The AM, Mars, the Void Dragon, and Necrons

[Hrvat]

The Iron Hand would never turn even Horus knew that. Inspite their believs that flesh is weak they are above all loyal to humanity.

 

On the matter of AM I have a strange feeling that they will go down the road of the Necrotyr and that will actualy release humanty from technological stagantion for there are a million worlds where geniouses can be found not to mention SM techmarines who will no longer be schackeld my AM regulations. Give SM TM a century of free hands and Imprium will be once again capable to create immortal marines, revive Primarch, fix the Emperor and strike back at it's many foes.

 

With all these that is going on about the Necrons I somehow feel that Traitor Legions have a role to play not all but possible some legions might get a final chance for redemption but that may be just me dreaming.

 

While on subject it would be an interesting thing to see Dragon duel Perturabo necrodermis vs warpsteel

[Aidoneus]

On the matter of AM I have a strange feeling that they will go down the road of the Necrotyr and that will actualy release humanty from technological stagantion for there are a million worlds where geniouses can be found not to mention SM techmarines who will no longer be schackeld my AM regulations. Give SM TM a century of free hands and Imprium will be once again capable to create immortal marines, revive Primarch, fix the Emperor and strike back at it's many foes.

 

From my understanding of fluff, I'd say it's the inquisition, not the AM, who is resonsible for Humanity's technological stagnation. Many tech adepts do attempt to study new technologies, but inquisitors denounce (and burn) them as heretics. Without the AM, not only would Humanity still be unable to progress, but they would in fact lose whatever tiny understanding they have of their current technology. The loss of the AM would put the imperium into an age of technological recession, with only those planets/chapters capable of making their own equipment recieving supplies.

[Freebooter]

I like your idea Hrvat but i don't think that GW will let the Imperium regain it's full power. If they were to do that the fluff would have to throw something out to balance it, the game wouldn't survive if the Imperium were clearly better than their foes.

If they wanted to complete the 40K story i wouldn't be surprised if it followed your chain of thought but that would be the end of 40K in my opinion. There'd be nowhere to go.

 

Unless all the C'tan were released and the Imperium regained some of their former power to balance out the enslaught of the Necrontyr.

[Aidoneus]

I like your idea Hrvat but i don't think that GW will let the Imperium regain it's full power. If they were to do that the fluff would have to throw something out to balance it...

 

[...]

 

Unless all the C'tan were released and the Imperium regained some of their former power to balance out the enslaught of the Necrontyr.

 

Yeah, like the nigh-unstoppable Necrons, who warred against the Old Ones, the Eldar, and virtually every other young race out there, and still weren't beaten (went into stasis simply to let their food replenish).

 

Or perhaps the wave after wave of Tyranid Hive Fleets, who are simply too numerous fo us to kill.

 

Or since pretty much every race is getting stronger (Tau getting more advanced, Chaos getting more organized, etc.) the Imperium needs to get considerably stronger to cope.

 

Just a thought.

[Wolffje]

I like the idea of a stronger Imperium. Being into marketing myself I think it could be

a good marketing stunt to make the emperor rise from the golden throne fluffwise

and return the Imperium to its full power.

 

I don't think that would kill the 40k universe. Because it seems fluffwise all the other

races are also gearing up. I think that even the Emperor could merely hold all these

foes at bay and would be seeking opportunities to tilt the balance in his favour. But

all the other races would be doing the same, hence everything balances out. But the

40k universe would get a lot more interesting with 4 C'tan, 4 chaos gods and a

super-human psyker running around causing all kinds of mayhem.

 

I have no idea where GW is taking the fluff but the above idea is where I would take it

if I was them.

 

Yeah, like the nigh-unstoppable Necrons, who warred against the Old Ones, the Eldar, and virtually every other young race out there, and still weren't beaten (went into stasis simply to let their food replenish).

 

Or perhaps the wave after wave of Tyranid Hive Fleets, who are simply too numerous fo us to kill.

 

Or since pretty much every race is getting stronger (Tau getting more advanced, Chaos getting more organized, etc.) the Imperium needs to get considerably stronger to cope.

 

Just a thought.

[Freebooter]

But if the Imperium regained only a small part of their former glory everyone else would be well and fruly screwed.

The only way i can see of them getting a tiny bit stronger would be for them to find a complete STC or at least mostly complete. I also had the idea of maybe the human race becomes a lot more psychically aware as the warp gains more power from the forces of chaos...

[buzz_navy]

or perhaps gw could resurect one of the two lost space marine leigons the ones theirs no records of ..just think about it 2 full leigons :tu:

[Freebooter]

Those legions are long gone bro...

 

A space marine lives for 1000 years on average? 1500 if he's lucky.

Those legions were lost at the time of the Horus Heresy. They long gone.

Unless they've been corrupted by chaos that is and then we can't accept help from them.

[buzz_navy]

ah but you forget about them being lost or traped in the warp in which a day to them may be a 1,000 years in real space :D , or what if the man whos now on the golden throne ordered the leigons into stasis and destroyed all records of them being placed their .. hmm ?

[Aidoneus]

All right guys, interesting discussion and all, but lets try to keep things on topic.

