Subtle Discord Posted February 15, 2012 Author Share Posted February 15, 2012 Big update incoming... After getting my new found addiction to resin casting to calm down, I've been bouncing between several projects. I'm keeping all of my temptations to be distracted focused on the current 'center' of the army. As long as it's part of the first 2000-3000pts, I'm not going to force myself to ignore good ideas. That said, I've finally got back to painting the 'first block' of the army for this thread, and they should be ready to be set aside soon. http://i1080.photobucket.com/albums/j332/SubtleDiscord/WIP%20Thread%20Photos/Legion_Rhino_11.jpg The highlights on the Rhino are still messy, but I'm going to finish highlighting the Predator (already in progress) so I can clean them up together. http://i1080.photobucket.com/albums/j332/SubtleDiscord/WIP%20Thread%20Photos/Legion_Rhino_12.jpg Half of the Marines for the squad are highlighted, and the rest are on the way. After doing a few models with my new Blue-Grey highlights, I found the last pure Space Wolves Grey step was just a little bit too bright. I've since added a very small bit of Shadow Grey to the bottle, and toned it down ever-so-slightly. Since then I've been really happy with how it's looking. The highlights are standing out nicely at a distance, but don't overwhelm the Black, turning it Grey. My plan going forward is to get the majority of the army to this point before I start doing weathering. I want the weathering effects to be consistent, so I think doing them together will help with that. Also, it should give me enough practice to really establish just how I want to do the paint chipping effect. I've practiced several ideas, and will be using a sponging technique, but I'll need to do it a lot more to refine my technique and how I will do it to completion. Finally, I want to do weathering after I add icons, and I don't have the decals yet. One of the ideas I couldn't help get distracted by was Ammo Drums and Weapon Clips. One of my pet-peeves about the Chaos miniatures is how much 'belt ammunition' is used. I understand it's supposed to give a 'lower technology' feel to the weapons, but I always felt it's too 'low tech' for the year 30,000. So I've been on an Ammo Drum and Weapon Clip building spree... http://i1080.photobucket.com/albums/j332/SubtleDiscord/WIP%20Thread%20Photos/Ammo_Drums_01.jpg Building these one-by-one from scratch for each miniature would give me a stroke, but since I can cast them now, it's not nearly as daunting. Drums for Rhino Bolters? Check. Clips and Drums for Troop Bolters? Check. Drums for Heavy Bolters? In progress. I've also got a vehicle Combi-Melta in the works, but I'm not happy with it yet. I should have pictures of that in my next update or soon after. I had planned on doing a Combat (Assault) squad with Rhino, a Dreadnaught, and a squad of Obliterators for my next block to focus on in this thread. Well... after having a small accident with one of the Obliterators, and a change of heart with the Dreadnaught, they are going to be put on hold while I do repairs and rebuild. While that's being done, I'm going to pull a D 01RTB01 1 Back to top Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ch@oZ Posted February 16, 2012 Share Posted February 16, 2012 love the ammo drums and the armor decoration on tanks. Hope You don't mind me stealing some of those ideas for my wolves. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
firestorm40k Posted February 19, 2012 Share Posted February 19, 2012 http://i1080.photobucket.com/albums/j332/SubtleDiscord/WIP%20Thread%20Photos/Legion_Predator_11.jpg Now THAT is Extra Armour! :angry: :( Outstanding work, I think this has got to be the best Black Legion army I've ever seen, to me it'll be the yard stick by which I'll look at all other Black Legion armies. Redrandy93 1 Back to top Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
S'jet Posted February 19, 2012 Share Posted February 19, 2012 Glad i clicked this blog. Read the whole thing. The plasticard work is awesome. Once you start working with it on this scale, i guess the possibilities are endless. I'm really tempted to give it a try! Really like the black also. Keep it coming, lovin' it all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zhoolda Posted February 19, 2012 Share Posted February 19, 2012 Love your way of using washes! Iv started using them myself just the last year or so and now I use them on almost everything. But I se myself almost only using Devlan Mud and Black Wash.... Any suggestions on other washes you think I should try out? I love mixing different colours but I rarely mix washes... I guess I just never thought about it untill now :P Thank you for all the inspiration! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Subtle Discord Posted February 22, 2012 Author Share Posted February 22, 2012 Just a quick reply to blather a bit and answer a few things... As always, thanks all for the positive feedback, I'm glad my work is hitting a good chord with people. Everything is presented not only to showcase what I'm up to, but also to inspire and motivate. Beyond completely copying specific designs to mass produce without consent, please feel free to take anything you see here and run with it. I've been enthralled with Chaos in general for many years, and I told myself that if I was going to resurrect my Black Legion I wanted to make the force much more personal and unique. I want there to be no way to mistake this army for anything but pure Black Legion Chaos, even from across a room. It seems I'm on the right track, and I plan to keep the theme strong with future units that follow specific Gods. Plans and some building are already done for blocks devoted to Khorne ('Zerkers on foot, and on Bikes), and Nurgle (Plague Marines, and a very Possessed Predator), and someday soon they'll start seeing the light again. I've mentioned that I've been mixing my own washes (glazes) for years. I swore by them then, and swear by them now. They are not a magic bullet that stand on their own, in my opinion. They seem like a one-trick-pony, but if you use them more like paint and less like a 'selective dip', they start to really shine. Like all painting, it's all about layering - layering gives you control. When you combine them with a few practiced methods (paint layering and/or blending, and good brush technique) it becomes a real confidence builder. Certain more advanced effects and looks like skin, bone, and rich golds, suddenly don't seem so daunting. When it comes to mixing washes, it really depends what you're after - a simple alteration (darker or lighter) of an existing colour, or a hand mixed wash for a specific task. My home-brew metallic washes are a good example of a simple darkening of Badab and Sepia. I want the effect of these washes to be more pronounced than the base colour, so I deepen them modestly. I then use some simple wet brush blending to control how/where the washes will sit. Washes provide lots of very forgiving opportunity for control, if you're willing to push, pull, dab, scrape, and taper/blend. Take the time to do a few layers instead of slopping it on, and the results speak for themselves. My soon-to-be-concocted headlight/searchlight wash is going to be a good example of a true custom mix. Following with the 'cold colour' theme of the army, I want all lights on vehicles to have a glassy-blue colour. I want a wash that can go over a very pale base, and only leave a trace of pale blue shadow. Experiments with thinned down Asurmen Blue were too blue, and not pale enough for me. I'll be playing around with mixing a small amount of Spacewolves Gray and/or Shadow Grey with Glaze Compound. The result should be a 'chalky' wash colour that will blend better with the pale base, and hopefully give a more subtle blue shadow for lenses. Think about your base colour, and what you want from your wash. Is it helping to unify blending or just adding some richness to a bright colour? - Use a pure colour that matches the base colour, and apply it very thin and/or watered down. Is it being used to add stronger shadowing and depth? - Use the base colour mixed with some Brown or Black wash, and apply it very selectively to shadowed placed, blending the edges. Want to add scorching, or soot? - Straight black wash is your friend, and remember to manipulate it in layers, don't slop it on. Looking for some alien skin, a good mutation colour, or daemon flesh? - Mix things up and put weird combinations together; Purple wash over Yellow base, bright Blue wash dappled over a Pink, Green wash streaked over pale Blue, etc.. Always remember a little trial-and-error is a good thing. Take some time to test and practice a few things on a spare miniature or a bit of sprew, and see what you can come up with. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zhoolda Posted February 22, 2012 Share Posted February 22, 2012 Just a quick reply to blather a bit and answer a few things... As always, thanks all for the positive feedback, I'm glad my work is hitting a good chord with people. Everything is presented not only to showcase what I'm up to, but also to inspire and motivate. Beyond completely copying specific designs to mass produce without consent, please feel free to take anything you see here and run with it. I've been enthralled with Chaos in general for many years, and I told myself that if I was going to resurrect my Black Legion I wanted to make the force much more personal and unique. I want there to be no way to mistake this army for anything but pure Black Legion Chaos, even from across a room. It seems I'm on the right track, and I plan to keep the theme strong with future units