Blood Ravens IA July

[Halandaar]

Overall, nothing too exciting. Just "another relic Pistol no one will use".

 

The chapter tactic is actually garbage outside of powerfist fights, as not much S8+ shooting will be going into normal Marines...

 

Yeah I've never seen anyone pumping Overcharged Plasma into Marines because it normally wounds them on a 2 

[Deadass]

I just realised that they made his jump move from DoW3 a thing... lmao

[Captain Idaho]

Gabriel Angelos is amazing! What a set of rules!

 

- Rites of War... meh.

- Chief Librarian... okay.

- Purgatorus... okay. I'm actually a fan of Relic pistols, it's just the game needs to be more balanced towards close combat from shooting which is a different issue.

- Chapter Tactic... I'm unsure exactly how it works? So it removes the ability to reroll? But if it's not, then that means the wound roll of a one part is pointless.

 

If it is definitely an exception to rerolls then the rule is pretty powerful what with all those competitive games utilising reroll abilities.

[DanPesci]

 

Overall, nothing too exciting. Just "another relic Pistol no one will use".

 

The chapter tactic is actually garbage outside of powerfist fights, as not much S8+ shooting will be going into normal Marines...

 

Yeah I've never seen anyone pumping Overcharged Plasma into Marines because it normally wounds them on a 2 

 

 

I get your point, but id say more people actually overcharge due to the 2 dmg (against primaris/TEQ), not the +1 to wound.  I for one would not bother overcharging into regular 1 wound marines.

 

Angelos seems pretty decent for the points. That jump move from the game though...lol

[Haywire]

Well.... at least it doesn't grant him the keyword of 'Flyer' for a turn....

 

So, we can at least just headcanon it that it's just simply a hard Terminator charge instead of.... Soul Calibur's Yoshimitsu.

[Halandaar]

 

 

Overall, nothing too exciting. Just "another relic Pistol no one will use".

 

The chapter tactic is actually garbage outside of powerfist fights, as not much S8+ shooting will be going into normal Marines...

 

Yeah I've never seen anyone pumping Overcharged Plasma into Marines because it normally wounds them on a 2 

 

 

I get your point, but id say more people actually overcharge due to the 2 dmg (against primaris/TEQ), not the +1 to wound.  I for one would not bother overcharging into regular 1 wound marines.

 

 

Yeah, to be fair I was envisioning Primaris being the target as the D2 is relevant. But in that scenario, they're now wounding on 3's instead of 2's

 

There are other scenarios where this might come into play; Battle Canons on Knights are quite often firing into infantry as well (simply due to the fact they don't have loads of weapons to choose from and probably prioritised armour already), so those are now less effective.

 

Sure, it's situational, but so is everything.

[Panzer]

- Chapter Tactic... I'm unsure exactly how it works? So it removes the ability to reroll? But if it's not, then that means the wound roll of a one part is pointless.

 

If it is definitely an exception to rerolls then the rule is pretty powerful what with all those competitive games utilising reroll abilities.

It's just an extension to the standard "a 1 always fails" rule. Not sure how you could ever interpret it as removing the ability to re-roll. 

[lash144]

Pretty underwhelming CT to be honest...

First time I read I thought it would be ignoring 1,2,3 (similar to the IK and chaos knights). That would be amazing.

But just twos is not good. Also if you take certain primaris stuff it only activates an S10+.

[Segismundo]

CT still better than Black Templars one. 

[Irbis]

Pretty underwhelming CT to be honest...

First time I read I thought it would be ignoring 1,2,3 (similar to the IK and chaos knights). That would be amazing.

But just twos is not good. Also if you take certain primaris stuff it only activates an S10+.

 

Technically, it also shuts down stuff like votlw, but yeah, it's kind of silly how you need to bring primaris or terminators to use BR tactic most of the time.

 

Yeah, stratagem is kind of bad. Why it couldn't be another cast? Or at least psychic power unique to BR?

 

Relic is just... You had like 50+ relics to pick from DoW series, and you had to pick junk that never appeared in the games? Just why?

 

Angelos is... kind of underwhelming. You're paying 65 points over termie captain for +1A and chapter master special ability. They couldn't even give him T5 seeing he has similar level of augmentations as Cassius? Or make his relic better than just bland thunder hammer/power maul combo? Give it 4 damage at least?

[Panzer]

 

Pretty underwhelming CT to be honest...

First time I read I thought it would be ignoring 1,2,3 (similar to the IK and chaos knights). That would be amazing.

