Daemons and Planetstrike

[eyescrossed]

Deamons enter play in the same manner as deepstrike. It doesn't say they have deepstrike it says they scatter like deepstrike.

Uhh... I think you need to reread "Daemonic Assault" on Page 27 of the Daemons army book.

[avatar8481]

Nobody in the game "has deepstrike" (except a very few units) lots of things, "arrive via the deepstrike rules". Deep Strike is neither a USR or a codex-specific rule, and so any unit that has "Deep Strike" in it's unit description has a null-reference, since there is no such unit-rule. There is a deployment method called "deep strike" and that's what is typically referred to.

 

Just GW messing up again really. However RAI I think everybody, including GW, believes that daemons assault on the turn they arrive, same as terminators, fast attack grey knights, and every other unit that only has "arrives vis deep strike" in their description.

[Seahawk]

Ugh, I played a Planetstrike as defender. Daemons are bad at defending, compared to many other armies!!! Firstly we don't get the Shock Tactics, and second we can get toasted easily. However, having half your army come in the 1st turn, plus the rest in reserves, potentially means your entire army starts the game on the table. However, it was indeed going quite well against the cookie cutter Vulkan list...right up until a recycled unit of assault terminators arrived and assaulted my flamers, wiping them. Curse the vast amount of good attacker strategems and few defender strategems!

 

Though we agreed to reverse the positions next game, so I'll get to drop and assault him instead...it'll feel gooood...

[Souchan]

Ugh, I played a Planetstrike as defender. Daemons are bad at defending, compared to many other armies!!! Firstly we don't get the Shock Tactics, and second we can get toasted easily. However, having half your army come in the 1st turn, plus the rest in reserves, potentially means your entire army starts the game on the table. However, it was indeed going quite well against the cookie cutter Vulkan list...right up until a recycled unit of assault terminators arrived and assaulted my flamers, wiping them. Curse the vast amount of good attacker strategems and few defender strategems!

 

Though we agreed to reverse the positions next game, so I'll get to drop and assault him instead...it'll feel gooood...

 

The defenders usually make up for it with the bulding f the terrain, it is actualy an essential part of the defenders strength. Besides determining volume of objectives and thus bonus firestorms and stratagems, he gets to assemble the field in such a way as to best formulate his plans. Not to mention, free choice of stuff like bastions.

[Seahawk]

Well yes I know that, and I tried. Made the battlefield all complicated and such...I could've done better in hindsight, but as it was I forced him to take a short board edge with a long walk through difficult terrain to the objectives. If you don't have the shiny new terrain due to finances (and anger at GW's blatant marketing strategy) then defending gets hard, fast. Still, I mounted a BC turret and various stormbolters and missile launchers on my objectives...which all typically missed. The guns really don't do that much with fewer shots, or even ordnance weapons.

 

It isn't easy to formulate a strategy with daemons in the first place; making one for defending a position for the first time isn't any easier.

[Captain Malachi]

I guess that's just something you have to accept if you play daemons. We are naturally the single most aggressive army in the game, defending is always going to be hard, planetstrike or not.

[Rahveel]

I would think it would be advantageous to take as little defenses as possible, and force our opponent to concentrate his forces on a small number of objectives. daemons have little problems when our opponents get all snuggly with themselves.

 

I think the key to winning as attacker in planetstrike is to take 3 bloodthirsters.

[Gentlemanloser]

We've found the Daemon army is not only one of the best attacking armies, but potentially the best Defending army in PS, bar none.

 

When defending, you get to utterly ignore (bar taking out any of your bastions/other terrin features of course...) the Firestorm offense, then as the attacker has to go first, you let him waste an entire turn, while you then DS next to his units and first turn assult them.

 

It's brutal.

 

Plus all (or most if not all?) defense versus DSing in troops are defenders Strategies, not available to the Attacker, so there's little they can do to stop it. No Krak Traps or the like.

 

but as it was I forced him to take a short board edge with a long walk through difficult terrain to the objectives.

 

How did you do that? The only tihng I can think of is Drop Zone Denial (which in most defensive set ups sems to be utterly manditory... /bleh), which would only deny him his first choice of board edge, but them him pick another. There's nothing I can think of that forces the attacker to take the edge you want.

 

However, the one big issues with demons in PS is that they don't have much to destroy a AV14 bastion.

 

Whn attacking, you don't need to, and sometimes shouldn't try to, pop the Bastions. All you need to do is kill the unit inside it.

 

And Breath of Chaos is insanely good at that.

[Seahawk]

while you then DS next to his units and first turn assult them

Impossible. Read more carefully, as only the Attacker's unit get to use the Shock Tactics special rule. As the defender, you have to wait one turn to assault, hence daemons lack of good at defending.

 

How did you do that?

I set up long series of impassable terrain along the long board edges, blocking them off entirely, while stacking up the short board edges with layers of difficult terrain.

 

As for killing bastions or the unit inside, yes it's easy to breath units out of bunkers, but it's much easier to throw a BT or any other GD at the walls and knock them down quick-style.

 

I've found Scorched Skies and Ground Observer to be my favorite attacker strategems with daemons. Scorched skies gives many more chances at cracking heavy targets (my best has been 16 firestorms, heh!) as well as giving you a very strong chance of routing, catching, and destroying any units you assault. Not only that, it's great with the Changling. I once dropped in on Orks with great results. The KoS assaulted a void-shielded bastion containing Lootas, blowing it wide open. Next turn he zoomed some 'ard boyz over out of a trukk to assault the Horrors including the Changling, as he hates it. I saved his ability for those Lootas, and at Ld 5 it paid off. They wiped out the 'ardboyz, leaving me good to go, heh. He found another reason to hate it. Good times.

[Hellios]

Do you think it would be better if you ignored daemonic assault (as a house rules) when defending because the daemons are already there and not just popping out of the warp?

[avatar8481]

you can ignore whatever you want as a house rule, but RAW they still daemonic assault.