that follow specific Gods. Plans and some building are already done for blocks devoted to Khorne ('Zerkers on foot, and on Bikes), and Nurgle (Plague Marines, and a very Possessed Predator), and someday soon they'll start seeing the light again. I've mentioned that I've been mixing my own washes (glazes) for years. I swore by them then, and swear by them now. They are not a magic bullet that stand on their own, in my opinion. They seem like a one-trick-pony, but if you use them more like paint and less like a 'selective dip', they start to really shine. Like all painting, it's all about layering - layering gives you control. When you combine them with a few practiced methods (paint layering and/or blending, and good brush technique) it becomes a real confidence builder. Certain more advanced effects and looks like skin, bone, and rich golds, suddenly don't seem so daunting. When it comes to mixing washes, it really depends what you're after - a simple alteration (darker or lighter) of an existing colour, or a hand mixed wash for a specific task. My home-brew metallic washes are a good example of a simple darkening of Badab and Sepia. I want the effect of these washes to be more pronounced than the base colour, so I deepen them modestly. I then use some simple wet brush blending to control how/where the washes will sit. Washes provide lots of very forgiving opportunity for control, if you're willing to push, pull, dab, scrape, and taper/blend. Take the time to do a few layers instead of slopping it on, and the results speak for themselves. My soon-to-be-concocted headlight/searchlight wash is going to be a good example of a true custom mix. Following with the 'cold colour' theme of the army, I want all lights on vehicles to have a glassy-blue colour. I want a wash that can go over a very pale base, and only leave a trace of pale blue shadow. Experiments with thinned down Asurmen Blue were too blue, and not pale enough for me. I'll be playing around with mixing a small amount of Spacewolves Gray and/or Shadow Grey with Glaze Compound. The result should be a 'chalky' wash colour that will blend better with the pale base, and hopefully give a more subtle blue shadow for lenses. Think about your base colour, and what you want from your wash. Is it helping to unify blending or just adding some richness to a bright colour? - Use a pure colour that matches the base colour, and apply it very thin and/or watered down. Is it being used to add stronger shadowing and depth? - Use the base colour mixed with some Brown or Black wash, and apply it very selectively to shadowed placed, blending the edges. Want to add scorching, or soot? - Straight black wash is your friend, and remember to manipulate it in layers, don't slop it on. Looking for some alien skin, a good mutation colour, or daemon flesh? - Mix things up and put weird combinations together; Purple wash over Yellow base, bright Blue wash dappled over a Pink, Green wash streaked over pale Blue, etc.. Always remember a little trial-and-error is a good thing. Take some time to test and practice a few things on a spare miniature or a bit of sprew, and see what you can come up with. Thank you for this! Ben trying out some of your stuff on two of my tanks tonight and I'll tell you when they are ready! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Draakur Posted February 23, 2012 Share Posted February 23, 2012 You are a BEAST and your marines are goddamn sexy. Killer thread here, another follower of the dark gods inspired :( Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Retributis Posted February 23, 2012 Share Posted February 23, 2012 Please tell me you are going to sell casts of those weapon clips somehow. They look great! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimmimellows Posted February 23, 2012 Share Posted February 23, 2012 Well, thats all looking fantastic as is the norm. The pred is really really nice. I like the wide bevel on the green stuff joint, it fits nicely and looks much more aesthtic than a crisp 90 degree edge. Particularly like the ammo clips, i hate ammo belts for the same reason as you do. They look like they were quite fiddly so bravo for that. Prince jump pack is also coming along nicely, the tubes should look sweet. Im debating how much trim i could get away with on my Diemos rhino without overpowering the FW kit, i feel like i need more than just some snazzy doors! Anyway, i've sent you a somewhat belated PM, Jim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Subtle Discord Posted March 1, 2012 Author Share Posted March 1, 2012 It's been awhile since my last post, so I figured I would do a quick update. I haven't had much time to sit and build/paint, but I've made good progress with what time I've had. The 'first block' Chaos Marines and their Rhino have their highlights complete and cleaned up, and I'm