Citizen Snips Posted June 27, 2009 Share Posted June 27, 2009 I have played three planet strike games at GW with a friend. Yesterday, I played defense with CSM and he played Chaos Demons attacking. I don't care about the rule lawyering crap about Demons not being able to deep strike and all that and I told him go ahead and play everything can deep strike assault. I took 3 Daemon princes, 2 squads of terminators, two walkers, three obliteratoras, 10 man lesser squad, and one unit of T Sons. He took, two Nurgle princes, Bloodthirster, 3 large squads of BloodLetters, and Skulltaker with eight Bloodcrushers. I got a mission where I have one objective that is placed in the middle. I took a stratagem that fortifies the bastion and allows it to ignore the first wrecked or explosion result. Well, I will say, all demons deep striking assaulting is tough, but I took out a good amount of his army. However, the one big issues with demons in PS is that they don't have much to destroy a AV14 bastion. He had a a Nurgle prince bashing on the Bastion for 3 or 4 turns and was not able to get high enough penetration on it. It wasn't till about turn 4 or 5 when his Bloodthirster was able to break off and assault it. Strength 9, double D6, 6 attacks was the only way he was able to get into it. I ended up losing in the end because he focused everything on the objective and I just became overwhelmed with MC's and Bloodcrushers. Demons being ale to deep strike assault are tough, but it's not too hard to counter since the defender sets up all terrain and objectives. I even gave the guy alot of room to deep strike in, and he still struggled with taking the objective down. What lost it for me was putting 2 plasma wounds on the BT with 1 wound left and him making all the saves. With the one wound left, he was able to charge the objective and bring it down. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Infidel Posted June 28, 2009 Share Posted June 28, 2009 Dont they already? ;P QFT Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrantDaKiller Posted June 28, 2009 Share Posted June 28, 2009 On Saturday i managed to virtually wipe out a Deathwing army with my attacking Khorne Horde in two turns! It really helps that u get +1 to reserve rolls. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Citizen Snips Posted June 28, 2009 Share Posted June 28, 2009 On Saturday i managed to virtually wipe out a Deathwing army with my attacking Khorne Horde in two turns! It really helps that u get +1 to reserve rolls. You get +2 and it starts on turn one. It goes turn one 3+, turn two 2+, turn three automatic. I love this system because it helps speed up the game and gets more action in the first few turns, rather than toward the end of the game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DokSnyder Posted June 29, 2009 Share Posted June 29, 2009 I read my copy of Planetstrike yesterday and it sais that you CANNOT assault in a turn where you arrived via a means of transport, for example Drop Pods. That would invalidate the examples in the WD (again...) and also limit the number of units able to deepstrike and assault severely. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seahawk Posted June 30, 2009 Share Posted June 30, 2009 Are jump packs a means of transport? Personal flyers, perhaps. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DuskRaider Posted June 30, 2009 Share Posted June 30, 2009 No, I don't think they're considered such. And it should be mentioned, they CAN assault if the transport is open-topped (ie Dreadclaw). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Infidel Posted June 30, 2009 Share Posted June 30, 2009 If we're still discussing what can and cant assault after DS, i think now they've been made quite clear. Assaulting daemons is one of the most broken attacking army. Drop a few BT, KoS, Fiends, Grinders and just about everyone goes home packing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nuriel-666 Posted July 1, 2009 Share Posted July 1, 2009 Are there any Chaos Daemons specific stratagems in the book? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Emperor's Instrument Posted July 1, 2009 Share Posted July 1, 2009 Are there any Chaos Daemons specific stratagems in the book? Unfortunately no but there are plenty of decent 'any army' ones to choose from. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wolf Lord Fenrir Posted July 1, 2009 Share Posted July 1, 2009 It'd be nice to get this cleared up when the book comes out, but somehow I doubt GW is organised enough to do that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grey Mage Posted July 1, 2009 Share Posted July 1, 2009 Terminators use the deep strike rule, but it isn't in the unit entry. Daemons use the deep strike rule, but it isn't in the unit entry. According to the rumor:-Attacking units with the Deep Strike rule in their codex unit entry can assault the turn they deep strikeAs you can see, so far as this goes, daemons/terminators cannot assault on the DS, as they don't have the DS rule in their unit entry. Whether it's optional for the unit or not doesn't mean anything. Landspeeders, valkyries, stormtroopers, obliterators, ravenors, gargoyles, spore mines, and only a couple others actually have the special rule Deep Strike in their unit entry. So, either we aren't getting the full