The Deceiver does not control, lead, or otherwise directly influence the Eldar or Krork (Orks). The Old Ones created those two races, along with many others, in their war against the C'Tan.

 

i do not remember at what time in necron history the betrayal found place, but my use of the eldar and krork as an example could be missleading.

However a puppet is not under direct control; the puppet has strings!

the deciver is well known for "pulling strings" and reshaping his necrodemis to walk among his enemies. he has even disguised himself as human governor once!

 

but i do not want to seem like a wise-guy...

i apriciate (in some way) that u are sceptical towards the theories ;)

 

it just proves that games workshop has given us some really sticky bubblegum to chew on.

[Demonic D]

qoute:

he has even disguised himself as human governor once!

 

When? were did you find that peace of fluff...

[Necrontyr]

Necron Codex, he tricked a Callidus assassain into believing he was Govenor Takis, she used her Phase blade on him and unfortunatly for her it didn't quite work...

[Mind L. Ess]

that i found in a short story about a Vinculus(?) asassin i think :teehee: (not good a inq stuff)

 

i belive i read it either in the necron codex or in witch hunter- deamonhunter codex.

 

anyways the story told that a assasin (those with c'tan blades) tried to assassinate a heretical governor. however the C'tan blade simple melted into the governor and disapeared, then the governor laughted and devoured the assasins escense.

[Necrontyr]

It was the Deciever, and I just mentioned that exact same story, it was a Callidus assassain.

[Demonic D]

rigth that one.. yes!!!

[Mechanicus]

First off, sorry for the late reply. Revision for exams is taking up more time than I would like.

 

Yes it´s true that all sources are biased but bear in mind the magnitude of said bias is also to be considered.

The liber chaotica is such a book as it describes in fanatical terms the unstoppingness of theese chaos cults.

This is far from in line with warhammer fantasy fluff and history overall.

 

Just take a look and compare fantasy sorcerors and their bands with liber chaotica tzeench cult descriptions.

Hell the empire has already lost and no army in the world stands a chance defeating one of theirs with sorcerors piloting invisible "deathstar" fortresses of utter doom and blahblahblah.

 

Ergo: I tend to look at "theese" kind of sources as a little mopre biased then the average rest.

Fair enough, I suppose.

 

:o

I have a whole library of 40k fluff at home, the only way I can "find" something is by sheer chance alone like reading that book I havent for ages and voila, there it is.

 

If I run across anything at all toutching the old ones and slann I´ll let you know:)

Thanks. :)

 

Dunno as it is to badly covered in the fluff and I only have one theory about it anyway but there was something that happened that killed of much of the living things in the galaxy and was of such danger that it made the ctan and necrons flee and hide until the danger was over and they could emerge again (now).

 

Only logic dictates that it must have been started by the old ones as only they would have that technology and only because nothing else seemed to stop the necrons.

The Enslaver plague was what caused that. The warp was in turmoil because of the Young Races' psychic powers, Kaelis Ra putting the fear of death into every race (Barring the Krork, whose background psychic powers might cancel it out somehow), and malevolent warp creatures began to come out of the woodwork of the galaxy. These took control of the 'cattle races', as the C'tan would have seen them, and began to kill them off.

 

The C'tan believed that the Enslavers themselves couldn't harm them, and that is true. Enslavers are small, petty warp entities that use psychic creatures to create a warp gate to let them in to the material world and then control hundreds of servants. There was little to nothing they could do against the C'tan.

 

1 Ctan and necrons are weak to the warp and warp power can kill them easely.

That's never been stated. It has been stated that the warp is "anathema" to the C'tan, but nothing beyond that. Vaul is said to have bought time so he could make the Talismans to attack the Void Dragon, but we don't know if this was a last ditch super-weapon that the C'tan couldn't use against them, whether it was to be aimed at the sun (to stop the Void Dragon getting much stronger) or the C'tan (to attempt to destroy it), or even if he was confident it would work. We know that the Eldar believe the Dragon was "becalmed" by the Talismans (Xenology). Not hurt, or damaged, but becalmed. Either because the Talismans destroyed the star being absorbed, or the Void Dragon itself was calmed by some of it's energy being dissipated. We don't know.

 

Tell me what you think.