[Eddie Orlock]

Well, the 20th legion will be formed when the Emperor stirs from the Golden Throne, Finishes the Crusade and stumbles across his long lost son, Sigmar. They will then establish the Sigma legion "the SUM of all warriors". This will be the final legion as the 19th turned traitor in the heresy and was anhilated and expunged from the records.

 

As an aside, I was reading _Liber Chaotica_ and that most heretical tome made mention of "Gods of Order". Given the Morckocian origins of Warhammer would these be inverses of the dark pantheon?

 

[speculation]

 

[order God of War] -- Draws power from all those who strugle physically for the rightous reasons, is greatly concerned with Justice, champions would include exceptional Arbites, the arbites may gain "almost" mystical investigative powers to bring perps to trial. Opposed to Khorne

 

[order God of Duty] -- Draws power from selfless acts of service, His servents take joy in everyday acts for service is it's own reward. Phylisophically take pleasure in your good works, never just work for selfish pleasure. Opposed to Slaneesh.

 

[order God of Preservation] -- Draws power from acts of maitenance, and healing. Is greatly concerned with Hope and constructive growth. Opposed to Nurgle.

 

[order God of Clarity] -- Draws power from research and communication. Would be patron of Mechanicus Questors in their serch for STC data. Abhors unconrolled majicks, and secretive schemeing. Opposed to Tzeench.

 

It's probably not this simple, and I suspect that this info has already been spelled out in Warhammer Fantasy Roleplay. If it has perhaps an enlightend person could post a synopsus, summary, or some relavant links. [speculation]

[Puppet Master]

Hmm oddly it puts me in mind of a theroy flying around atm.

 

The theroy is that the 4 chaos gods are beings created in the waro to mirror the Ctan.

 

The idea that the old ones really made chaos on purpose to oppose the Ctan, who repersent ultimate order.

 

Whether this is true who knows.

[Eddie Orlock]

Nah, these would be warp entities, thus, no non-combative connection to the C'Tan. They come from a handful of one line mentions in _Liber Chaotica_ . The Tau have an ordered and regimented society, they may be patrons of the tau. The lack of Tau warp link and obvious "soul" (flare of an individual in the empryium) could be the entities shielding them from predatory forces untill it's time for the zenith.

[Freebooter]

My god... I love that idea.

 

The Emperor is finally overthrown and as humanity thinks all hope is lost the 4 Gods of Order rise to take the place of the emperor and opose the Chaos Gods.

It fits perfectly in making the imperium stronger, it adds a cool 'holy' element to it. I mean, who wouldn't want to take the physical embodiment of one of these Gods in their marine force? It is brilliant. Pure genius.

[Puppet Master]

Well there is also the old idea, that the emp will absorb the 4 gods of chaos, and they themselves will turn into there good aspects, thefore they are the gods of order, just aspects that are not shown often.

 

I mean khorne positive form is a god of honour, prtecting his tribe.

[buzz_navy]

what if the necrons when they "visited" mars with their two ships were actually trying to remotely prevent the AM from their high level secret studies of the void dragon?wouldnt that mean that the cult of the dragon in the AM are actually the researchers ? afterall it is proven that the AM who study things treat them with great reverence , i mean what if the AM was studing the void dragon in an attempt/hope to control it although on the flip side has anyone noticed that the "head" of certain battle titans resembles necron warriors heads? what if the mechanicus has been trying to build and ultimate necron body for the void dragon to control ? :devil: but also on the flip side if the mechanicus makes most everthing in the imperium tanks , prefab housing,weapons and what not they must manufacutre the c'tan swords that the calldus assasins us no ?!? i mean where do they get the material to make em ? wouldnt it make sense that they have a necron tomb located somewhere close by mars after all it would make sense since they keep alotta secret hush hush projects i.e. inquisition null ships , and if i remeber my fluff right the assasin houses are located around terra somewhere and think about this the inquistion's hq is in terra's system (large group of nosiy people right ! ) the grey knights (a chapter of space marines specificly for the combating of the demonic)is based out of titan also in terra's system not to mention that its the most heavly defended systems in the whole imperium, maby the emperor knew about it to ? of perhaps the inquistion know and the adeptus mechanicus know since they both have reps as one of the high lords and since they are the only ones who can sanction an assination and can control how the imperiums militant arms act , and have some sway over the space marine chapters :tu:

[Eddie Orlock]

Actually, the Order Gods may prove just as bad as the Chaos Gods. They are alien warp entities. using the order god of honour/justice [opposes Khorne] as an example: Are you at all familier with Judge Dread and the Dark Judges. As I understand it the dark judges got so obsessed with order that they tried and convicted the whole populace of their dimension, including themselves (they're undead, they raised them selves to continue their work...)

 

I think that man under the dominion of the warp is doomed, regardless of the nature of the entitity. In the same paragraphs the Liber Chaotica mentions the Order Gods, they also mention the various, and merciful gods of men, Sigmar included. Speculate then that not all indigenous cults supplanted by the imperium are evil-chaos worship, but potentially even benevolent. It's just that the Ordo Hereticus will not take that risk.

