Legion Rising

[Subtle Discord]

I'm lucky enough to have a ForgeWorld Black Legion Dreadnaught, with magnetized arms for weapon swapping. It was actually inspiration for how I wanted other armour in the army to look, so it's totally stock. Since that base is covered for now (not to say I won't add more Dreads' in the future) I'm going to first take this technique to a Defiler kit. I have two un-assembled kits here that will go towards making one 'heavy' Black Legion Defiler in future. Think: 6 'small' legs with the front ones being converted into 'small snippers'. Moving the heavy flamer to the 'face' somehow, so it can spit fire. And using the left over 'large' legs to build a large 'preying mantis-like' arm to mount where the flamer currently is. Topped with extra armour plates, spikes, and 'banding'. But I dare not start it now, or as usual, it'll be another project on-the-go.

All of my current build time is being put in to the Extra Armour Predator that will be in the core army. Anyone for some teaser photos?

http://i1080.photobucket.com/albums/j332/SubtleDiscord/WIP%20Thread%20Photos/Legion_Predator_04.jpghttp://i1080.photobucket.com/albums/j332/SubtleDiscord/WIP%20Thread%20Photos/Legion_Predator_05.jpg

Naturally, it would be no problem to do this kind of detailing to any plastic kit (Or metal and pewter, with other adhesives) once you have some accurate measurements.

I'm starting to put two articles together talking more about how to work with plastic. First will be on Deconstruction and how to break things down in to simpler parts so you can create a good plan. Then I'll move to Fabrication for taking that plan and making it real. These will be in-depth however, so they'll take some time to finish.

Edited August 26, 2014 by Subtle Discord

[DarkVen]

Sorry if I've missed, but how much time did you spent on this extra armor? (from start to its finel look)

[Biohazard]

The Predator looks awesome and Im really excited to see your Defiler idea realised. Cannot wait.

[Midnightmare]

Seriously awe inspiring stuff you have going on with the rhino chassis, attention to detail is epic! Nice black/gold combo yo have going on too :lol:

[alejandrinus]

Fantastic plasticard job Subtle Discord , the effort put in this really make the difference with the stock models and the final result is awesome. Also the gold recipe is very usefull and really waiting to read your article about plasticard working.

[teku]

Awesome! Just awesome! Why you make me wanna do this also!?

can we use the template you posted also or?

[Subtle Discord]

Just a quick reply to answer some questions. First, yes, anything seen in my posts or blog are put out there to inspire and be used. If you see something you like, please run with the idea, and I'd love to see the results. If you would like to show some appreciation, just give a little credit to where you got your inspiration.

As for the question of time spent, it's hard to say exactly. I tend to do steps in batches, and can let things sit half-finished while I do other things. I'll start with armour plates and banding, then move on to gap filling with greenstuff/milliput, then get to adding rivets, and finally all of the finish up details like drilling holes and weathering. But to give at least a vague idea: For something 'simple' like a Rhino; 1-to-2 evenings for banding, 1 evening for gap filling and some rivets, 1 evening to finish rivets and start details, and 1 final evening to do all-round clean-up. An 'evening' is about 2-to-4 hours of work time. Naturally, nothing is set in stone and many times some things will take longer or shorter. For something 'complex' like a Predator, I'd estimate maybe double the time, due to all of the 'extra bits' that have to be done.

Creating a design also takes considerable time if it's complex. (And if it's complex it's going to take extra time to build.) But, creating a good plan saves time in the long run in several ways; 1) Once you have the angles and measurements, making a second design from the first is much faster. 2) A good plan will help avoid mistakes that will force you to re-do steps. If your plans are solid, you can cut them out without any worry of the fit. 3) If you plan correctly, you can minimize the amount of clean-up and gap filling you need to do, saving tons of time. The down side is sometimes you want a certain effect that guarantees it will take longer.

An example of this; My first armoured Predator required a plan from scratch, and I was still learning my plastic working techniques. I'm not sure how many hours it took, but the second armoured Predator had its design and build time cut in half, at the very least. Even with the major changes I made to the sponson armour, since I had a base plan, a lot of the work was already done. And, when I started building it I was much more confident working with plastic, so that was much faster as well.

Ok, I'll shut up now.

Edited August 26, 2014 by Subtle Discord

[Jofus]

If you have some CAD files of you Rhino/Predator barding and extra armor, do you mind sharing them? I like how they turned out and would not mind trying that out myself for Iron Warriors.

[Subtle Discord]

Another quick update to show the wash layering at work.

http://i1080.photobucket.com/albums/j332/SubtleDiscord/WIP%20Thread%20Photos/Legion_Rhino_05.jpg
She's not very pretty yet, but soon I'll start the clean up and it'll start to come together.

http://i1080.photobucket.com/albums/j332/SubtleDiscord/WIP%20Thread%20Photos/Legion_Rhino_06.jpg
The gold has been done exactly as I've shown in this thread, and I've given all the silver two layers of 'dark black' wash, with the exhaust stacks getting some extra.

