chrac Posted November 26, 2008 Share Posted November 26, 2008 Alot of the 40k novels discuss the idea that at the end of time, the emperor + the missing loyal primarchs + any loyal SM who died fighting for the emperor will gather for a last battle against chaos. Is this just mythology (like the later deification of the emperor) or will there really be a "final battle"? (sounds strange asking if a fictitious world event is "real" or "myth", but there it is) Another quick question- some of the older fluff talks about the emperor confering with the high lords of terra and the custodes from his internment in the golden throne, but the newer fluff creates more of an image of him being mostly unconscious or passive with the exception of the astronomicon and the tarot. It seems this later viewpoint would make more sense, as if he were able to have meetings with his lords then things would run alot more smoothly in the empire. Has GW retconned the old fluff or do I misinterpret something? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/153303-final-battle-real-or-myth/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ensis Ferrae Posted November 26, 2008 Share Posted November 26, 2008 i thnk that its abit of both?? perhaps its a battle that takes place IN the warp... so that all the previously slain marines are somehow "revived" (even tho their geneseed has most likely been harvested) could also be a figurative thing, being that each marine has "lived on" thru his successor that took the seed... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/153303-final-battle-real-or-myth/#findComment-1786577 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Malachi Posted November 26, 2008 Share Posted November 26, 2008 Another quick question- some of the older fluff talks about the emperor confering with the high lords of terra and the custodes from his internment in the golden throne, but the newer fluff creates more of an image of him being mostly unconscious or passive with the exception of the astronomicon and the tarot. It seems this later viewpoint would make more sense, as if he were able to have meetings with his lords then things would run alot more smoothly in the empire. Has GW retconned the old fluff or do I misinterpret something? He was able to that for a short time after being placed in the golden throne, as far as I know it's always been that He was able to commune for some time, then stopped being able to as the demands of the astronomicon and all that got to be too much. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/153303-final-battle-real-or-myth/#findComment-1786585 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raulmichile Posted November 28, 2008 Share Posted November 28, 2008 So then, he stoped chating with others due to "traffic jams" he had now to solve :) . Mmhhh Interesting. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/153303-final-battle-real-or-myth/#findComment-1789006 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dammeron Posted November 28, 2008 Share Posted November 28, 2008 Well, the Eldar have a myth known as "The Rhana Dandra," which purports to be a projection of the "Final Battle" between the material universe and Chaos, which will end with the utter destruction of both. According to myth, the Phoenix Lords will be there, and the one to gather them together will be Feugan The Burning Lance, who will also be the last of them to die in the conflict. Whether it refers to events that will literally occur or not is open to debate. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/153303-final-battle-real-or-myth/#findComment-1789087 Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Emperor's Champion Posted November 28, 2008 Share Posted November 28, 2008 GW seems to have a major Ragnarok event in mind and this is reflected in legends of the return of Guilliman, Jonson, Kahn, and Vulkan for the final battle, and Russ' return at the Wolftime, and The Emperor's rebirth. They're all separate legends that seem to match up. Then, as said above, the Eldar have "The Rhana Dandra" which is their Ragnarok event, plus the birth of Ynnead the Eldar God of death to kill Slaanesh. If Abaddon really is Archaon's analog for 40k then he could be the "Herald Of The End Times", which seems likely since 5th edition has been declared as the "Time Of Ending". It's possible that Abaddon's 14th Black Crusade, the full awakening of the Necrons and C'Tan, and the arrival of the full Nid swarm will all correspond to the Time Of Ending/Wolf Time/Rhana Dandra. Just imagine the havoc. Maybe Abaddon will talk the demon Primarch's into getting off their asses and joining his crusade. The only real problem with all this is that the Tau don't have any real readily available source for a sudden surge of might which means they'd almost certainly be (more) screwed. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/153303-final-battle-real-or-myth/#findComment-1789152 Share on other sites More sharing options...
