The Marines Exemplar

[Captain Apollo]

what would be the regular company composition? i never really liked the whole first company aid idea and i heard about this from a friend, i kinda made my first squad a veteren squad in terminator armor, also about the company colorations, i was just thinking that though their color scheme is by far my most favorite, it would be pretty bland of the chapter to have no distinctive coloration or company seal or symbol to adorn on their armor, that is one thing that i like about the ultramarines is that you always know which company you are fighting based on their shoulders

[Argon]

The thing with zeal is that too much isn't a good thing. After a certain point, the Exemplars would more or less be Black Templars by another name. You really can't be more zealous than the Templars to begin with. The only people more zealous than they are would be the Word Bearers, and we obviously don't want any comparisons to them, do we?

Well, I think there's a bit more to BT than just their zeal... Anyway, I just wanted to stress my point that I thought them to be quite rigid in their interpretation of faith.

 

Well, yeah. There's a reason they've got their own Codex, after all.

 

Rigid faith would certainly work. Let's go with that.

 

Their piety would show in their organization with the extra chaplains, I think, so we've got that covered. Daily rituals are a fact of life for all Space Marines, so that's out of the way as well.

Just started to flesh them out a bit more, that's all. Of course the additional chaplains would be the most obvious element to show.

 

Space Marines pray something like two or three times a day. It's in the 3rd Ed Codex, which isn't where I am right now. As soon as I can get it, I'll look it up.

 

Anyways, if they're an especially pious chapter, perhaps they'd allocate longer portions of the day to prayer?

 

I'm assuming that by the "true path" you mean the guidelines of the Codex Astartes. Rigid adherance to the Codex would tie in quite nicely to Guilliman's gene-seed (or Dorn's, even).

Whatever we decide the true path is. Technically, Exemplars are a Codex chapter, right? That'd mean they'd indeed adhere to the Codex very strictly.

 

How to Paint Space Marines indicates they're a codex chapter. However, just because you're a codex chapter doesn't mean you follow it to the letter. The Ultramarines themselves generally follow the Codex as intended, not as exactly written. My Oblivion Knights, at one point, followed the Codex as a set of suggestions and guidelines rather than a holy tome of war (What? I was young and foolish).

 

Honestly, I'd think they'd consider their entire chapter cult to be the "true path".

 

 

 

what would be the regular company composition? i never really liked the whole first company aid idea and i heard about this from a friend, i kinda made my first squad a veteren squad in terminator armor, also about the company colorations, i was just thinking that though their color scheme is by far my most favorite, it would be pretty bland of the chapter to have no distinctive coloration or company seal or symbol to adorn on their armor, that is one thing that i like about the ultramarines is that you always know which company you are fighting based on their shoulders

 

Erm....company color on the shoulder trim is standard. If you're doing 2rd Company, you paint the shoulder trim gold. If you're doing 3rd Company, you paint it red. Heck, that's why I'm doing the 3rd in the first place.

[Lord Tybault]

Space Marines pray something like two or three times a day. It's in the 3rd Ed Codex, which isn't where I am right now. As soon as I can get it, I'll look it up.

 

Anyways, if they're an especially pious chapter, perhaps they'd allocate longer portions of the day to prayer?

Yup, three times a day is standard for "ordinary" Astartes. Larger portions of the day or simply more often seems more adequate.

 

How to Paint Space Marines indicates they're a codex chapter. However, just because you're a codex chapter doesn't mean you follow it to the letter. The Ultramarines themselves generally follow the Codex as intended, not as exactly written. My Oblivion Knights, at one point, followed the Codex as a set of suggestions and guidelines rather than a holy tome of war (What? I was young and foolish).

Well, if I look at the Ultramarines novels we get a more extreme picture - a Captain(!) gets expelled from the chapter and sent on a Death oath for nor obeying the Codex right down to the last letter. Now I know the novels might not be exactly "fluff", but that's how I'd pictured a standard Ultramarine - what would make them so special if even they didn't follow the Codex very strictly?

