FlamingDeth Posted June 23, 2019 Share Posted June 23, 2019 Not that anything we say will change it since it's already been written...but how about lifting the Brotherhood of Psykers trait from thousand sons verbatim? Then make it so that both the relic and warlord trait make the character that takes them a Psykers/enhances Psyker abilities, such that you can have a bunch of weak Psykers floating around, or stack them for a single awesome one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Panzer Posted June 23, 2019 Share Posted June 23, 2019 I honestly don't think their "more psykers than average" requires any kind of special rules. It's not like it's as extensive as Grey Knights or TSons. If people want to represent that aspect of them they can just take more Psykers as HQ options and they are good. Leif Bearclaw and Halandaar 2 Back to top Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pistolero Posted June 23, 2019 Share Posted June 23, 2019 Isn't "more librarians than normal" quite a common thing gw write about smaller chapters? Like angels sanguine Iv read have twice the amount as normal for blood angels or something. Still, it would be awesome for another psyker chapter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Closet Skeleton Posted June 23, 2019 Share Posted June 23, 2019 If they're getting multiple stratagems like Crimson Fists they should get a psyker stratagem for sure but not a psyker based chapter tactic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Halandaar Posted June 23, 2019 Share Posted June 23, 2019 How about overlapping roles though? One thing I quite liked about the Blood Ravens was that Kyras was both the Chief Librarian and the Chapter Master, and it'd be nice to see some of that permeate through the ranks of the Blood Ravens to differentiate them a little bit. How about a pre-game stratagem that lets you make any character that isn't already a Librarian a psyker? For no other reason than that it's cool. Apocalypton 1 Back to top Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Petitioner's City Posted June 23, 2019 Share Posted June 23, 2019 Yeah where is this psyker thing coming from? In the games there are one librarian each game, except the chapter master, who is replaced by a non-psyker master. Maybe a librarian was elected once but it doesn't need to be standard and could perhaps happen in any chapter (or a chaplain or a techmarine, etc., If the game fluff was so flexible) ... There's no sense that anyone other than their rare men in blue are psychic.... Dark Shepherd 1 Back to top Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blindhamster Posted June 23, 2019 Share Posted June 23, 2019 they are just noted in lore as having more librarians than normal.They won't get brotherhood of psykers, but i wouldn't be surprised if they get a strat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jareddm Posted June 23, 2019 Share Posted June 23, 2019 Strong hint about it in one of the Heresy short stories, a member of the thousand sons who remains a loyalist after the heresy ends up hanging around with the white scars for a while. From recollection, was a member of the Corvidae sect whose emblem is almost identical to the BR. Can only remember generalisations, so feel free to correct me if I’ve got stuff wrong guys! Plus the fact the fleet Magnus sends away (and we haven’t heard from again) was mostly Corvidae sect. Fleet based chapter with lots of Librarians? Check! Wonder how they beat the flesh change and/or Rubic DM Sorry, but we did hear from that fleet again. It linked back up with Magnus and the rest of the Thousand Sons on Sortiarius early in Crimson King. It's an explanation for how the Thousand Sons legion still has has plenty of ships following Prospero, not a link to the Blood Ravens. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Irbis Posted June 23, 2019 Share Posted June 23, 2019 Yeah where is this psyker thing coming from? In the games there are one librarian each game, except the chapter master, who is replaced by a non-psyker master. Maybe a librarian was elected once but it doesn't need to be standard and could perhaps happen in any chapter (or a chaplain or a techmarine, etc., If the game fluff was so flexible) ... There's no sense that anyone other than their rare men in blue are psychic.... Their old Index Astartes article stated they had 20 psykers in the first company alone, allowing them to attach one to every single combat squad in it. The article also stated they made very heavy use of them in pre-battle planning (and in battle, to coordinate everyone and to predict unforeseen events). That IA was written about time DoW 1 dropped, so it's canonicity in terms of games is doubtful, but it's ironically more canon than games as far as GW lore is concerned. It's even present in their old IA art, most other chapters had like terminator or captain next to tactical marine in their scheme examples, BR have a librarian instead: [though you can see IA was done before game was, BR have much simpler and more primitive looking logo here than they do in games] librisrouge and Petitioner's City 2 Back to top Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Petitioner's City Posted June 23, 2019 Share Posted June 23, 2019 (edited) Yeah where is this psyker thing coming from? In the games there are one librarian each game, except the chapter master, who is replaced by a non-psyker master. Maybe a librarian was elected once but it doesn't need to be standard and could perhaps happen in any chapter (or a chaplain or a techmarine, etc., If the game fluff was so flexible) ... There's no sense that anyone other than their rare