ikik Posted November 28, 2008 Share Posted November 28, 2008 It is a realy cool idea and me and a friend have dicussed this a more than once and my opinion is that everything will fall accept for 1 thing: The Tau Empire they would just sit there in their corner of the galaxy and when all is over they will just march out and take everything that's left of the place Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/153303-final-battle-real-or-myth/#findComment-1789299 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ensis Ferrae Posted November 29, 2008 Share Posted November 29, 2008 GW seems to have a major Ragnarok event in mind and this is reflected in legends of the return of Guilliman, Jonson, Kahn, and Vulkan for the final battle, and Russ' return at the Wolftime, and The Emperor's rebirth. They're all separate legends that seem to match up. Then, as said above, the Eldar have "The Rhana Dandra" which is their Ragnarok event, plus the birth of Ynnead the Eldar God of death to kill Slaanesh.If Abaddon really is Archaon's analog for 40k then he could be the "Herald Of The End Times", which seems likely since 5th edition has been declared as the "Time Of Ending". It's possible that Abaddon's 14th Black Crusade, the full awakening of the Necrons and C'Tan, and the arrival of the full Nid swarm will all correspond to the Time Of Ending/Wolf Time/Rhana Dandra. Just imagine the havoc. Maybe Abaddon will talk the demon Primarch's into getting off their asses and joining his crusade. The only real problem with all this is that the Tau don't have any real readily available source for a sudden surge of might which means they'd almost certainly be (more) screwed. you forgot the most important primarch of all in that post.... Corax!!!!! hehe, just kidding, as we raven guard are known for sticking to the shadows, its easy to forget that he walked off as well as vulkan, russ, and all the others. as to the whole Ragnarok, or armageddon (like the biblical one, not the planetary system in 40k) as for the Tau just sorta "chillin" in their corner of the galaxy, i truly doubt that would happen... perhaps the "Main" tyranid swarm will overwhelm the Tau area first... perhaps the tau would be saved from extinction by the heroic acts of [insert chapter name here] and the noble orks... did i just call the orks noble??? in any event, it would provide an interesting side story to have the tau "saved" by orks Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/153303-final-battle-real-or-myth/#findComment-1789850 Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Emperor's Champion Posted November 29, 2008 Share Posted November 29, 2008 I didn't forget Corax at all....he just doesn't have any legends about returning.... *shrug* Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/153303-final-battle-real-or-myth/#findComment-1790004 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Excalibur Posted November 29, 2008 Share Posted November 29, 2008 It most likely won't happen because GW isn't creative enough to deal with it. It is just your standard end of the world myth that cultures have on Earth. It is something fun to boast about "Just wait till Russ comes back, he will beat your army so bad." Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/153303-final-battle-real-or-myth/#findComment-1790066 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ensis Ferrae Posted November 29, 2008 Share Posted November 29, 2008 It most likely won't happen because GW isn't creative enough to deal with it. It is just your standard end of the world myth that cultures have on Earth. It is something fun to boast about "Just wait till Russ comes back, he will beat your army so bad." though that wont stop folks from dreaming up how it would work, or what would happen and how things would play out... i suspect that GW is trying more for a static wartorn galaxy, where things dont really change... there is always war, and always people dying in massive numbers... yet somehow there is no catalyst event to spark the war to end all wars. plus, where would GW take the game/story arc if the "final battle" came and went... there theoretically couldnt be too much to do after the end of the most horrific war the galaxy had ever seen coming to an end... i mean, sure we'd probably only be left with something like the IG, the Orks, the Necrons, some Nids, and possibly a severely depleted marine force..but that vast majority of life in the galaxy would be extinct... and knowing GW, Chaos cant possibly win... because the Smurfs are just TOO cool... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/153303-final-battle-real-or-myth/#findComment-1790114 Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Emperor's Champion Posted November 29, 2008 Share Posted November 29, 2008 Ideally they just make Warhammer 50,000 and tell us how it all played out in the end without us going through it. Then treat 40k as the Horus Hersey is now and fill in the details in reverse. That way we can get a whole new mess of radically different models and convert all the inbetweens. The Marines of an Imperium where technology is again understood, Tau who've existed for 10x longer, hyper evolved Nids....whatever. Awesomness abounds...if they don't screw it up. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/153303-final-battle-real-or-myth/#findComment-1790255 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sigismund Himself Posted November 30, 2008 Share Posted November 30, 2008 You should have a read of Rise of the Tau. It's a good story of what might happen in the future... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/153303-final-battle-real-or-myth/#findComment-1790321 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Malachi Posted November 30, 2008 Share Posted November 30, 2008 I didn't forget Corax at all....he just doesn't have any legends about returning....*shrug* Does Vulkan have one then? I'm not being a smart-ass, I really don't know. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/153303-final-battle-real-or-myth/#findComment-1790830 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ensis Ferrae Posted November 30, 2008 Share Posted November 30, 2008 far as i remember he doesnt have one as "prophetic" as Leman Russ... something more along the lines of he'll just come back when the time is right, and reclaim his throne and mastership of the now chapter. though, i did just come up with a question.... IF this epic final battle were to take place, and all the primarchs who are still "living" rise up and fight... do you think they would reform their legions, or that their successor chapters would willingly accept the rule of a Primarch, after having had 40 some odd millenia of autonomy without them??? obviously Russ is a no brainer, since there arent any successors from the SWs, in fact, other than the 12 great companies, the only org. with the same geneseed is the 13th co. but i cant see the Smurf successors all lining up to be with papa smurf all of the sudden... some of them might be afraid of him having an anurism because of their deviancy from the Codex Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/153303-final-battle-real-or-myth/#findComment-1790848 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malachi n'Ral Posted November 30, 2008 Share Posted November 30, 2008 Don't forget about Sanguinius. There's fluff about him being "reborn" and all that goodness. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/153303-final-battle-real-or-myth/#findComment-1790878 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ironfather0 Posted November 30, 2008 Share Posted November 30, 2008 its said that ferrus mannus will return at the darkest moment to lead mankind. As of right now he's training in an "unearthly paradise" Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/153303-final-battle-real-or-myth/#findComment-1790927 Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Emperor's Champion Posted November 30, 2008 Share Posted November 30, 2008 Yea, Vulkan has a prophecy of his return. That's part of Vulkan He'Stan's quest, remember? Collect the 9? relics Vulkan hid throughout the galaxy to prove its time for his to return (or something along those lines). Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/153303-final-battle-real-or-myth/#findComment-1791172 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grand Master Tyrak Posted November 30, 2008 Share Posted November 30, 2008 Ironfather0 Posted Today, 03:54 PM its said that ferrus mannus will return at the darkest moment to lead mankind. As of right now he's training in an "unearthly paradise" :lol: Ferrus Manus had his head cut off. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/153303-final-battle-real-or-myth/#findComment-1791212 Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Emperor's Champion Posted November 30, 2008 Share Posted November 30, 2008 Yea....Ferrus Mannus is just dead... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/153303-final-battle-real-or-myth/#findComment-1791249 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ensis Ferrae Posted December 1, 2008 Share Posted December 1, 2008 i think Ironfather0 was being sarcastic, hence why he said ferrus was training in an "unearthly paradise" which to me, means the afterlife Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/153303-final-battle-real-or-myth/#findComment-1791697 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mertio23 Posted December 2, 2008 Share Posted December 2, 2008 Don't forget the Lion, one day he will return, and absolve Luther of his sins, kick ass etc. :P Oh, and Guilliman's healing whilst in stasis too... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/153303-final-battle-real-or-myth/#findComment-1793453 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hellios Posted December 2, 2008 Share Posted December 2, 2008 I think its likely alot of chapters would fall into line with their Primarch if he returned. From what I've read it sounds like alot of the Ultramarine successors will follow requests made by the lord Macragge (sp), also all (as far as I know) Dark Angels successors have the Inner Circle, and its the same inner circle that crosses between the chapters however Azreal is the only Supreme Grand Master of the Inner Circle so technically all the Dark Angel Successor chapter masters are subordinate to him even if not officially. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/153303-final-battle-real-or-myth/#findComment-1793560 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leonaides Posted December 2, 2008 Share Posted December 2, 2008 I really wouldnt read too much into that bit of canine excrement about everyone following where lcagar leads. For a start, he asked Dante to command over him at the second battle of armageddon (as did Tu'shan of the salamanders IIRC)... Doesn't like to admit to that one on his CV now, does he...? :devil: Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/153303-final-battle-real-or-myth/#findComment-1793668 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raulmichile Posted December 9, 2008 Share Posted December 9, 2008 Ironfather0 Posted Today, 03:54 PM its said that ferrus mannus will return at the darkest moment to lead mankind. As of right now he's training in an "unearthly paradise" :P Ferrus Manus had his head cut off. Well, so then he will return with his head missing... :P Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/153303-final-battle-real-or-myth/#findComment-1801696 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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