quote, or it's going to be a rarely accessed extra ability. Daemonic assault counts- its an army wide special rule and so you get the DS special rule for having the Daemon special rule. And actually I find 1500pts of DSing Khorne wasnt horribly broken- you need soul grinders and monstrous creatures to get the bastions down so your troops can get into them. And with MCs being around 250pts a peice thats a limiting factor on how destructive the army can be. Combine that with some defensive strategems like laser maze, pylons, and interceptor weapons to get a few shots off before the enemy hits you.... its actually fairly balanced. I wish daemons were that balanced in the normal game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wolf Lord Fenrir Posted July 2, 2009 Share Posted July 2, 2009 Read through the entry this morning. It says (if my memory is right) "when the unit becomes available, it enters play by deep strike" Pretty clear indication that daemons deep strike! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Citizen Snips Posted July 2, 2009 Share Posted July 2, 2009 And actually I find 1500pts of DSing Khorne wasnt horribly broken- you need soul grinders and monstrous creatures to get the bastions down so your troops can get into them. And with MCs being around 250pts a peice thats a limiting factor on how destructive the army can be. Combine that with some defensive strategems like laser maze, pylons, and interceptor weapons to get a few shots off before the enemy hits you.... its actually fairly balanced. I wish daemons were that balanced in the normal game. This is why Daemons become much more balanced for PS than most people think. Sure a soul grinder can open a Bastion up for a Demons troops, however, that Soulgrinder has to survive a few las cannon shots as it deep strikes down. Not to mention any Princes or Bloodthirsters will be soaking up alot of anti deep strike fire from the turrets. And some of the defensive abilitys let you ignore the first damage result on the chart which makes it even harder for Demons to break it down. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drazz Posted July 3, 2009 Share Posted July 3, 2009 I think the debate about whether or not daemons officially have Deep Strike is overblown. All entries in the Chaos Daemon Codex have the special rule: Daemon. Daemon actually has several parts to it, including their movement onto the board by Deep Strike. How is that unclear? Daemon=deep strike. Now, you could theoretically argue that those that enter in the first wave do not have Deep Strike. There's something about the way its worded that is ambiguous. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wolf Lord Fenrir Posted July 6, 2009 Share Posted July 6, 2009 I think the debate about whether or not daemons officially have Deep Strike is overblown. All entries in the Chaos Daemon Codex have the special rule: Daemon. Daemon actually has several parts to it, including their movement onto the board by Deep Strike. How is that unclear? Daemon=deep strike. Now, you could theoretically argue that those that enter in the first wave do not have Deep Strike. There's something about the way its worded that is ambiguous. People will try it though - you watch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Souchan Posted July 6, 2009 Share Posted July 6, 2009 I had a game of planet strike yesterday: my opponents Daemons vs My Salamanders. It was 1500 points and I placed down 5 bastions, however the lascannons sadly go for the nearest target when automated so his grinders avoided them well. I found nothing wrong with the daemons assault, though terrifying and I pulled out the win by the end of the game. I'll give the base facts for an idea what went on. His list: 3 Bloodthirsters with unholy Strength 2 squads of screamers(I think 9 each, not sure) 2 Soul grinders both with Tongue and Phlegm Mine: 2 Tacsquads Melta, Multimelta, Combi Melta 2 Tacsquads HeavyBolter, Flamer, CC weapon 9man Sternguard with Vulkan and 2 combimelta and Lightningclaw MMelta Dread in droppod Ironclad Melta Heavyflamer in droppod His first turn he got everything except one squad of screamers (1st turn 3+ reserves is scary vs daemons) They all landed safely(next turn his last batch of screamers mishapped and died) and after failing to tongue and one of the lascannons only getting a single wound on a thirster. at the end of the 1st turn 2 of my bastions were gone, by the 2nd all 5 were rubble. My dropodding dreads took out one grinder and weight of fire took down the the first thirster. After killing it thanks to hellfire another thirster attacked my sternguard killing Vulkan due to one failed save, but thankfully failed leadership and ran away safely(sweep 4vs his 1). Actually almost every CC ended that way which was a blessing. The last thirster killed my ironclad, but by fortune the soulgrinder charging my multimelta dread got exploded by its fist and eventually the last thrister died due to weight of meltas. All in all it was lots of fun, amazing that all 9 sternguard survived even with his grinder running them off the board, it's death when they were 5" away was a blessing. Even a list as unblanaced as that with 1st turn charges isn't all that bad. I look forward to more Planet strike games to form a more solid opinion ;) Also over on warseer I'm in a topic in rules about the "Needs USR in unit entry", after making a list I noticed there are only a handful of units even capable of using it, which to me seems directly oppossed to the idea, namely: Obliterators, all Non Vanilla Assault squads(but not BA's Veteran assault squad, why their regulars do get it though :S), BA Terminators and Tau XV8 and 25 suits. I lack some dexes though(Necron ,Eldar, IG, Dark Eldar and Tyranids, but I believe Storm Troopers and Flayed ones probably have the rule printed as well) so there might be some more. Because of that, I really disagree with the RAW notion here and think that as long as the unit itself is allowed deep strike by some manner(jump infantry, printed rule, wargear) it my use PS's Shock Tactics rule. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seahawk Posted July 6, 2009 Share Posted July 6, 2009 So cavalry, beasts, and vehicles must enter play via the DZ instead of normal deep striking. The DZ can be any table edge, chosen by the attacker after terrain is set up. This is massively awesome for our beasts/cav, and walkers too potentially. Just imagine, 1-36 fiends appearing right next to your defenses, NOT getting shot by intercepter guns, and then assaulting with a whopping 6-216 rending attacks. Even if the defenders are deployed in the middle of the board, they'll likely be within 19" of a long board edge to charge anyway. Minefields and other such things will take their toll, but it shouldn't be that bad. Just a fun idea I thought of today. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Souchan Posted July 6, 2009 Share Posted July 6, 2009 So cavalry, beasts, and vehicles must enter play via the DZ instead of normal deep striking. The DZ can be any table edge, chosen by the attacker after terrain is set up. This is massively awesome for our beasts/cav, and walkers too potentially. Just imagine, 1-36 fiends appearing right next to your defenses, NOT getting shot by intercepter guns, and then assaulting with a whopping 6-216 rending attacks. Even if the defenders are deployed in the middle of the board, they'll likely be within 19" of a long board edge to charge anyway. Minefields and other such things will take their toll, but it shouldn't be that bad. Just a fun idea I thought of today. Actually they still get deep striked as per our codex requiring it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seahawk Posted July 6, 2009 Share Posted July 6, 2009 Here the problem is "it enters play by Deep Strike" directly opposes "always enter play from the drop zone." There is no real requirement for Deep Striking daemons, technically. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flamedrag Posted July 7, 2009 Share Posted July 7, 2009 Still really not sure what happens when the Daemons play as the defenders though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OwlandMoonGuy Posted July 7, 2009 Share Posted July 7, 2009 Though not expressly stated, it’s my understanding that the Codex rules supersede the Expansion’s rules in cases like these. So be it Cities of Death, Apoc or now Planet Strike, the Daemonic Assault rule replaces the deployment rules included in the expansion. So even when Daemons take the Defender role in PS games, they should abide by the rules in the Codex for deployment. That means the attacker could get a free turn to claim positions but that’s how it rolls when Daemons are defending terrestrial positions while striking from the Warp. Since the rules for Reserves change in PS games, this will be less of an issue since the whole of the Daemon army is guaranteed to be on the table a lot sooner. Also, it takes quite the rules lawyer to claim that Deep Striking isn’t really Deep Striking when it comes to Daemons. Here we have an entire army that can’t enter play unless it Deep Strikes but somehow that’s not really Deep Striking in the same context as PS and assaults. What? Sorry. You can’t force an entire army to use a particular rule and then come around and say they don’t really have it. That’s a complete contradiction by my read. Anyway, if I can now quote a real miracle maker, “Have fun stormin’ the castle!” -OMG Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twistinthunder Posted July 7, 2009 Share Posted July 7, 2009 yes yet another case of gw ****ing up again why couldnt they bear in mind the daemon players for once. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alkkrision Posted July 7, 2009 Share Posted July 7, 2009 To be honest I've been of the school of thought that Daemons were entering play via. Daemonic Assault. But then I've been reading some tacticia on the GW website (as per http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/content/...02&start=8#, and it does seem to be stipulating that Daemons are able to assault the turn they deep strike according to this. I know unless it's really cleared up in an FAQ, it can't exactly be described as official, but if someone's posting on the website that you can, it might help to clear things up a bit for now until we hear otherwise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spacefrisian Posted July 17, 2009 Share Posted July 17, 2009 Deamons enter play in the same manner as deepstrike. It doesn't say they have deepstrike it says they scatter like deepstrike. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.