New fluff for Sanguinius and the Blood Angels

[Magnus Thane]

Some of this fluff is really cool. And the BA Codex sounds great fun.

Good for you guys!

Though I must frown at another round of (pseudo?)retconning, vagueness and oddities here and there. No offense but being 'uber' is not persay a good thing. But then I'm getting the impression most BA players understand this.

[Kaled100]

Again, you can deny it if you like, but I'm holding the book right now and I can give you any part of it word for word.

The point is that no where does it say that Mephiston is becoming a daemon prince - based on what's been posted, there's a story that a daemon prince says that Mephiston is on the road to daemonhood which is very different. Do Blood Angel players normally trust the word of foul daemons? M'Kar could well be lying for reasons of his own - maybe to undermine Mephiston by placing that seed of doubt in his heart...

[Nomus Sardauk]

- In the current timeline, Baal is under imminent invasion from a tendril of Hive Fleet Leviathan and the daemonic hordes of Bloodthirster Ka'Bandah. Dante gathers all Blood Angels forces back to Baal and issues a call to all Blood Angels successors chapters for assistance. All successor chapters except the Lamentors responded, and it is said that this could be the final battle of the Sons of Sanguinius.

 

The Lord of Bloodthirsters, Ka'Bandha... Our ancient nemesis draws near my brothers, this shall be a test indeed.

[KingDeath]

Having read this thread i dread what will happen to the GK fluff. Stern will probably uppercut an entire daemonworld by himself while Aurelian will be resurected, after he kicked Khorne in the balls, forced Nurgle to take a bath, beat Tzeentch at chess and forced Slaanesh to take a vow of chastity. Ah well, at least it won't be written by Matt Ward.

[Piousservant]

Having read this thread i dread what will happen to the GK fluff. Stern will probably uppercut an entire daemonworld by himself while Aurelian will be resurected, after he kicked Khorne in the balls, forced Nurgle to take a bath, beat Tzeentch at chess and forced Slaanesh to take a vow of chastity. Ah well, at least it won't be written by Matt Ward.

 

Well now you've jinxed it... ;) :)

[whitewolfmxc]

Having read this thread i dread what will happen to the GK fluff. Stern will probably uppercut an entire daemonworld by himself while Aurelian will be resurected, after he kicked Khorne in the balls, forced Nurgle to take a bath, beat Tzeentch at chess and forced Slaanesh to take a vow of chastity. Ah well, at least it won't be written by Matt Ward.

 

 

I lol ed so hard after reading this XD

 

 

No offense but being 'uber' is not persay a good thing. But then I'm getting the impression most BA players understand this.

 

Yes lets hope thanks to Mr ward , the BA wont get the UM look on others when they read the fluff......>< but im afraid its a bit late to say sigh

[Brother Mathias]

Was presented with a copy of the new codex yesterday :unsure: and I'm finding the fluff a little bizarre and disturbing...

 

This thread has gone over some of the bigger changes, which for the most part I have no problem with. But somehow Mr. Ward managed to make our fluff more "codex adherent" while making our army list less adherent.

 

Here are some of the changes that have me scratching my head:

 

* BA neophytes are no longer inducted to the reserve companies and the scouts are no longer the most blood thirsty brothers. Instead we get "codex adherent" scouts that like to sneak around and play with long rifles. Sanguination is no longer the super quick yet flawed process it was, but now much more in line with the codex timeline for developing marines.

 

* Chaplains no longer watch for the black rage nor apparently do they lead the DC. Astoroth apparently has sole responsibility for winnowing out those brothers who are falling to the BR, and he has this over the BA and all their succesors! When does this guy have time to fight? He's traveling more than a door to door salesman! And now apparently Lemartes was just a regular chappy before the black rage. I guess the old IA article on chappies and every previous codex is a lie.

 

* The Blood Knights. A BA successor that went renegade but still fights for the Emperor (Soul Drinkers?). And apparently they answered Dante's call for reinforcements. Why in the world would Dante petition a renegade chapter?

 

* In the librarian entry, apparently BA are now the chapter of librarians, with a greater percentage than any other SM chapter. Ok....

 

* Sanguinius created the Sanguinary Preisthood because he saw the flaw coming in his visions...

 

* No mention of Sanguinius knowing his own fate on Horus's Battle Barge.

 

* Lamenter's 'are no longer a failed and extremely unlucky experiment of the Mech, but a straight up successor. Makes them so less interesting...