 

Erm....company color on the shoulder trim is standard. If you're doing 2rd Company, you paint the shoulder trim gold. If you're doing 3rd Company, you paint it red. Heck, that's why I'm doing the 3rd in the first place.

Personally I think denoting company with shoulder trim would destroy the coolness of the color scheme - which is why I don't do it. I figured company affiliation is a Roman numeral, though I do paint squad numbers on the right shoulder pad and company number on the left knee pad for variety. We could aslo use standard Codex company markings on the kneepad but I'm VERY opposed to the notion of having company shown with shoulder trim. Ii just doesn't feel right.

[Argon]

Space Marines pray something like two or three times a day. It's in the 3rd Ed Codex, which isn't where I am right now. As soon as I can get it, I'll look it up.

 

Anyways, if they're an especially pious chapter, perhaps they'd allocate longer portions of the day to prayer?

Yup, three times a day is standard for "ordinary" Astartes. Larger portions of the day or simply more often seems more adequate.

 

I personally think that spending longer times in prayer would be slightly better than praying more often. You could pray twenty times a day, but it wouldn't really count for much if your heart isn't in it.

 

 

How to Paint Space Marines indicates they're a codex chapter. However, just because you're a codex chapter doesn't mean you follow it to the letter. The Ultramarines themselves generally follow the Codex as intended, not as exactly written. My Oblivion Knights, at one point, followed the Codex as a set of suggestions and guidelines rather than a holy tome of war (What? I was young and foolish).

Well, if I look at the Ultramarines novels we get a more extreme picture - a Captain(!) gets expelled from the chapter and sent on a Death oath for not obeying the Codex right down to the last letter. Now I know the novels might not be exactly "fluff", but that's how I'd pictured a standard Ultramarine - what would make them so special if even they didn't follow the Codex very strictly?

 

Well, there are some chapters that follow the Codex to the letter, like the Black Consuls. Then we have chapters like the Salamanders, which are organized in a manner not entirely unlike the Codex. There's a quote by the great Commisar Molotov that explains this perfectly:

 

Have you ever been caught in a rules debate here on the B+C? Someone will drag up "Rules as Written" and someone else will talk about "Rules as Intended"? To me, the Black Consuls are completely, utterly, 'Roboute as Written', and would have no time for 'Roboute as Intended'. Think about when the Ultramarines realised they had no tactics to fight the Tyranids, because Roboute hadn't written about Tyranids. They realised that Roboute had advocated adapting. They had to innovate to beat a previously unknown threat. To the Black Consuls, everything of any tactical worth can be found in the pages of the Codex. Roboute knows all. Anything of any worth and wisdom is within the Codex Astartes. The Codex would be their holy book, and they might take a dim view of people trying to add to it. They would have a 'pure' version of the Codex, a copy from Roboute's original, perhaps.

 

Uriel Ventris is a complicated case that brings up all sorts of issues with how canon Black Library is. Unless you want to get mired in that eternal debate, I'd suggest we ignore that. Honestly, how Codex the Exemplars are would fall under the Organization section more than anything.

 

 

Erm....company color on the shoulder trim is standard. If you're doing 2rd Company, you paint the shoulder trim gold. If you're doing 3rd Company, you paint it red. Heck, that's why I'm doing the 3rd in the first place.

Personally I think denoting company with shoulder trim would destroy the coolness of the color scheme - which is why I don't do it. I figured company affiliation is a Roman numeral, though I do paint squad numbers on the right shoulder pad and company number on the left knee pad for variety. We could aslo use standard Codex company markings on the kneepad but I'm VERY opposed to the notion of having company shown with shoulder trim. Ii just doesn't feel right.

 

One of the lovely things about the Codex Astartes is that it gives us some options.

[Lord Tybault]

I personally think that spending longer times in prayer would be slightly better than praying more often. You could pray twenty times a day, but it wouldn't really count for much if your heart isn't in it.