men in blue are psychic.... Their old Index Astartes article stated they had 20 psykers in the first company alone, allowing them to attach one to every single combat squad in it. The article also stated they made very heavy use of them in pre-battle planning (and in battle, to coordinate everyone and to predict unforeseen events). That IA was written about time DoW 1 dropped, so it's canonicity in terms of games is doubtful, but it's ironically more canon than games as far as GW lore is concerned. It's even present in their old IA art, most other chapters had like terminator or captain next to tactical marine in their scheme examples, BR have a librarian instead: [though you can see IA was done before game was, BR have much simpler and more primitive looking logo here than they do in games] Oh it's by Graham McNeill too! But I can only find one by McNeill that postdates Dawn of War 2 and its supplements, rather than dating to Dawn of War 1, including that image you quote ... Edited June 23, 2019 by Petitioner's City Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Closet Skeleton Posted June 23, 2019 Share Posted June 23, 2019 There's also the Blood Ravens psyker from Killteam Cassius and with the general 'chapter cliches' makeup of that team it implies that Librarians are a Blood Ravens specialty at least as much as Vanguard Vets are a Raven Guard thing or Bikers are a White Scars thing. Gederas 1 Back to top Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Irbis Posted June 23, 2019 Share Posted June 23, 2019 Oh it's by Graham McNeill too! But I can only find one by McNeill that postdates Dawn of War 2 and its supplements, rather than dating to Dawn of War 1, including that image you quote ... I am pretty sure it was published long before DoW2 somewhere, although I can't remember where. For one, because IA states that the chapter master is Angelos, something that produced heavy debates between game fans because nothing in the games even hinted at this, until, of course, Angelos really did became chapter master after purging traitors in DoW2 expansion ending. For two, you can see how the IA references non a single one of DoW2 characters, and is in fact completely wrong according to the game (insisting BR are fleet based chapter based on battle barge that was never mentioned in games, while in DoW2 they actually do have chapter world and few fleet assets). Funnily enough, tho, the IA pretty much claims they loot all artifacts they can, something that most likely formed basis on their lore and ways in DoW2... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Petitioner's City Posted June 23, 2019 Share Posted June 23, 2019 (edited) Oh it's by Graham McNeill too! But I can only find one by McNeill that postdates Dawn of War 2 and its supplements, rather than dating to Dawn of War 1, including that image you quote ...I am pretty sure it was published long before DoW2 somewhere, although I can't remember where. For one, because IA states that the chapter master is Angelos, something that produced heavy debates between game fans because nothing in the games even hinted at this, until, of course, Angelos really did became chapter master after purging traitors in DoW2 expansion ending. For two, you can see how the IA references non a single one of DoW2 characters, and is in fact completely wrong according to the game (insisting BR are fleet based chapter based on battle barge that was never mentioned in games, while in DoW2 they actually do have chapter world and few fleet assets). Funnily enough, tho, the IA pretty much claims they loot all artifacts they can, something that most likely formed basis on their lore and ways in DoW2...Fair does, it was published in 2005 in WD305 (https://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Index_Astartes); long before Dawn of War 2 :) And of course it was McNeill, author of the index, who sprinted cheeky allusions to DoW and the Ravens in his various works Edited June 23, 2019 by Petitioner's City Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wispy Posted June 24, 2019 Share Posted June 24, 2019 (edited) Funnily enough, tho, the IA pretty much claims they loot all artifacts they can, something that most likely formed basis on their lore and ways in DoW2...Sorry to rain on the parade but the crazy-relic-thieves meme was entirely an accidental. It emerged entirely from propping up the gameplay system of loot finding - it was about giving history to the items so finding them had a little more oomph. fans enjoyed it, took it extremely literally, and thus gave it a life of its own. :) (I know because I worked on DOW2) Edited June 24, 2019 by Wispy MajorNese, Reyner, Sandlemad and 9 others 12 Back to top Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Irbis Posted June 24, 2019 Share Posted June 24, 2019 Sorry to rain on the parade but the crazy-relic-thieves meme was entirely an accidental. It emerged entirely from propping up the gameplay system of loot finding - it was about giving history to the items so finding them had a little more oomph. fans enjoyed it, took it extremely literally, and thus gave it a life of its own. So, you decided to give BR artifacts from not just one, but four primarchs, including something as important as Forgebreaker, completely by 'accident'? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Halandaar Posted June 24, 2019 Share Posted June 24, 2019 (edited) Most of the loot from DoW is retrieved from the corpses of vanquished foes. It's not like they snuck into the Rock (or any other given location) in the middle of the night and raided the safe is it. Also; jeez it's a game with some fun easter eggs and references in it. Lighten up. Edited June 24, 2019 by Halandaar Fire Golem, BLACK BLΠFLY, Volt and 4 others 7 Back to top Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sete Posted June 24, 2019 Share Posted June 24, 2019 Now my question is will we have some transfers or upgrade sprue conveniently releasing a the same time like CF? Brother Tyler and Wakkomaster 2 Back to top Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sandlemad Posted June 24, 2019 Share Posted June 24, 2019 Even putting aside the 'lost and found' aspect, the games also often lampshaded the stolen artefacts thing, with item descriptions reminding the player of how implausible it is that these were the real deal. Like that sword that is supposedly a 'cousin' of Azrael's Sword of Secrets. The item description notes that this was the claim of the armourium serf and he's been dead for decades... Like a lot of fandom in-jokes, the Bloody Magpies stuff is good fun when it's not being run into the ground by overuse. A nod to it would be cool, more than that would be flanderising. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Tyler Posted June 24, 2019 Share Posted June 24, 2019 Their old Index Astartes article stated they had 20 psykers in the first company alone... I just re-read that article and didn't find anything about a number of psykers in the 1st Company. Admittedly, I'm reading the US WD version, so you might be citing another country's WD, which may have included information that wasn't in the U.S. version (see my point about Gabriel Angelos below). Can you quote the information you're citing? Here are the relevant quotes about the number and use of librarians within the Blood Ravens Chapter [from the U.S. WD IA article]: (Under Origins) One of the most remarkable aspects of the Blood Ravens is the large number of Librarians within the Chapter, each exceptionally powerful. Whether the number and power of Blood Raven Librarians can be attributed to the Great Father's [Azariah Vidya - a librarian who served as Chapter Master in the Chapter's past] tutelage or a tradition of reverence that encourages the Chapter members to follow his example are unknown. Neither reason, however, fully explains how the Blood Ravens manage to cultivate such a high number of Psykers within their ranks or how they raise their power to such high levels. (Under Organization) Due to the higher proportion of Librarians within the Blood Ravens, it is rare, but not unknown, for Librarians to lead companies into battle, though this situation usually occurs only when the Chapter fights alone or unaided. The higher echelons of command within the Blood Ravens reflect the high proportion of Psykers within the Chapter, and many of the Secret Masters of the Chapter are themselves Psykers who lead powerful units of warriors chosen from the Librarium itself. These warriors obsessively study the ways of the Enemy to fight the Ruinous Powers more effectively and are steeped in all manner of forbidden lore. As a result, these warriors are extensively monitored by the Chapter's Librarium for signs of corruption, as even the mightiest of Psykers is not immune to the insidious lure of Chaos. (under Beliefs) It is not uncommon for groups of Librarians to be dispatched with an army of servitors and a number of squads of Space Marines to uncover a lost artifact whose location has been recently been [sic] unearthed or revealed through ritual divination... The meme about stealing stuff is an overly simplistic view of the Chapter, missing the point of the lore. Aside from the abnormal use of psykers (more on that later), the Index Astartes article focused on two things for the Chapter. First was the Chapter's focus on seeking knowledge and artifacts; second was the Chapter's in-depth study of the enemy and resultant ability to predict and pre-empt the enemy's actions. To me, the latter is where the majority of rules (stratagems, Chapter Tactics, whatever) for the Blood Ravens should be focused. Implementations could be things like re-deploying forces, keeping forces in reserve, disrupting enemy stratagems, etc. The whole bit about seeking knowledge/artifacts would be better done as special missions or objectives (e.g., perhaps if you kill an enemy model equipped with a relic you get extra VPs or something like that). As far as the use of psykers goes, if the cited lore above remains intact, there are distinct limits. Leading companies into battle doesn't need anything special, really. It's just a matter of taking a librarian as the HQ. I could see something about increased CP generation from Librarians to reflect this, but not much more. The lore about forces of psykers and servitors is very interesting, but it only sets up a special mission for a battle-forged BLOOD RAVENS force sans allies. Of course, GW/WD could change the lore to allow for something else, but the doors would be wide open for speculation if that happened, and it would become wish-listy. As far as the discrepancy in the article with Gabriel Angelos, it's worth noting that the U.S. version of the White Dwarf Index Astartes article titled him "Force Commander" and only the U.K. version called him "Chapter Master" in that callout box. This is an interesting distinction - I recall the issue confusing me at first because I didn't know where the whole "Chapter Master Gabriel Angelos" confusion was coming from until that variation between magazines was made clear. At the time that the article was written (3rd edition), there weren't distinct Captain/Chapter Master units. There was a Space Marine Hero unit with three levels (Leader - sort of a glorified Veteran Sergeant or Lieutenant, Commander - comparable to various named Captains, and Force Commander - comparable to various named Chapter Masters). The more generic name was similar to 1st edition, which allowed for officers of varying experience/potency levels. So a "Captain" might be relatively inexperienced, following the Leader stat line; or he might be comparable to most other Captains, following the Commander stat line; or he might be very senior, following the Force Commander stat line. A Chapter Master, too, could follow any of those three stat lines, though it seems unlikely that any Chapter Master would ever use the Leader stat line. All of that is moot now since Gabriel Angelos is the Chapter Master now. Not that anything we say will change it since it's already been written...but how about lifting the Brotherhood of Psykers trait from thousand sons verbatim? Then make it so that both the relic and warlord trait make the character that takes them a Psykers/enhances Psyker abilities, such that you can have a bunch of weak Psykers floating around, or stack them for a single awesome one.That would not be accurate to the lore as there's no lore about units of psykers except for those special missions to recover knowledge/artifacts. Brotherhood of Psykers has been used to represent minor psykers whose gestalt abilities can be represented on the tabletop, not with full blown librarians. This might work as a stratagem where multiple librarians combine their powers, but it wouldn't work for other Blood Ravens units (which would be a major revision to the lore). Now my question is will we have some transfers or upgrade sprue conveniently releasing a the same time like CF?This, I think, is one of the best questions that has been asked so far. All that would really be needed would be decals or shoulder pads, but a full upgrade sprue would be nice (though I'm not sure if it would be profitable to GW). Shinespider, Felix Antipodes, BLACK BLΠFLY and 6 others 9 Back to top Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sete Posted June 24, 2019 Share Posted June 24, 2019 Honestly the best option would be to add a battlebox with them, like the Imperial Fists. Unfortunately like IF would be limited, so it would sell out for sure, that way no profit loss I reckon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MegaVolt87 Posted June 24, 2019 Share Posted June 24, 2019 Honestly the best option would be to add a battlebox with them, like the Imperial Fists. Unfortunately like IF would be limited, so it would sell out for sure, that way no profit loss I reckon. I would be far happier for transfer sheets. They would be much easier to keep in stock and make than specific upgrade kits. Transfers that are good, I am happy to pay for. GW just needs them to STAY IN STOCK FOREVER. templargdt 1 Back to top Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Panzer Posted June 24, 2019 Share Posted June 24, 2019 Honestly the best option would be to add a battlebox with them, like the Imperial Fists. Unfortunately like IF would be limited, so it would sell out for sure, that way no profit loss I reckon. Considering we are about to get a box with 30 Intercessors with Apocalypse I doubt they'd do that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sete Posted June 24, 2019 Share Posted June 24, 2019 Ah fair. I haven't been following apocalypse stuff. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wispy Posted June 24, 2019 Share Posted June 24, 2019 Sorry to rain on the parade but the crazy-relic-thieves meme was entirely an accidental. It emerged entirely from propping up the gameplay system of loot finding - it was about giving history to the items so finding them had a little more oomph. fans enjoyed it, took it extremely literally, and thus gave it a life of its own. So, you decided to give BR artifacts from not just one, but four primarchs, including something as important as Forgebreaker, completely by 'accident'? - we didn't give the BR these artifacts, the player found them in the game world - alleged aritifacts of the four primarchs, thank you. - speaking of fans taking gamey easter eggs extremely literally... Halandaar, Lightbox, Panzer and 2 others 5 Back to top Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dosjetka Posted July 4, 2019 Share Posted July 4, 2019 (edited) From the Warhammer Community article about the upcoming July WD: Index Astartes – The Blood RavensThe Index Astartes spotlight is shone upon one of the most mysterious Space Marine Chapters – the Blood Ravens – whose history and gene-lineage have long been the subject of much debate. Some questions yet remain unanswered (will they ever be?), but you’ll learn more about their origins, Chapter organisation and combat doctrine than ever before. There’s even a datasheet for their current Chapter Master, Gabriel Angelos, as well as a new Chapter Tactic, Stratagem and Relic unique to the Blood Ravens! There’s loads more on the Blood Ravens and other Warhammer 40,000 content besides… The Blood Ravens MusterRik Turner’s burgeoning Blood Ravens collection featured in White Dwarf many years ago, but you should see the size of it now… (hint – you can!) Paint Splatter – Painting Blood RavensWhite Dwarfer and Space Marines painting aficionado Matt Hutson presents a stage-by-stage guide to getting your Blood Ravens ready for battle. Ravens’ BloodIn this short story by Callum Davis, an embattled Blood Ravens fleet receives an unexpected visit from an Adeptus Custodes vessel, but what could their purpose be? Edited July 4, 2019 by Chaplain Dosjetka templargdt 1 Back to top Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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