 

OK, done ranting. I really like the codex. I like the wealth of fluff. But somehow these little twists and changes bother me. Oh well, back to waiting for my pre-order to arrive. ;)

[Deaders]

pg. 12

"It is almost certain that he knew he was going to his death when he boarded Horus' Battle Barge and yet he went anyway."

 

pg. 42, Chaplains

"maintain an eternal vigil for the onset of the Black Rage amongst their Battle-Brothers."

 

And more mentions of the chaplains watching for and then leading marines who fall to Black Rage can be found in the Death Company entry.

 

The Astorath fluff is interesting, even if unbelievable. He must rack up some serious frequent warping miles.

 

The scout fluff is :unsure:.

[Heru]

Pretty sure that the Necrons have become familiar with Tyranids over the past millenia and know that Tyranids are a far greater threat to their existence than the Astartes.

What does a race of metal have to fear from a race that is only interested in biomass? Answer nothing whatsoever. Heck Tyranid Hive Fleets even go to great lengths to avoid Necron tomb worlds. Heck the Tyranids aren't even a threat to the Ctan food source because they are a food source.

 

It would make sense to cooperate because of the threat that Tyranids are to the galaxy as a whole. The Necrons have plenty of other opportunities to make Pariahs out of Space Marine Librarians but they wont be able to do that if every psyker out there has been digested and turned into gaunts ;)

Necron Pariah's aren't made out of psykers. They are made out of human pariahs (people without a presence in the Warp at all). The Warp (and thus Psykers) is harmful to the Ctan and thus an enemy of the Necrons.

 

 

Dante and the Blood Angels battle Necrons on <can't remember planet> until a Tyrannid Hive Fleet shows up. The Blood Angels and Necrons stop fighting and initiate a JOINT ATTACK on the Tyrannids. Once the 'nids have been driven off, Dante and the Necron SomethingKing simply part ways, instead of killing each other. Apparently the Blood Angels thought it was "distasteful to attack those who were so recently their allies in battle."

:: Looks at the Calgar vs Tau then both vs Necrons incident in Codex Space Marines ::

 

It's basically that story all over again, and Matt Ward wrote both. There is no way in hell the Necrons would ally let alone play honourable afterwords by letting the BA leave.

 

 

That is really really really bad fluff.

[Vodunius]

Here are some of the changes that have me scratching my head:

 

* BA neophytes are no longer inducted to the reserve companies and the scouts are no longer the most blood thirsty brothers.

 

Thats not a problem with the new codex, thats a problem with BA players inventing their own fluff based on a few hyperbole statements in order to sate their thirst for more deviancy and then thinking its canon. The fact that BA Scouts are the most blood thirsty marines in the chapter doesn't mean that BA recruits start in the reserve companies any more than Space Wolf Blood Claws being the most blood thirsty Space Wolves means SW recruits start off as Grey Hunters.

 

BA Scouts were rookies in both the PDF dex and the illustrious Codex: Angels of Death - 3rd edition was simply vague and cursed with hyperbole, it wasn't contradictory of the other two.

 

 

Here are some of the changes that have me scratching my head:

* The Blood Knights. A BA successor that went renegade but still fights for the Emperor (Soul Drinkers?). And apparently they answered Dante's call for reinforcements. Why in the world would Dante petition a renegade chapter?

Maybe he doesn't feel their renegade status was deserved and feels the Blood Angels standing in the Imperium is sufficient to protect it against any potential retribution from consorting with them.

 

2nd Battle of Armageddon. It is confirmed in the Codex that Tu'Shan of the Salamanders and Calgar of the Ultramarines tell Dante "Yes, you are in fact the boss of us." Glorious victory.

Hardly news, I'm pretty certain that was spelled out in the Battle for Armageddon rulebook.

[Brassangel]

I had my chance to read our new Codex, and it fills my heart with pride to know that justice was done to our great Primarch. Here are some of the new fluff for the Blood Angels and Sanguinius.

 

- Sanguinius and the Blood Angels Legion served as the Emperor's own Honour Guard, fighting at the Emperor's side during the Great Crusade.

- Even Horus sensed a purity of spirit within Sanguinius that he could never match. True to the Horus Heresy books, Sanguinius has indeed inherited the soul of the Emperor.

- Sanguinius took over Horus' position as commander-in-chief of all loyal Imperial forces after Horus' betrayal. Not Guilliman, not Dorn, but Sanguinius.

- During the Heresy, the Blood Angels fought across the Imperium in the bloodiest battles, clashing numerous times with the World Eaters Legion.

- Horus hated and feared Sanguinius more than any other loyal Primarchs. :P

- The Blood Angels led the defense of the Emperor's Palace.