I think it needs some work, since we already know that what caused the C'tan to sleep was the cattle being taken away. Rather than waste their strength, they just decided to wait for it to subside. This is in the Necron Codex.

 

My point follows the fluff of the old ones actuly leaving our universe or "plane" and handling things over to the slann (the second super race)...who later on screwed up.

Which, once again, I have no recollection of. A source would be appreciated, if you can find it.

 

Also with 30 000 years of warning there would surely be a tangible result seen today but alas, such is not the case.

Same goes with the eldar.

You're assuming that they would be able to engineer something in thirty thousand years that would be effective against a race millions (Some sources, such as Deus Ex Mechanicus, claim that Necrontyr were around over six hundred thousand years ago) of years old, with technology to match that age.

 

Making common enemies and sharing knowledge is the strongest of weapons against a threat such as the ctans but nowhere are any hints of this seen thus it is illogical to assume it ever took place on any scale of importance.

Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence. As said, I fail to see what they could do in that period of time.

 

Someone who built the webway cannot simply be "stuck" in it.

Why not? Just because it knows it's way around doesn't mean it can stay outside it for long, if at all. ;) After all, Slaanesh isn't getting any weaker, and warp entities don't tend to last long outside of the warp or webway.

 

Looking and realising is the actual fun of fluff.

It comes with/after enough material has been read through but you already know that.

I'm intrigued, please continue.

[TheDarkApostle]

My point follows the fluff of the old ones actuly leaving our universe or "plane" and handling things over to the slann (the second super race)...who later on screwed up.

Which, once again, I have no recollection of. A source would be appreciated, if you can find it.

Lizardmen Army Book :teehee:

[Mechanicus]

Lizardmen Army Book :wink:

Ah, so not technically of the 40k universe... An easy mistake to make, considering the similarities with Slann and Old Ones.

[Magnus the red]

I'm a Necron player too, and your interpretation is, I am afraid, wrong. The Deceiver does not control, lead, or otherwise directly influence the Eldar or Krork (Orks). The Old Ones created those two races, along with many others, in their war against the C'Tan.

 

i do not remember at what time in necron history the betrayal found place, but my use of the eldar and krork as an example could be missleading.

However a puppet is not under direct control; the puppet has strings!

the deciver is well known for "pulling strings" and reshaping his necrodemis to walk among his enemies. he has even disguised himself as human governor once!

 

but i do not want to seem like a wise-guy...

i apriciate (in some way) that u are sceptical towards the theories :D

 

it just proves that games workshop has given us some really sticky bubblegum to chew on.

 

Thre is adifference between eldar and human though. The deceiver couldn't fool an eldar as he has no presence in the warp and the eldar could sense this.

[Vassakov]

Dunno whether this has been mentioned before, I haven't managed to read everything, just get the gist, but back on topic -

 

Ferrus Mannus killed a Wyrm made out of metal similar to Necrodyrmis.

That may have been a fragment of a C'tan. Read the Ultamarines novels, a Sergeant loses an Arm against the Nightbringer and part of the living metal embeds itself in his arm, and his bionic replacement gain Necron self repair abilities.

 

Ferrus Mannus would therefore represent the ultimate fusion to AM. Whether or not they realize what they are meddling with is anyones guess...

[Divergent Reality]

or that arm could simply be a heroically portrayed version of normal necron limb.

[Pyriel]

Sorry mechanicus, tried to find the fluff on the old ones amongst all the books I have and still havent found it. To much material to go through.

 

Did a google on the subject and google agreed to the things I said but pointed out the wrong sources, really weird.

 

 

Ferrus Mannus killed a Wyrm made out of metal similar to Necrodyrmis.

That may have been a fragment of a C'tan. Read the Ultamarines novels, a Sergeant loses an Arm against the Nightbringer and part of the living metal embeds itself in his arm, and his bionic replacement gain Necron self repair abilities.

 

Ferrus Mannus would therefore represent the ultimate fusion to AM. Whether or not they realize what they are meddling with is anyones guess...

You should also bear in mind that the Primarchs were highly psychic beings with connections to the warp.

The best weapon against the ctans was the warp and those who could tap into it so there might be a problem merging those two together (a primarch and necrodermis...for the favour of the primarch that is)

[Vassakov]

Ferrus Mannus killed a Wyrm made out of metal similar to Necrodyrmis.