But just twos is not good. Also if you take certain primaris stuff it only activates an S10+.

 

Technically, it also shuts down stuff like votlw, but yeah, it's kind of silly how you need to bring primaris or terminators to use BR tactic most of the time.

 

 

 

Not really. It says unmodified would rolls of 1 and 2. VotLW is a modifier. So a 3 turning into a 2 still works.

[Haywire]

Perhaps they should've had a pre-game Blood Ravens stratagem that allows you to ignore the Chapter keyword for any relic available in the codex.

 

But on a serious note, I'll admit to finding the rules for Angelos to be a bit meh. I can't really comment on the crunch so much as the... 'feel' that I get for it. It really doesn't do much to convey anything about Angelos as a character or the situation that the Blood Ravens had found themselves in following the conclusion of the DoW series.

 

I think basing his rules on his appearances in the more popular games would've been a better idea than the atrocity that was DoW III. Or just go for a middle ground. I don't know... just not full DoW-III.

[SkimaskMohawk]

So things is like:

 

I actually like the tactic, but maybe it's a combination of being scarred from reapers in the early days of 8th and planning on using a bunch of intercessors. It's not flashy, but it's not awful either.

 

The pistol. Yea, it's a pistol relic. But it's a pretty decent one at the end of the day. Could see it going on a diomedes pseudo smash captain or something.

 

Things I'm mixed on;

 

The stratagem. If it gave a bonus cast it would go in the like category

 

Angelos. They gave him a bonus attack, better version of the hammer and a meme ability. They didn't bump him up to Chapter master wound levels though or do anything with his bionics.

 

Things I don't like:

 

The lack of effort. Fists got 2 relics, 3 wl traits and 3 stratagems. Blood ravens didn't even get a unique wl trait, 1 relic, 1 strat.

[Charlo]

Angelos giving full re-rolls is obviously stong and his abilities are fine. HOWEVER having to roll a 4+ to get the mortals is just stupid. These rules aren't fun GW, just increase his cost marginally and make it an auto D3 mortals. Simple.

 

Didn't clock that the librarian isn't an extra cast.... Lol, awful.

[PeteySödes]

It’s not the sexiest tactic but it’ll do work. The psychic element is really good in itself if you’re going heavy on it like they seem to want you to. The relic is fine esp when you factor in putting it on primaris which lack a little teeth sometimes.

 

All in all still pretty cool, I’m excited to see what we get next for the Index.

[TrawlingCleaner]

So things is like:

 

I actually like the tactic, but maybe it's a combination of being scarred from reapers in the early days of 8th and planning on using a bunch of intercessors. It's not flashy, but it's not awful either.

 

The pistol. Yea, it's a pistol relic. But it's a pretty decent one at the end of the day. Could see it going on a diomedes pseudo smash captain or something.

 

Things I'm mixed on;

 

The stratagem. If it gave a bonus cast it would go in the like category

 

Angelos. They gave him a bonus attack, better version of the hammer and a meme ability. They didn't bump him up to Chapter master wound levels though or do anything with his bionics.

 

Things I don't like:

 

The lack of effort. Fists got 2 relics, 3 wl traits and 3 stratagems. Blood ravens didn't even get a unique wl trait, 1 relic, 1 strat.

Crimson Fists were in the original codex with little to no effort as they came under Imperial Fists and are arguably a bigger chapter lore and game wise (not saying more people know the crimson fists over the blood ravens). Angelos is no longer Forgeworld only, which means he'll be acceptable for all GW stores. IMO it's a lot of effort for a chapter that isn't any of the big ones (lore wise)

[bluntpencil]

Unsuprisingly, Gabriel Seth remains the better Gabriel.

[Halandaar]

I think basing his rules on his appearances in the more popular games would've been a better idea than the atrocity that was DoW III. Or just go for a middle ground. I don't know... just not full DoW-III.

 

His rules are based on the model. 

 

The fact that the model is based on his DoWIII design isn't really the fault/problem of the rules writers.

[Captain Idaho]

Angelos is fine! People's expectations are shockingly over the top! We wouldn't want an Eldar player to have an automatic D3 mortal wounds for nothing.

 

The point is, he has 5 attacks with a S8, flat 3 damage weapon with no minus, as well as the ability to have 8 attacks against hordes. He wants to get into close combat anyway so his D3 mortal wounds are a bonus.

 

I dread to think what the acceptable rules for folk would be!

 

***

 

Regarding Relics and rules... not sure why the BR Chapter Tactic is what it is. Doesn't feel like it adds anything.