working on the Predator. I'll be posting some photos very soon, after a few touch-ups and finishing up all the little details. In an effort to start trying to resin cast my Extra Armour and Trim designs I'll need to do some testing to see how much resin shrinkage will come into play. It may only be 1-to-2%, but over the length of a vehicle that adds up to 1-to-2mm. Not good if you're trying to get something as 'form fitting' as my designs are. So I'm going to to start with something simpler, that might just make the Loyalist Marine players happy... http://i1080.photobucket.com/albums/j332/SubtleDiscord/WIP%20Thread%20Photos/Loylist_Plans_01.jpg Clean lines and a few less rivets will make this first test design much more straight forward to produce for initial testing. I'll be doing rounded rivets on this design, to have it blend better with GW MkII Rhino kit. They'll be a bit more work, but I'll be saving tons of time not needing to cut all of the fiddly points and arrows that a Chaos plan entails. The plan is to cast these parts flat, so I can produce them with a simple one-sided mould. I think my plan for pouring and pressurizing them should work, but time will tell. I always get a little nervous when I start trying something new. *Fingers crossed* I should have an update with my results relatively soon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Subtle Discord Posted March 4, 2012 Author Share Posted March 4, 2012 (edited) Distraction time... Now in 3D!! For some reason, I've been intimidated about sitting down and learning how to do 3D modeling/CAD. I've grown so comfortable working with 2D CAD that the idea of dealing with the learning curve of 3D modeling software seemed too daunting. Well, after seeing some things people have been doing during some research, I figured it was time for me to give it a try. I have been trying to build a vehicle mounted Combi-Melta using my current method, and while it is do'able, it's starting to reach the size that it's getting very tricky. There's just not much room for error when you're down to fractions of a millimeter, and I haven't been completely happy with my results. (I'm picky, what can I say?) I figured this was a good item to try modelling in 3D. Now, I know my way around traditional CAD software, so it turned out the learning curve wasn't nearly as harsh as I was expecting. This is what I've come up with so far... http://i1080.photobucket.com/albums/j332/SubtleDiscord/WIP%20Thread%20Photos/Combi-Melta_01.jpg Heretical Design: Xana II - Combi-Weapon (Design in progress) So far it's just a Combi-Bolter, since it's easy to mirror an object. Once I get the pintle-mount done I'm going to make a modular Meltagun that can replace one of the Bolters. My only reservation at this point is that I think I made some of the details (Read: the arrows) a bit too thin. They look sharp here, but after looking at some plastic, and testing with my caliper, I think I'm going to need to make them a bit thicker. Other than that, I'm very happy with the progress so far. Edited March 4, 2012 by Subtle Discord Redrandy93 1 Back to top Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Midnightmare Posted March 4, 2012 Share Posted March 4, 2012 Time and effort really shows, I aplaud you for not only your skills but also for sharing. Outstanding work! How Chaos should look :ph34r: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Melekharn Posted March 4, 2012 Share Posted March 4, 2012 (edited) I keep throwing money at the screen and nothing happens! Love the way your Extra Armour looks, definately giving FW a run for their money. And you havoc launcher just screams Chaos! Are you looking to have your 3D models printed, and then mould them? or just having fun with 3D imaging? *Goes back to throwing money at the screen* Edited March 4, 2012 by Melekharn Imren 1 Back to top Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Subtle Discord Posted March 6, 2012 Author Share Posted March 6, 2012 Just a really quick update before shuffling off to bed... http://i1080.photobucket.com/albums/j332/SubtleDiscord/WIP%20Thread%20Photos/Combi-Melta_02.jpg Heretical Design: Xana II - Combi-Weapon (Design in progress) My hope is to have this, and future 3D models (I'm having too much fun, there will be many more), turned into prototypes that I can mould and cast. Just how these will find their way from the warp and into reality is still being researched. This will be, by far, the most ambitiously detailed item I've considered making to date. But, if I pull it off, it will a proof-of-concept for all future plans. I figure if I can do this, than I can do almost anything. It will just be a matter of scope and scale. Skilled though I may be, unfortunately I'm just one person, and there are only so many hours in a day. I'm not totally sure where this is all going, but I can say