- The Emperor could never have bested Horus had not the blade of Sanguinius wrought a chink in the Warmaster's armor.

 

Other points of note:

 

- No one knows why or how the Blood Angels Chapter has access to enough Land Raiders to serve as line transports.

- There are 21 Sanguinary Priests and 29 Sanguinary Guard in the entire Chapter.

- We have a total of 43(!) Land Raiders and 51(!!) Stormraven Gunships. In fact, we have more Land Raiders than we have Predators and Baal Predators combined!

- The Blood Angels see the entire Imperium of Mankind as their responsibility, rather than just a single star system. That means the Chapter is frequently spread thinly, which somewhat explains the high attrition rates of the Chapter.

- Dante sent 3 Companies of Blood Angels to assist Calgar in moping up the eastern sector of Ultramar, during the Tyranid invasion of that sector.

- 41 Dreadnoughts successfully defended the Fortress Monastery on Baal when some random Orks foolishly tried to invade the planet with 3 Space Hulks.

- Seth's first act as Chapter Master was to repair relationships between the Flesh Tearers and the Blood Angels. The man earned my respect for being an enlightened leader.

- The Sanguinary Guard and the Grey Knights join forces to kick the Bloodthirster Ka'Bandah's butt back into the warp. Sounds like an epic battle that is just begging to be reenacted on the tabletop!

- Remember the Necron World Engine battle detailed in Codex Space Marines? It is the Blood Angels who first suggested setting a permanent shrine to the Astral Knights on the planet of Safehold.

- 2nd Battle of Armageddon. It is confirmed in the Codex that Tu'Shan of the Salamanders and Calgar of the Ultramarines tell Dante "Yes, you are in fact the boss of us." Glorious victory.

- Mephiston is uber-superhuman. In a Nid invasion, he tears a Carnifex apart with his bare hands, holds the entrance to a strategic objective alone against Nid hordes for 6 hours, and then strolls through the Nid army to kill the Hive Tyrant and his bodyguard before deciding to take a break after being attacked by a Trygon. Pure insanity.

- In the current timeline, Baal is under imminent invasion from a tendril of Hive Fleet Leviathan and the daemonic hordes of Bloodthirster Ka'Bandah. Dante gathers all Blood Angels forces back to Baal and issues a call to all Blood Angels successors chapters for assistance. All successor chapters except the Lamentors responded, and it is said that this could be the final battle of the Sons of Sanguinius.

 

That's all I can recall for now. Seriously, this Codex is everything we wished for, and more. All hail the Blood Angels and Sanguinius!

 

Except that, per the rules, a Hive Tyrant with bodyguard would annihilate Mephiston. No armor saves against the Bonesword, striking at I1 due to Lash Whip, and the Tyrant can't be picked out for wound allocation when Mephy gets to hit back (if he survives, that is), because the Tyrant is not an Independent Character.

 

Stupid fluff.

 

I love the Sanguinius bits though!

 

To the Necrons vs. Tyranids bit:

 

But if the Tyranids consumed everything in the galaxy, there'd be no souls for the Necrons to steal or convert. As the Tyranids are simply mindless flora working under a consciousness that isn't impacted by the Warp or anything else, the Necrons would hate having them around and vice versa.

 

It would be an emo-depressed galaxy filled with ritual suicide.

[Plague Angel]

* The Blood Knights. A BA successor that went renegade but still fights for the Emperor (Soul Drinkers?). And apparently they answered Dante's call for reinforcements. Why in the world would Dante petition a renegade chapter?

Maybe he doesn't feel their renegade status was deserved and feels the Blood Angels standing in the Imperium is sufficient to protect it against any potential retribution from consorting with them.

Or maybe Dante's call for reinforcements was a general call that said "all Blood Angels successors loyal to the Emperor, come help!" and the Blood Knights heard about it and said "hey, that's us..."

 

 

I also, I don't know why people are claiming the Lamenters are no longer "cured, but unlucky." They still are, according to the successors page. Though you could conceivably include DC in a Lamenters army, which would be odd, you could do that in the .PDF too.

[Heru]

Does Codex Blood Angels have the same "Legion & 2nd Founding" list that Codex Space Marines (page 8), and Codex Dark Angels (page 73) have?

[Vodunius]

Does Codex Blood Angels have the same "Legion & 2nd Founding" list that Codex Space Marines (page 8), and Codex Dark Angels (page 73) have?

 

Specifically: does it still list the Blood Drinkers under the Second Founding column, and if so does it have the same footnote regarding the Second Founding column.

