ironloki Posted July 9, 2006 Share Posted July 9, 2006 Wasn't there a mention that aaages ago in 40k fluff that the Imperium had a large amount of Robots but they went a bit crazy (Ala Matrix)? Need to check if this is correct but perhaps this was some early stirring of the rise of the machines. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aidoneus Posted July 9, 2006 Author Share Posted July 9, 2006 Wasn't there a mention that aaages ago in 40k fluff that the Imperium had a large amount of Robots but they went a bit crazy (Ala Matrix)? Need to check if this is correct but perhaps this was some early stirring of the rise of the machines. I don't remember that, but of course that doesn't mean it didn't exist. If you can find it I would be very interested! If that was really in the 40k fluff, maybe it explains why they now only use half-machines like servitors, instead of full-fledged robots. I always wondered about that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aradiel Posted July 9, 2006 Share Posted July 9, 2006 the AM may have some clues that there is something in the noctis labyrinth, but may not be sure of exactly what. the site where the last shroud cruiser crashed has been quarantined and its guarded by an entire skitari legion. just one problem...if the AM really is under the sway of the void dragon (out of interest, where did that name come from? and what is the name of the other missing c'tan?) wouldnt they be putting their efforts into building more necrons? my reasoning is that necrons are sentient machines, right? and the AM are dead set against AI unless its servitor-based...SO AM=against the necrons.the necrons are living creatures (the necrontyr) turned into machines by the c Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Tyler Posted July 9, 2006 Share Posted July 9, 2006 You can find out about the "Iron Men" if you check out the links provided in this forum. One of the Specialist Games Inquisitor files has some brief information. Back in the Rogue Trader days there were robots used by the Imperium. They were part of the Adeptus Cybernetica. They weren't quite the AIs, but had very simple programs and could be used in armies. They appear to have fallen by the wayside since 2nd edition, and may have been replaced by the development of the servitors (I don't know). These robots, according to the Rogue Trader era fluff, were around up until M41, and the Desert Lions Chapter were noted for a campaign in which they participated in many actions with the robots. Like I said, though, the existence of the robots may be obsolete/superceded fluff. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aradiel Posted July 9, 2006 Share Posted July 9, 2006 i think the robots may have "evolved" into the current day pretorians Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mr_lee_ Posted July 9, 2006 Share Posted July 9, 2006 Within the Adeptus Mechanicus there is a fully fledged group who refer to themselves as the 'Cult of the Dragon'. These people are the ones who look after the stasis chamber of what they believe is their machine god and they are quite aware that it has something to do with the Necrontyr, especially following the Mars Incident where the Necrons deposited something on Mars. The Cult of the Dragon is extremely secretivce (with good reason) and is revered as one of the most dedicated and pious of the MA, but regarded with extreme suspicion by the Inquisition because they seem to shun the Emperor. The final missing C'Tan is called the Outsider. He is trapped within a Dyson Sphere on the Western fringes of the Imperium and is believed to be the reason so many Tyranid hive fleet are coming from that direction. They miss the sphere continually but to get to the Dyson Sphere to unlock him means taking on entire Tyranid Hive Fleets one after the other. Leviathan gave the Sphere a wide berth. And now for some C'Tan points; Ferrus Manus fought the Dragon and his metal hands are believed to be Necron hands, a possible reason he didn't follow his good friend Fulgrim to the side of Chaos. The Eldar are all too aware that the Void Dragon is on Mars because they refer to Mars as the 'Vaul Moon' or Forge Moon. They won't be attempting to get it back soon though. The C'Tan are also responsible for Abaddon capturing the Blackstone Fortress - the Talismen of Vaul - because these huge space monoliths are one of the few weapons able to effectively hurt the C'Tan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aradiel Posted July 9, 2006 Share Posted July 9, 2006 And now for some C'Tan points; Ferrus Manus fought the Dragon and his metal hands are believed to be Necron hands, a possible reason he didn't follow his good friend Fulgrim to the side of Chaos. that is quite unlikely, as the dragon has been locked in mars for over 60 million years (once a c Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mr_lee_ Posted July 9, 2006 Share Posted July 9, 2006 If you read the introduction to the Iron Hands, Ferrus Manus fought a dragon, which WAS a C'Tan construct (Just checked) . When he killed it he got wonderful metal hands similar to the metal Phase Swords are made of. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LordXaras Posted July 9, 2006 Share Posted July 9, 2006 It's just a theory, mr.lee, and very little evidence supports it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aidoneus Posted July 9, 2006 Author Share Posted July 9, 2006 As has been stated, we know the Dragon is on Mars, and we know it is still in its stasis chamber, which means we know it hasn't been out and about since before mankind so much as became the dominant species out our planet. Ferrus couldn't not have possibly fought it. Remember, the C'Tan bodies of living metal were constructed by the Necrontyr. There's nothing to say that the Necrontyr only built these bodies for the star gods. Perhaps this was merely some other Necron construct. And I would very much like you know you source for that first claim you put forth. The one about the Cult of the Dragon. That sounds extremely unlikely to me. I will agree with your last two points. The Eldar do know the Dragon is on Mars (so does Abaddon). But that doesn't mean that people know it's on Mars. In fact, in the document in the Necron codex where an Eldar text refers to the Vaul-Moon, the human interpreter doesn't even realize it's talking about Mars. And as for the Blackstone Fortress, yes that was the Deciever. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Count Posted July 11, 2006 Share Posted July 11, 2006 i dont know if this link is allowed, but if it is and it works there is quite a bit about the C'Tan here C'Tan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aidoneus Posted July 11, 2006 Author Share Posted July 11, 2006 Well, I guess that clears up a few things, if we take it to be accurate (I usualy trust wiki). -there is a cult of the dragon, but it's very secret and well-hidden -only the 2 C'Tan are awake -the Imperium most certainly does have knowledge of the C'Tan But I'm still curious as to what will happen when the Dragon awakes. Will the Cult of the Dragon rebel against the rest of the AM? Or will they simply be consumed? Or, perhaps, will they realize the error of their ways and turn back to the side of humanity? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the jeske Posted July 12, 2006 Share Posted July 12, 2006 When the dragon awakens the first thing he does is feed .First on mars then on the sun. Wonder if all tose forts and fleets are enough to stop him ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alexious Posted July 12, 2006 Share Posted July 12, 2006 Just to reward myself for reading thrugh all of these posts, here are a few items of additional info: The Outsider is supposed to live in that Giant artificial sphere in Codex Necrons that the splinter tyranid fleets are avoiding. To the best of my knowledge (gleaned from various bits of fluff like Codex Necrons, Deus Mechanicus, the BFG short fiction on the jackal ships [its the piece about the necrons infiltrating Mars], and some other sources) the Deciever has been awake the longest of the C'tan, he orchestrated the Gothic War in order to destroy the Blackstone Fortresses (also known as the Talismans of Vaul) which are weapons the Eldar have forgotten how to use, but can destroy a C'tan (only 1 is left and possesed either by SLaanesh or a slaaneshi deamon). The Deciever is also sometimes credited as showing Abbaddon where Drach'nyen was hidden (story talks about him being lef by a golden deamon) plus a minor deamon shows Abbaddon the Dragon's prison. The Deceiver orchestrated the Nightbringer being woken up because he felt he couldn't subjugate humanity alone, but he fears the other 2 C'tan, and especially the Void Dragon. Currently, the Deciever is pretending to be an AM Magos and is lobbying to get the Labyrinthis Noctis filled with Ferrocrete just to keep him locked away with no chance of escape. Also, the heretic Magos Corteswaine is the one credited with the ideas that the Cult of the Dragon adhere to and it is very much a small and secretive group who have seen one C'tan, unlcear whether it is the vOid Dragon or the Deciever. Some other tidbits, there is an STC that makes iron men in First and Only and is destroyed by Gaunt so that no one being could abuse the power they represent. The mechanicus do not utilize new ideas, instead a concept or technology must be tested and proven over the course of a couple hundred years - one example of this is the Land Raider Helios. It slows tech advancement but is meant to prevent another Dark Age of Technology. Finally, I think the Iron Hands would side with the Imperium. They may revere the machine, and seek to rid themselves of the weakness of flesh, but they also abhor the xenos. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Count Posted July 14, 2006 Share Posted July 14, 2006 I think what the cult of the dragon would do depends on two things Would they realise the Void dragon wasn't the machine god when it awakes? And who does their loyalty lie to first, the emperor or the machine god? Work that out and the AM's actions fall into place Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aidoneus Posted July 14, 2006 Author Share Posted July 14, 2006 First off, the easy one. I'm relatively certain that the AM is more loyal to themselves and their god than they are to the Imperium. If you read through the Adeptus Mechanicus during the Heresy thread, it becomes pretty clear that the AM are more allied to the Imperium for their mutual benefit than they are actually a part of the Imperium itself. Thus, if the Imperium came into direct conflict with the Machine God, I have to assume the AM would side with the latter. Second off, I think the question, "Would they realise the Void dragon wasn't the machine god when it awakes?" is rather poorly worded, from a logical point of view (no offense). The Dragon has been sleeping on Mars for much longer than humans have been there. It fed the AM information on technology that they couldn't have gotten without it. Ancient AM tomes refer to a machine god before the coming of the Emperor. etc... In other words, the C'Tan Dragon is the Machine God! It isn't a matter of confing one god for another, it's a matter of confusing the nature of the one God. So, that being the case, I must respond no; the AM would not realize that the Void Dragon wasn't the machine god. Of course, if you put together my two answers, you'll understand what my prediction is overall. It will be a dark day for humanity, to be sure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Count Posted July 15, 2006 Share Posted July 15, 2006 sorry, probably could have worded that better. But I have got to say I agree, to me it seems that only a few elements of the AM have integrated with the Imperium to the extent they would side with it (techmarines, though not strictly AM probably would stay loyal to the chapter, and maybe some Guard issued techpreists), by and large AM would follow the Dragon, but what would it do to them? would it make them necron type beings? I am not sure as then they would lose their grasp of technology. Also as an aside, am i right when i think the AM has control over many Titans, or am i being an idiot and confusing fluff? oh, and good point that the Void Dragon, is, to all intents and purposes, the machine god. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aidoneus Posted July 16, 2006 Author Share Posted July 16, 2006 The Titan Legions come from Mars, and certainly the AM have a lot of them at their disposal, but I think by now some of the Titans are under teh control of Imperial Navy or Imperial Guard or something like that. Maybe not. I dunno. But at any rate, the AM certainly do have a lot of them. Also, the AM aren't just on Mars. It's a point I just now thought of. What happens with all the AM on other worlds when the Dragon awakes? They're more separated from it, and it would be easier for them to see the Dragon for what it truly is, a xenos monster. Would they rebel along with the Martians? Would they be able to keep the Martians from rebeling? Or would they join their fellow techies in the revolution? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Count Posted July 16, 2006 Share Posted July 16, 2006 is the cult of the dragon purely a mars thing? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aidoneus Posted July 16, 2006 Author Share Posted July 16, 2006 is the cult of the dragon purely a mars thing? I've been trying to find out. I can't find any info that specifies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Count Posted July 17, 2006 Share Posted July 17, 2006 Also a point i just thought of, is the fabricator general a worshipper of the void dragon/machine god? if so he will be able to place immense power against the imperium, one of the most important men in the imperium turning against it, and seeing how most imperials mindlessly follow orders from above, if he does then it will be a dark day for the imperium... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Severus6 Posted July 17, 2006 Share Posted July 17, 2006 Anything is possible but I would think that the Fabricator General and the rest of the higher echelon of the AM have their own agenda that is not wrapped up in a cult. The Fabricator General during the Heresy actually turned against the Emperor but not necessarily because he was possessed by the forces of chaos. It was more than likely to free himself of the newly formed Imperium. If that situation arises again I can imagine the same scenario playing itself out once more. Knowledge may be power but to the AM it is something else as well. It is the promise of immortality,...the belief that your thoughts and all knowledged gained in your lifetime is supplanted into engrams and fused with the great machine. If the C'tan promised this in a faster and more "secure" fashion, ie; everyone could take part, right down to the lowest menial then there could indeed be a problem. Mass defection of the AM based on the promise of complete intelligence and logic in a immortal stream of energy would be a hard prize to resist for those who continuously strive to improve themselves and gain knowledge. Bottom line, I think if the AM leave then they will do for their own reasons, the C'tan will merely be the catalyst. That and its not like they (the C'tan) havent done this thing before. They have whole legions of individuals, now machines, that gave away their physical form for a quasi-life inside a metal shell. Certain groups within the AM would be no different, regardless the reason. Severus6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Decaln Posted July 18, 2006 Share Posted July 18, 2006 I read some fluf on the Iron men somewhere and it basicly said that they were made when humams had a beter knwolage of technology. They were like sevetors buy wernt just monotask idiots. They were sophisticatd and had AI "abobmnable inteligance"(it was called ths after the war). They rebeled agaist there human creatrors and tryed to kill everyone(mayby a little over simplfyed). They were deafeted after a masive masive war. And the adeptus mecanicus baned "abobmnable inteligance". This is why they hate tau so mutch because of the drones. This ment all imperial tech has to be stuped. Hence sevetors instead of the origanal iron men. When a techpreist rediscovers it or trys to use it they are excomunicated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Decaln Posted July 18, 2006 Share Posted July 18, 2006 KHAMRIANS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xenox Posted July 19, 2006 Share Posted July 19, 2006 i think the robots may have "evolved" into the current day pretorians I don't think so because Robots of the Adeptus Cybernetica are described in various passages of fluff as being at least the size if not bigger than Dreadnoughts and having some components in common with them, to the point of them being interchangeable (in the sense of repairing battle damage). These robots have never been fully AI and were manufactured using mechanical and organical parts (although just about the only organical component was the neural cortex). It is fed simple battlefield commands but has to be overseen by a Tech-Adept overseer or Tech-Priest at all times. The weapons they carry in a standard configuration are composed of some kind of CC weapon, most likely a Dreadnought CCW, a Heavy weapon on the other arm and a heavy weapon on the carapace. Robots are still widely used in Explorator forces and in planetary defence. The Praetorians on the other hand are about the size of Terminators and are created for the sole purpose of protecting their masters at all costs. + When the Void Dragon would be released I believe that the Void Dragon would start to feed on the souls (or whatever) of the Cult Mechanicus members (as the nightbringer did with the original necrontyr) they might aswell realize that it is not infact the Machine-God they worship... or I could be wrong, alas, in which case the Imperium would be delt a mighty blow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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