that I'm starting to look into how I can get some of my creations available for purchase. There's a lot of work and many considerations that I'll need to make before it happens, but hopefully I can start doing at least some limited offerings sooner-rather-than-later. A lot of this is new to me, and I don't want to over extend myself, as it were. Still so much to learn and sort out. Stay tuned and watch my decent into madness, won't you? ^_^ Imren 1 Back to top Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grimdarkness Posted March 6, 2012 Share Posted March 6, 2012 Your 3d models look good. Best of luck in the casting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chaplain-Skylax Posted March 7, 2012 Share Posted March 7, 2012 Damn man, these are beautiful it makes me proud to see an awesome chaos army :nuke: Keep up the good work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimmimellows Posted March 7, 2012 Share Posted March 7, 2012 Hi there, Sorry, i meant to comment on this a bit sooner. Your 3D models are looking very nice it must be helping to visualise how to break flat parts down more easily........not that you seemed to struggle before. Lovely combibolter concept. Hope you get to the bottom of your shrinkage issues, i guess once you figure out the percentage you can upscale any drawings etc to take it into account. I just grabbed our caster as i walked past and asked him about the new resins i mentioned in the PM. Apparently it is not the Forgeworld stuff however, he has used 2 new resins which may be useful for you to investigate in small batches. Both are 2 part liquids that you mix 50/50 to start the catalyst reaction. Both can also be pigmented and painted. Not sure about shrinkage but he seemed to think they didnt shrink by much. I said you had a pressure caster and he thinks you'll have very few bubbles etc using either of these 2 types........anyway, hope that helps a bit. They are as follows - Rencast FC52 and Smooth-On task 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Subtle Discord Posted March 24, 2012 Author Share Posted March 24, 2012 The daemon is in the details. It always seems easier to get things started, even closed to finished, than to get them actually complete. Take my new fascination with 3D modeling for example. To my surprise, it was actually much easier to get the basic build done for the Combi-Melta I'm working on. It took shape quickly, but then all of the detailing needed to be done. That's when the learning curve really kicked in, and things slowed down, but I think the result was worth it... http://i1080.photobucket.com/albums/j332/SubtleDiscord/WIP%20Thread%20Photos/Combi-Melta_03.jpg Heretical Pattern: Xana II - Combi-Bolter & Combi-Melta. Once I got started on the smaller details and curved surfaces I quickly learned the limitations of SketchUp. It's designed as a architectural 3D modeling program, which is a mixed blessing. On one hand, it's great for making sharp lines and edges - excellent for building mechanical items to fit in with a Powered Armour army. On the other hand, it's not intended for making objects as small as this, so it tends to do some very weird things to curved surfaces and small details that have too much resolution. I've learned that working on items scaled up, and then shrinking them down, solves most problems. Certain objects require some extra effort, but I'm starting to figure it out. http://i1080.photobucket.com/albums/j332/SubtleDiscord/WIP%20Thread%20Photos/Combi-Melta_04.jpg After being forced to rebuilding certain parts, making the little details like the lenses and Melta tank started to come together. Once I got done with the Combi-Melta, I started to look at the Bolter clips/drums I made, and figured they were worthy of a 3D upgrade. I'm going to do several more, but this is what I've come up with so far... http://i1080.photobucket.com/albums/j332/SubtleDiscord/WIP%20Thread%20Photos/Ammo_Drums_02.jpg There's just some details that I would struggle with trying to scratch build this small. Modeling them with SketchUp makes it so much easier. I also finished the highlights for the first block of the army. Just like the 3D modeling, it's straightforward enough to get the foundation done, but all the little details start to drag after awhile. That said, they're coming along well, and will be done very soon. (Soon being a relative term - Depending on how distracted I get by other things) http://i1080.photobucket.com/albums/j332/SubtleDiscord/WIP%20Thread%20Photos/Block_One_02.jpg The highlights are so small, it really is amazing how much impact they add to the final look of the miniatures. http://i1080.photobucket.com/albums/j332/SubtleDiscord/WIP%20Thread%20Photos/Legion_Armour_01.jpg I changed the method I was doing for the searchlights and headlights. As mentioned earlier, I ended up mixing a