[igotsmeakabob!!]

Only the "most famous of the Blood Angels' successors, but this list is by no means complete."

 

Listed eradicated chapters were:

Knights Sanguine, consumed by war.

Exsanguinators and Flesh Eaters were undone by their geneseed.

 

Other chapters whose names and traditions suggest Blood Angels origins, but they have not claimed BA origins. The two mentioned are Blood Swords and Blood Ravens.

 

Officially listed successors (they get a paragraph) are Flesh Tearers(2nd founding), Angels Sanguine (2nd), Angels Vermillion (2nd), Blood Drinkers (unknown), Angels Encarmine (2nd), Lamenters (21st), and Knights of Blood (unknown).

[Whitefireinferno]

GOD DAMMIT THE BLOOD RAVENS ARE NOT BA SUCCESSORS!!!!!

Just because their name has the word "blood" dont make them one of ours if anything there demi-loyalist Tsons.

 

also what traditions do the Blood Ravens have that resemble BA? Not a great deal at all right.

[Plague Angel]

The only other similarity the Blood Ravens have with us is that we now have lots and lots of psykers, apparently. And now that the codex specifically says the Blood Ravens are not Blood Angels successors, no one will ever make that mistake again, right? Right?

[igotsmeakabob!!]

The only other similarity the Blood Ravens have with us is that we now have lots and lots of psykers, apparently. And now that the codex specifically says the Blood Ravens are not Blood Angels successors, no one will ever make that mistake again, right? Right?

Actually, our codex mentions them. I'm not sure if I can quote, but..

"There are other surviving chapters who names and traditions would suggest a connection with the Blood Angels - the Blood Swords and Blood Ravens amongst them - but these chapters do not claim Sanguinius' lineage, truthfully or otherwise."

 

Basically, it says that they're a possibility. They haven't had proof to lay claim, but there's some connection.

 

Blood Ravens = Thousand Sons forever, though.

[Meracalis]

There's actually flavor text on an item in the Dawn of War II campaign confirming Blood Ravens are not Blood Angel successors. Normally, I wouldn't cite DoW as a reference, but considering that Blood Ravens were created solely for the DoW series, I think it flies.

[WGXH]

There's actually flavor text on an item in the Dawn of War II campaign confirming Blood Ravens are not Blood Angel successors. Normally, I wouldn't cite DoW as a reference, but considering that Blood Ravens were created solely for the DoW series, I think it flies.

 

http://img169.imageshack.us/img169/2778/bloodangelravens.jpg

 

I liked the idea of them as Loyalist Thousand Sons myself.

[JamesI]

Ok, lets end the Blood Raven discussion. They are not successors of the Blood Angels, any fluff discussion for the Ravens should go to Index Astartes.

[Bane of Angels]

The bit I'm most miffed about is that the Sin of Damnation was such a massive part of their history leaving the chapter on the brink of extinction yet the only mention is one line in the Terminators description page.

 

I'm not really a fan of the angels vs daemons approach that the dex has taken either, the Gehenna campaign is just daft as well and I don't like the whole final battle for Baal thing either. The Mephiston and Sanguinator stuff really isn't really my thing so on the whole I haven't really gained a lot from the new background material. :(

 

Luckily I'm doing my own Successor chapter so the background material isn't so important from my point of view.

 

Needless to say my guys won't be answering Dante's cry for assistance any time soon. :P

[BrotherMoses]

The bit I'm most miffed about is that the Sin of Damnation was such a massive part of their history leaving the chapter on the brink of extinction yet the only mention is one line in the Terminators description page.

 

I think this has been widely misread. I believe that the booklet says that of those who went into the Sin of Damnation, only 50 survived not 50 of the entire chapter. It just makes more sense.

[redthirst]

Hate to go way off the BA topic, but I thought I'd throw this out there: if I remember correctly, in the HH novel "A Thousand Sons" when Arhiman (or however you spell his name) had a vision of the future of the Thousand Sons it mentions him seeing death, destruction, and a bloody raven... I think that pretty well seals the deal on the origins of the Blood Ravens.

[Bane of Angels]

The bit I'm most miffed about is that the Sin of Damnation was such a massive part of their history leaving the chapter on the brink of extinction yet the only mention is one line in the Terminators description page.

 

I think this has been widely misread. I believe that the booklet says that of those who went into the Sin of Damnation, only 50 survived not 50 of the entire chapter. It just makes more sense.

 

No this goes all the way back to first edition Space Hulk and is mentioned in the third edition, they lost nine hundred and fifty marines in the original boarding action.