Sadly, that is very true. Though I assume that lengths of the different daily rituals would vary individually and from chapter to chapter anyway. Therefore I'd change thee manner of the rituals insofar that personal free time is usually spent in contemplation and not spending free time with more prayers is very frowned upon, although older brothers might see more leniency. Very strict religious obeysance would be mandatory for aspirants, though, and every infraction would be dealt with severly.

 

Well, there are some chapters that follow the Codex to the letter, like the Black Consuls. Then we have chapters like the Salamanders, which are organized in a manner not entirely unlike the Codex. There's a quote by the great Commisar Molotov that explains this perfectly:

Interesting. Never knew that. Either way the Codex also advocated the use of camouflage which is generally disregarded by almost everyone nowadays and considered not being part of the official fluff anymore. Which only shows that even those that write fluff are essentially interpeters of waht came before and of what they picture to be correct.

 

Uriel Ventris is a complicated case that brings up all sorts of issues with how canon Black Library is. Unless you want to get mired in that eternal debate, I'd suggest we ignore that. Honestly, how Codex the Exemplars are would fall under the Organization section more than anything.

True. But since it came up I decided to answer directly rather than to ignore Apollo's post and have it forgotten. Further discussions once we get to that.

 

One of the lovely things about the Codex Astartes is that it gives us some options.

Like i said: We're all just interpretors, nothing more. I'm pretty sure even the 'Insignium' got a few details wrong which I pointed out to friends a while ago (though I admit my standard is the 2nd Ed. 'Codex Ultramarines').

[Captain Apollo]

where do you guys find these cool articles! lol anyway i understand about the shoulder trim, it was just an idea, and i went on to the SM painter and the only real cool looking trim would be black, doesn't really help or distinguish if there is only one cool trim, also im looking for a cool chaplain to make special conversions to but i dont want a generic chaplain, is there any source other than Forge World and GW that produces and sells cool special characters?

[Captain Apollo]

guys still there?

[Shinzaren]

The majority of information comes from 3 sources:

1.) The Core Rulebook of each edition, as well as the accompanying Codexes for each edition. In these you find modeling ideas, tons of backround and fluff, as well as the rules and sources for all game related areas.

2.) White Dwarf magazine and it's accompanying articles. These list IAs, fluff for new characters, campaigns, etc etc. As well as giving modeling ideas and general hobby help.

3.) The Black Library. This is the name of the GW owned publishing company which handles all the novels pertaining to both the 40k and Fantasy universes.

 

The first two are generally considered Canon, with the latest editions being more Canon than older ones in the event of conflicts between editions. The third is far more debatable, as varying authors take varying degrees of liberty with established fluff. Most generally, the best method of establishing fluff and backround is to use the first two sources, and then corroborate them with the 3rd if possible. Because novels are invariably something are liked and disliked in equal measure, what you believe is a great idea will something another man hates. This is why it is such a sub-par form of Canon literature.

[Lord Tybault]

where do you guys find these cool articles!

Check the Librarium - there's all kinds of useful stuff in there. Another option is to get all official GW publications (including rulebooks and WDs) from the beginning until now. Then you'll have everything you need...

 

lol anyway i understand about the shoulder trim, it was just an idea, and i went on to the SM painter and the only real cool looking trim would be black, doesn't really help or distinguish if there is only one cool trim, also im looking for a cool chaplain to make special conversions to but i dont want a generic chaplain, is there any source other than Forge World and GW that produces and sells cool special characters?

To my knowledge there is no other company selling this kind of SF miniatures (for obvious reasons), although you could take a look at http://sciborminiatures.com/ - maybe you'll find something there. But what's the problem with the standard GW miniatures anyway?