custom wash for them. Lots of Acrylic Thinner + Shadow Grey + Blue Ink = Chalky Pale Blue Wash. That's just what I was looking for. I apply it very sparingly over an Astronomican Grey base, and then add a very thin outline of Badab Black Wash to the edges to add more depth. It even looks good on the tiny headlights, so I'm happy. I had planned on holding off on doing weathering until I had more of the main army done, and then do them all at once. But, I'm so pleased with the progress on Rhino and Predator that I think I'm going to move forward with them, and see what they look like with my chosen weathering technique. It's one thing to see a paint test on a test miniature or a piece of old sprew. But you don't know what it's really going to look like until it's part of the greater whole. At the very least, I'm going to use the Rhino as a lab-rat and see what happens. I'll post an update with my experiments in the next few days. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lokkorex Posted March 25, 2012 Share Posted March 25, 2012 plain awesome tis thread is! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nicorex Posted March 25, 2012 Share Posted March 25, 2012 Absolutly amazing work. I cant wait to see what you do next. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A D-B Posted March 25, 2012 Share Posted March 25, 2012 Jesus, this is awesome work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Nephilim Posted March 28, 2012 Share Posted March 28, 2012 I've been lurking for quite a while. And I got to say, damn son... This was worth commenting on. With your chaos armor upgrades, you ever planning on doing a CAD for that? Maybe even do some Cult designs? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wolf Priest Haelaeif Posted March 28, 2012 Share Posted March 28, 2012 Awesome army. While I really like converting, I'd never have the nerve to put so much effort into my models. Looking forward to see more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Subtle Discord Posted March 28, 2012 Author Share Posted March 28, 2012 Thanks, as always, for the positive feedback. Just quick update to show off the Rhino and blather a bit. To answer Nephilim, everything I've designed so far already is in CAD, but most of it is 2D. I found it's not that hard to import the files, fix the scale, and extrude (add thickness, as it were) the shapes. In some cases I would consider doing it from scratch. It would give the opportunity to refine the design further and make them even better. For now, I think most of the things I'm doing with 3D models is for the sake of scale. Scratch building sidearms and smaller vehicle mount weapons are just too 'fiddly'. They are also smaller and easier (read: cheaper) to make real once I decide to take the plunge and get them prototyped. But for now, I still have several things perfect in the casting process, then I'll think hard on how I plan on making actual 'production' prototypes. Large things my Extra Armour plates might be easier to do just how I've been doing them. If by Cults you mean the other gods, well, I will always have a bias for doing pure Chaos Undivided - slanted towards Black Legion. However I do have plans for doing blocks devoted to each of the Gods. But even these units will have a Black Legion undertone. I would need to have a very compelling reason or offer to consider any other major work outside of that scope. But you never know. I may dabble with another army in the future, (Traitor Guardsmen come to mind) but my Legion will always be my favorite. Still so many Chaos ideas to build. Speaking of ideas... http://i1080.photobucket.com/albums/j332/SubtleDiscord/WIP%20Thread%20Photos/Legion_Rhino_13.jpg To keep it on the simple side, I stuck with a more 'traditional' paint chipping for my Black - Sponged Silver. I've seen many people suggest using paint straight from the pot, with no thinning, if you sponge. After some testing, I just didn't like the 'lumpy' results. I found I could get a nice 'crackle' effect with thinned paint by adding a tiny bit of Future Floor Wax - which reduces the surface tension of the paint. I've started with a Darkened Silver (A little darker than Boltgun Leadbelcher?) and sponged in on to get the outline. Then I blended in some Lighter Silver (Between Leadbelcher and Chainmail err... Ironbraker?) to add some depth. I'm not sure if I want to take it further, with even brighter Silver. It seems to be standing out well enough, and is thankfully not that labour intensive. I might just break my plan again and get this step done across the entire group. It wasn't too hard, and it's going to be interesting to see what I can do on the Power Armour. But damn, the sponges are going to need to be much smaller. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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