 

Personally I would have done something with objectives to ensure they're focussed on relic retrieval etc. Say, if a unit is within 3" of an objective or model with a Relic, including enemies and all special characters, the unit gets +1 to wound in Close Combat and is immune to morale.

 

Whatever really.

[SkimaskMohawk]

 

 

So things is like:

 

I actually like the tactic, but maybe it's a combination of being scarred from reapers in the early days of 8th and planning on using a bunch of intercessors. It's not flashy, but it's not awful either.

 

The pistol. Yea, it's a pistol relic. But it's a pretty decent one at the end of the day. Could see it going on a diomedes pseudo smash captain or something.

 

Things I'm mixed on;

 

The stratagem. If it gave a bonus cast it would go in the like category

 

Angelos. They gave him a bonus attack, better version of the hammer and a meme ability. They didn't bump him up to Chapter master wound levels though or do anything with his bionics.

 

Things I don't like:

 

The lack of effort. Fists got 2 relics, 3 wl traits and 3 stratagems. Blood ravens didn't even get a unique wl trait, 1 relic, 1 strat.

Crimson Fists were in the original codex with little to no effort as they came under Imperial Fists and are arguably a bigger chapter lore and game wise (not saying more people know the crimson fists over the blood ravens). Angelos is no longer Forgeworld only, which means he'll be acceptable for all GW stores. IMO it's a lot of effort for a chapter that isn't any of the big ones (lore wise)

I'm not sure what your points are.

 

Yea, CF had a poor representation in the codex as do all the chapters not supported by vigils; CF got a new CT, 2 new relics (for 3), 2 new traits (for 3) and 3 new stratagems from the index. Ravens have equal to the codex CF if you compare the lack of chapter tactic with lack of warlord trait.

 

CF have been around since 1st ed for sure, but popularity shouldn't have any effect on ratio of index rules released.

 

Forgeworld restrictions are a joke at this point, even more so considering that there was no point taking angelos unless you wanted the chapter master buff. The GW rules are way more over the top than anything forgeworld makes now.

 

The whole point, is that it's been the least amount of effort for any white-dwarf update and wholly beneath the other marine chapter.

[PeteySödes]

All this talk of “effort” is really odd to me. Sure they got less than CF but given the lore and history of each chapter that’s not surprising, at least to me. I’m not going to assume what’s involved in these things.

[Lemondish]

All this talk of “effort” is really odd to me. Sure they got less than CF but given the lore and history of each chapter that’s not surprising, at least to me. I’m not going to assume what’s involved in these things.

"Effort" is a complaint used to highlight that it isn't going to be the new flavour of the month.

[Guest Iron Father Bahadur]

The pistol being able to replace a heavy bolt pistol is interesting. I don't believe any characters currently have one, tells us one in the near future will. Probably that blurry lieutenant we've seen in the Primaris video the other week. 

[Jorin Helm-splitter]

 

 

 

 

Pretty underwhelming CT to be honest...

First time I read I thought it would be ignoring 1,2,3 (similar to the IK and chaos knights). That would be amazing.

But just twos is not good. Also if you take certain primaris stuff it only activates an S10+.

Technically, it also shuts down stuff like votlw, but yeah, it's kind of silly how you need to bring primaris or terminators to use BR tactic most of the time.

 

Not really. It says unmodified would rolls of 1 and 2. VotLW is a modifier. So a 3 turning into a 2 still works.

The unmodified roll is still a 1 or 2 regardless of modifiers they change the result not the die roll. This is the same wording for rolls of 1 always fail rule.

[Panzer]

 

 

 

Pretty underwhelming CT to be honest...

First time I read I thought it would be ignoring 1,2,3 (similar to the IK and chaos knights). That would be amazing.

But just twos is not good. Also if you take certain primaris stuff it only activates an S10+.

Technically, it also shuts down stuff like votlw, but yeah, it's kind of silly how you need to bring primaris or terminators to use BR tactic most of the time.

 

Not really. It says unmodified would rolls of 1 and 2. VotLW is a modifier. So a 3 turning into a 2 still works.

The unmodified roll is still a 1 or 2 regardless of modifiers they change the result not the die roll. This is the same wording for rolls of 1 always fail rule.

 

 

Nobody is denying that. But you can still wound on a 2 if it's actually an unmodified 3 with a +1 modifier like with VotLW or the Blood Angels chapter tactic or the T'au Focussed Fire Stratagem.