That may have been a fragment of a C'tan. Read the Ultamarines novels, a Sergeant loses an Arm against the Nightbringer and part of the living metal embeds itself in his arm, and his bionic replacement gain Necron self repair abilities.

 

Ferrus Mannus would therefore represent the ultimate fusion to AM. Whether or not they realize what they are meddling with is anyones guess...

You should also bear in mind that the Primarchs were highly psychic beings with connections to the warp.

The best weapon against the ctans was the warp and those who could tap into it so there might be a problem merging those two together (a primarch and necrodermis...for the favour of the primarch that is)

 

Hmmm... that is a good point. Then again, all humans (save the Untouchables) are psychic to one degree or another, so the C'tan must have some level of resistance to the warp. Also, the C'tan first devepoped by devouring souls, which is basically what Daemons do. That said, I'm no great expert on Necrons, Star Gods or the Warp. Its just my little take on it. Also, whilst the Sergeant in question was in The EoT, the arm was even more powerful, so the warp can't be totally destructive to the C'Tan, but then it is a BL novel. What does anyone else think?

[Divergent Reality]

i think the c'tan absorb people's 'energy' not so much the soul. its a hot debate, but i think the c'tan dont touch the soul when they chow down.

[Demonic D]

The more I look at Stargate SG-1 the more Necronside I will become... :confused:

 

Quote: Vassakoc

Hmmm... that is a good point. Then again, all humans (save the Untouchables) are psychic to one degree or another, so the C'tan must have some level of resistance to the warp

 

Well first not all human are psychic just a few one, very few ones.

And yes the C`tan are gods and they do can stand the warp abet. But here armies cannot so they cant control it/ use it.

fore example: Take the gothic war when Abby go his hands on the 2 black fortresses. It is state that it was the Deceiver that whispered to him/ trick him to attack the gothic sector. And to able to do that, well that you really need to have some powers to work with...

[Aidoneus]

Well first not all human are psychic just a few one, very few ones.

Not true. Virtually all humans have very low levels of psychic energies. They have warp reflections, occasional minor premonitions, etc... Of course, only a very few manifest anywhere near strong enough psychic powers to be a threat (or useful) to anyone, but that doesn't mean the rest of 'em aren't very slightly psychic.

And yes the C`tan are gods and they do can stand the warp abet. But here armies cannot so they cant control it/ use it.

C'tan are not "gods" per se, only extremely powerful physical beings. And it's not that they're weak to warp powers. More that they themselves have absolutely no power over the warp, as they have no presence there.

fore example: Take the gothic war when Abby go his hands on the 2 black fortresses. It is state that it was the Deceiver that whispered to him/ trick him to attack the gothic sector. And to able to do that, well that you really need to have some powers to work with...

He needs power, sure, but that doesn't necessarily mean warp or psychic power. The Deciever uses the powers of deception and manipulation to influence people. He also occassionally uses his vast powers over the physical realm when fighting, but that's a slightly less subtle tactic.

[Pyriel]

Well first not all human are psychic just a few one, very few ones.

.

.

Not true. Virtually all humans have very low levels of psychic energies. They have warp reflections, occasional minor premonitions, etc... Of course, only a very few manifest anywhere near strong enough psychic powers to be a threat (or useful) to anyone, but that doesn't mean the rest of 'em aren't very slightly psychic.

 

As Adonious says.

More on this can be found in the necromunda rule book. It is stated that a majority of the inhabitants of a hive are psychic to a certain degree.

[Pyriel]

Ah, so not technically of the 40k universe... An easy mistake to make, considering the similarities with Slann and Old Ones.

Well don´t be so sure about it.

There are plenty of 40k things imbedded into fantasy, all pointing towards fantasy being a world in the 40k unierse and surrounded by a warp storm that makes intersolar contact imopssible or very difficult.

[Bigger-than-Jesus]

Ah, so not technically of the 40k universe... An easy mistake to make, considering the similarities with Slann and Old Ones.

Well don´t be so sure about it.

There are plenty of 40k things imbedded into fantasy, all pointing towards fantasy being a world in the 40k unierse and surrounded by a warp storm that makes intersolar contact imopssible or very difficult.

GW said that the fantasy world was not a part of the 40k universe(heard off the BL forum i think)