I do most washes the same way. A thin first layer to even out the surface, and that adds only a slight shading effect. The following second layer is more selective and gives it the real depth. You can place little blobs/streaks of wash in logical places (around rivets, in corners, etc.) and then smooth out the edges with a second clean damp brush. When working with washes, or blending in general, always have a clean damp brush handy (mine is usually clamped in my teeth) to clean up edges or mistakes. Two layers is usually enough, but it all depends on the effect that you want to achieve, and how patient you are.

Another trick is to give the surface a wash of clean water. You don't want it sopping wet, just damp, but you can play with it. More moisture = More wash 'bleeding'. Do the same thing, place little blobs/streaks of wash in logical places and then smooth out the edges with a second clean damp brush. But, the damp base will help smooth out the effect, and make it spread more. This is a great trick if you the want a more subtle effect, or to have a wash go smoothly over a large area.

http://i1080.photobucket.com/albums/j332/SubtleDiscord/WIP%20Thread%20Photos/Legion_Rhino_07.jpg
I'm very happy with the 'exhaust soot' and 'shadowing' effect that you can get by layering some Black wash in select places.

A few layers of black wash will make great scorch/shadow/soot effect on any colour. It can take several layers to build up, but it's hard to argue with the effect. A hair dryer is always your friend to speed up wash layers, but if you're doing assembly line painting, it's usually dry (or close to) when you get back to the first model in the line.

Never be afraid to poke, stab, and drag wash pigment where you want it to go. You have time to work if you keep it moving, and you can remove it with a clean brush at any time if the edges are still wet, if you not happy with how it's going. I will add too much wash all the time, and need to 'pull off' extra wash to get the right amount. More is not always better, and sometimes 3-to-4 thinner layers will be better than 2-to-3 thick layers.

Edited August 26, 2014 by Subtle Discord

[Pulse]

Looking stunning even if it is a little bit messy, can't wait to see it all cleaned up!!

[Subtle Discord]

As for CAD files; I'll clean up my design files (I tend to keep a pallet of bits and pieces strewn about my plans) and turn them in to one Rhino per file. Once I get them cleaned up I'll put them in my files section in DWG format. Note, until further notice, these will have no instructions or explanations of how it's assembled. It's usually rather obvious, but some things can be a bit obscure.

I'll make an update here or in my blog when they're ready. Perhaps I'll combine them in my next blog article about Deconstruction. It will be talking about how to make plans like these, so it'll make sense.

Edited August 26, 2014 by Subtle Discord

[Grimdarkness]

O.K that is just stunning awe inspiring and a host of other things that I won't get into.

 

 

Well done.

[subtlebrush]

Looking amazing!

Cannot wait for your templates.

 

+++Mr.M+++

[shabbadoo]

This sort of thing is why I keep saying GW needs to do Chaos versions of the main Space Marine vehicles in plastic. Likely won't ever happen, but you never know. In the mean time, we all get to do it ourselves, and you've done nice job of it to be sure. :rolleyes:

[teku]

Wow looks awesome! Can't wait to see the templates!! ^.^

keep up the good work!

[Subtle Discord]

Agreed, I've always been underwhelmed with the 'just add spikes' solution GW falls back on for Chaos many times. I don't hate spikes, don't get me wrong, (Just wait until you see some of the things I do with spikes) but I think details like this go a lot further to give a Chaos look/feel to the model.

Every other army gets, for the most part, completely unique vehicle kits. Chaos gets a few unique things (Read: Defiler), but would it be so hard to make some 'chaos banding' sprews (could even add other general utility bits) that would let people cut-to-length some details that they could add. This idea could be taken further with each race getting a sprew or two that could be used to freshen up an older vehicle design.

I know they're just 35pt Rhinos, but I'll be fielding several of them, so I'm willing to put the effort in. I have the same attitude with every miniature/model in my army. They are unique, detailed, and expensive little pieces of plastic/pewter/resin, I want to do each one with the effort they deserve.

Edited August 26, 2014 by Subtle Discord

[Subtle Discord]

I just wanted to add something that I keep forgetting. I brought it up another thread so I figured it would be good to mention here.

 

For painting in general and especially with washes, I use a product called Flow Aid, made by the company Liquitex. It helps paint go on smoother, blend easier, and resist 'ringing' when it dries. You can avoid 'ringing' by working with thinner layers, but Flow Aid helps considerably.