[Captain Apollo]

see i dont actually play, my passion is in the modeling painting back stories and novels, i just want my own battle company to look awesome so i dont pay much attention to points or the rules of the game when i build my marines, my army is completely for show and for the act of making them, any way since my army isnt actually going to be used and since i just love modeling, i want every guy to be unique but still holding the general concept of what role they are playing in my army, i still want my chaplains to have skull helmets, my terminators to have power fists and so on, i just want them to not look like the generic GW models, so i usually take pieces off of other models from other modeling companies for different models from my child hood and put them on my army, i also cut limbs apart and put them back together in the manner i want them to be because each chapter has it's own feel and sometimes i feel the stances and positions of the models dont reflect the feeling i want them to have, like the exemplars to me have a more menacing and reserved tone yet have an underlying ferocity that would utterly devastate and destroy any enemy they came across, that is why my officers and sergeants never hold up their swords or power weapons in the air screaming like many do, if they do they are walking with their head down with a menacing look on their helmets and faces.

[Captain Apollo]

for example im inspired by this picture and want my company captain to relfect this same feel http://drachels.files.wordpress.com/2009/09/deathwatch_captain_wip_15.jpghttp://drachels.files.wordpress.com/2009/09/deathwatch_captain_wip_17.jpg

[Ecritter]

I've actually never had the chance to play either. I write because I love to write and love the 40k verse.

[Shinzaren]

I would a make a suggestion Apollo: If you would like to have more questioned answered, and show what you would like to do, I suggest starting a new thread. This is the IA thread for Agron's chapter, and not the best place to discuss this. If you have an idea for your own chapter and need help nailing stuff down, start a new thread in this forum explaining your goals and what you need. If you have gameplay or modeling questions, they each have their respective forums.

[Captain Apollo]

srry dude kinda got carried away, any way i also am an exemplars guy and i love the stories, wont happen again i promiss

[Captain Apollo]

any way back onto the track of the Exemplars, should we try to include how we think the Mythos Angelica Mortis would affect the chapter?

[Argon]

I would a make a suggestion Apollo: If you would like to have more questioned answered, and show what you would like to do, I suggest starting a new thread. This is the IA thread for Agron's chapter, and not the best place to discuss this. If you have an idea for your own chapter and need help nailing stuff down, start a new thread in this forum explaining your goals and what you need. If you have gameplay or modeling questions, they each have their respective forums.

 

This isn't for "my" chapter. This is for all board members interested in the Marines Exemplar to collaborate on an Index Astartes for them. It just so happens I made the thread.

 

 

any way back onto the track of the Exemplars, should we try to include how we think the Mythos Angelica Mortis would affect the chapter?

 

As I interpret it, it's simply a history book. It wouldn't really have any effect on the chapter.

[Lord Tybault]

This isn't for "my" chapter. This is for all board members interested in the Marines Exemplar to collaborate on an Index Astartes for them. It just so happens I made the thread.

I guess I had some part in getting the ball properly rolling, too. :)

 

 

As I interpret it, it's simply a history book. It wouldn't really have any effect on the chapter.

My impression as well. The book simply lists all of the original Astartes Praeses chapters (which COULD mean that some have been destroyed) but nothing else. No one ever bothered to go into more details about either the book or the Praeses chapters. What do you think the book is, Apollo?

[Captain Apollo]

i was just thinking about the mystery behind it and that it could be an amendment or volume to the Codex Astartes explaining (not in full) the eye of terror and chaos and the precautions that should be taken to defend the cadian gate, also if you notice that many of the "Well known" chapter home worlds actually surround the eye, this maybe some sort of defense layer with the Astartes Preases as some sort of fail safe if those are breached as a final line of front line defence before the inperium must resort to tactical retreats, srry when i saw the home worlds of the Space marines and imperial guard that are surrounding the eye my military college training kicked in and i saw a perfect defense layer, the only thing missing was support, which could be why necris is so far away from the eye, they want to ensure that no home world of their reinforcements get tainted so they can have a never ending amount of troops to cover the backs of the front line worlds