 

This view point requires a diminished view of the chaos gods as not masters of the whole of warp space, but just as major warp powers. This allows for a plethora of other entities/deities. The term "Realm of Chaos" denoteing all of warp space is a misnomer then. I have vague recolections of fluff sugesting that the Emperor intended for man to mature and take dominion over the warp by pyschically manifesting their own will as mature human gods, as the souls of the shamans who made the emperor did orriginally. The "Imperial Cult" then is almost as false a path as Chaos Worship, I think the "Machine Cult" May be closer, but man may not be ready for the true path yet...

[Aidoneus]

Guys, seriously. This is way off topic, and as been for a while. Please, before you post a reply to any particular post, think about whether the topic you're talking about fits with "The AM, Mars, the Void Dragon, and Necrons." All this Warp-entity-gods-of-order stuff is interesting, there's no doubt, but it has nothing whatsoever to do with my thread! Feel free to go start a thread of you own in the Chaos forum, I would gladly join in a discussion there, but it is simply not appropriate here. I'm amazed y'all haven't gotten a mod to shut this topic down yet! I'd rather avoid that fate, if you don't mind.

 

Buzz_Navy, thank you for being the only person still on-topic here. What you say is interesting. I'm not the term "control" was right though. If the Cult of the Dragon worship the Void Dragon as their Omnissah, I don't think they could expect to control it. However, it is possible that they are trying to make a body to house it, or just trying to wake it, in hopes that it would side with them when it wakes. If so, they're mistaken in their hopes, since a C'Tan would care nothing for them or their worship. The Deciever might play them for its own ends, but any other C'Tan would just devour them.

 

BTW, I don't think the AM manufactures C'Tan phase blades. I'm pretty sure those are xenos tech.

[Eddie Orlock]

Aidoneus: This was all on topic, at least in pre-text, as it had to do with the potential beliefs of the mechanicus. Relevance from the genaric sense of witch hunters and non-malign cults could describe what the cult mechanicus is. Since defining the cult of the machine has been a large part of this thread.

 

As the Warp is strongly influenced by coordinated groups of though, and the Mechanicus is a large, coordinated group, I'd speculate that even if the Omnimessiah wasn't originally a warp entity, their is a warp entity Omnimessiah now purly through organised worship. This Mechanicus warp-lord may even be an antithesis to the Void-Dragon.

 

As I figured we were discussing conspiracy theroys I thought I'd throw in a few more players.

 

Thus neatly mopping all this warpspawned insanity up and tieing it all together in one giant machine cult special.

[Severus6]

All right gents, lets keep it civil and within the borders of acceptance. Thank you.

 

Severus6

[TheDarkApostle]

My few cents:

 

The Metal on Ferrus Manus hands was/is most likely to be the living metal the Necrontyr forged their ships and the Ctan's bodies from. As also noted in Nightbringer I think where Uriel Ventris second in command (can't remember name) have his arm cut of by the Nightbringer and later when he have recived bionic replacements the entire bionic part is covered in a strange metal almost perfectly assembeling the original arm. At least it was something like that.

 

And also I though the Nightbringer was the most powerful? :blink:

 

As he actually was the one who technically ate his fellow Ctans.. :devil:

[The Count]

Wasn't the outsider supposed to have gone mad after consuming other C'tan? Also i think i have seen it said that the deceiver convinced the C'tan to go cannibal, but i think i have seen another reason somewhere but i cant quite remember it, but if so i think most C'tan ate another C'tan, perhaps not the deceiver though.

 

GW seems to be pretty contradictory in which C'tan is strongest, just it isn't the deceiver.

 

Also Ventris's second in commands new arm repairs itself and is taken by an IW lord (dead sky, Black sun).

 

Could the construct ferrus destroyed be some kind of tomb guardian, thus it was awake, but if so why was it there?

[alexious]

In the Horus Heresy Volume IV, Fulgrim beheads Ferrus Manus. Guess he isnt hiding out on Mars after all.

[Eddie Orlock]

This is the problem with revelations, they kill the blessed mysteries.

[Golancers49]

I think the most important question is ... is GW going to go anywhere with this? Dont get me wrong I love 40k Speculations (this one and Cypher 'killing' the emperor with the lions sword to free his spirt) are my favorite.. but usually so much time and thought gets put into it, and like you think.. damn this could be sweet.. thats when you realize that GW isnt going anywhere with this cuz damn this is sweet is better then wow that could have been cool... but not to be a downer....

 

I could see it shaking down this way after medusa and this is what makes me think it could happen

 

Dragon Starting to Awaken

Tau get some warp or some way of travling far like get some type of web portals of there own.

 

Some people say that Tau were created by the old ones to beat the Necron on there own turf (via not warp sensitive)... So I say if the Tau are able to travel in something similar to the warp if not the warp, i would expect that the Ctan call the raise of the Tau and the dragon awakens.. thats if you belive that the Tau were created to combat the Ctan and not be corrupted by the warp...

 

I hope that some of this makes a little sense.. im a bit rusty on my 40k Conspericy Theory (and my spelling!)

 

- Warner