 

Mixed 20-to-1 with water (1 part Flow Aid, 20 parts Water - and many times I use it mixed even thinner), you then add the mix to paints or use it to thin paints on the pallet. All of my paint has at least 3-or-4 drop of this magic additive in the bottle, and I keep a dropper filled with it on my paint table to add to the pallet. Just mix up a batch of this in a clean bottle, and always use a clean brush or dropper to take from the bottle and add to paint. You might want to mix two bottles, one for colours, one for metallics. It's very easy to contaminate this mix with silver flecks.

 

http://i1080.photobucket.com/albums/j332/SubtleDiscord/WIP%20Thread%20Photos/Wash_Closeup_01.jpg

Flow Aid + Gravity = Super easy shadows.

 

Edit: Added a photo to give an example of how Flow Aid helps. These 'wheels' have been given just two heavy coats of 'dark black' wash, and I left the Rhino upside-down so the wash would collect on the 'top', simulating shadow. There's a lot of light in this photo, to show detail, but under normal light the effect is even more pleasing. Especially considering how easy it was.

Edited November 18, 2011 by Subtle Discord

[Lysandestolpe]

This is :cussing off the hook!

 

Great Work man, keep it up! :o

[Subtle Discord]

I've watched people agonize over trying to make every brush stroke go exactly where it should. Slowing them to a crawl, each detail needing to be painted as close as they can manage through the entire process. Don't get me wrong, brush control is a good thing and will save you time, but take the time to do it when it matters. I won't pretend to be a fast painter, I'm not. But, I don't waste time if I can help it.


http://i1080.photobucket.com/albums/j332/SubtleDiscord/WIP%20Thread%20Photos/Legion_Rhino_08.jpg
I would have lost my mind is I had worried about brush control on the Gold and Silver. 'Easy' colours like Black will fix everything.

That's why I break my steps into messy and clean. If you don't worry as much during messy steps and just get them done, you save so much time. Then you do it right, and take your time on the cleanup. After making a mess and taking time to build up blending effects, I love the cleanup step. Even without the highlights the miniature comes to life and is practically table ready.


http://i1080.photobucket.com/albums/j332/SubtleDiscord/WIP%20Thread%20Photos/Legion_Rhino_09.jpg
I was nervous that the weathering damage I did to the plastic was a bit too aggressive, but after paint I think it's just right.

http://i1080.photobucket.com/albums/j332/SubtleDiscord/WIP%20Thread%20Photos/Legion_Rhino_10.jpg
Just because the metal is 99% done doesn't mean I can't/won't go back to tweak a bit, but the worst of the mess is behind me.

I'll be working the Predator up to this level before I start on highlighting. I'm still at the boring step of building up the Gold base, so it has a ways to go yet, but Rhino is very inspiring. I want this entire block to be at roughly the same point before moving forward, so I have no reasons to get distracted from highlights.

Next up... some teaser shots of the Predator looking Good, Bad, and Ugly. Not necessarily in that order.

Edited August 26, 2014 by Subtle Discord

[NemFX]

So what will they have for air support? Raptors are obvious choices, but you said it was Apocalypse Now themed.. Very curious to see what the Fast Attack choices will be, and how they'll be thematically related.

[daemonclaw]

a fantastic idea and perfectly executed

the paintwork is spot on and loving the back of that rhino

[subtlebrush]

Looking amazing.

Eagerly anticipating more from you!

 

+++Mr.M+++

[vharing]

That is simply amazing. Is most of the banding two separate layers glowed together? And what thickness plasticard is it that you are you using?

[DarkVen]

Just watched today 'Apocalypse Now'... how about Hell Talon/Blade or 2 for the 1st-of-the-9th?..

 

Well, I wish, I could paint my vehicles that easy :cuss conversion and paint job are looking nice.

But what about infantry?

[Subtle Discord]

Yes, if it looks like it's layered, it's layered. It's all two 0.4mm layers, with 0.75mm rivets.

As for the actual Air support for this force, at least two Hell Talons or Hell Blades are in order. I need to be able to call in Napalm 'Daemon Fire' bombing runs, after all. I'm still considering what I'll use for V.T.L. vehicles. I want at least a few 'helicopters'. Drop-pods are also not out of the picture, but we'll see. They'll all be more future projects, however. Odds are they'll be completely scratch built, which will take more time. Since they won't see the field nearly as often, I can't spare the time until the main core force it done. Air support is cool, but the ground-pounders take the actual beaches. For now 'Apocalypse Now' is just a loose inspiration.

Many of my rank-and-file infantry are already 80% painted, from before I starting my blog and this thread. Most just need highlights for the most part. I'm trying to catch the vehicles of this block up to the troops, before I get on to highlighting. Once I get the Predator caught up, you'll get a closer look at the squad that will be riding in the Rhino.

Edited August 26, 2014 by Subtle Discord