[Argon]

i was just thinking about the mystery behind it and that it could be an amendment or volume to the Codex Astartes explaining (not in full) the eye of terror and chaos and the precautions that should be taken to defend the cadian gate, also if you notice that many of the "Well known" chapter home worlds actually surround the eye, this maybe some sort of defense layer with the Astartes Preases as some sort of fail safe if those are breached as a final line of front line defence before the inperium must resort to tactical retreats, sorry when i saw the home worlds of the Space marines and imperial guard that are surrounding the eye my military college training kicked in and i saw a perfect defense layer, the only thing missing was support, which could be why necris is so far away from the eye, they want to ensure that no home world of their reinforcements get tainted so they can have a never ending amount of troops to cover the backs of the front line worlds

 

The thing about the Astartes Praeses is that what little information we have on them is a real mess. They were apparently created after the Great Scouring, which makes them 4th Founding at the latest. The Marines Exemplar, Subjugators, and White Consuls chapters are all named as being part of the Praeses, but their respective homeworlds are nowhere near the Eye of Terror. The Relictors are also named as being part of the Praeses, but they were declared Excommunicate Traitoris, but whether or not they currently are is debatable. The map of forces around the Eye in the current Codex: Space Marines shows a number of chapters that aren't part of the Astartes Praeses, and IIRC none that are. Granted, there's a number of explainations for that.

 

Basically, Lord Tybault and I decided a while ago that we're just going to focus on the Marines Exemplar, not the entire Astartes Praeses.

 

 

This isn't for "my" chapter. This is for all board members interested in the Marines Exemplar to collaborate on an Index Astartes for them. It just so happens I made the thread.

I guess I had some part in getting the ball properly rolling, too. :)

 

Eh, maybe a little. :P

 

 

So, do we have any ideas for what their beliefs are other than "really pious"?

[Lord Tybault]

Eh, maybe a little. :)

Yeah, I like to have delusions of grandeur from time to time.

 

 

So, do we have any ideas for what their beliefs are other than "really pious"?

I have painted my models with every brother carrying numerous litanies on his armor: at least a personal litany and a "combat litany" taken from the chapter's holy writings to ward against Chaos. Does that fit into "Beliefs"?

 

Oh, and Apollo: It'd REALLY help if you used proper interpunction from time to time and made breaks here and there. Currently it's very tough to actually read what you're writing. Thanks.

[Argon]

Eh, maybe a little. ^_^

Yeah, I like to have delusions of grandeur from time to time.

 

It happens to the best of us ;)

 

So, do we have any ideas for what their beliefs are other than "really pious"?

I have painted my models with every brother carrying numerous litanies on his armor: at least a personal litany and a "combat litany" taken from the chapter's holy writings to ward against Chaos. Does that fit into "Beliefs"?

 

Probably. If anything, though, I'd say it's an extension of their piety.

 

Honestly, it seems like piety is their biggest thing. Perhaps we should just examine how it affects them.

 

Oh, and Apollo: It'd REALLY help if you used proper punctuation from time to time and made breaks here and there. Currently it's very tough to actually read what you're writing. Thanks.

 

Muphry strikes again.

[Lord Tybault]

Probably. If anything, though, I'd say it's an extension of their piety.

 

Honestly, it seems like piety is their biggest thing. Perhaps we should just examine how it affects them.

Fair enough. Any deviations would be very unlikely anyway. And I think we'll find a few more things along the way.

 

 

Muphry strikes again.

I still believe I'm doing pretty well for a non-native speaker. And I always got a low score for technical terms in school. :geek:

[Argon]

Probably. If anything, though, I'd say it's an extension of their piety.

 

Honestly, it seems like piety is their biggest thing. Perhaps we should just examine how it affects them.

Fair enough. Any deviations would be very unlikely anyway. And I think we'll find a few more things along the way.

 

 

 

 

 

Muphry strikes again.

I still believe I'm doing pretty well for a non-native speaker. And I always got a low score for technical terms in school. ;)

 

You are quite good at English for a non-native speaker. I was just pointing out the error you made in your request for Apollo to use proper spelling and grammar. :P

[Octavulg]

Any hope of you posting a summation of what you've got so far? It's rather disjointed at the moment.

[Captain Apollo]

have you read it all?