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Hints of a New Model

Guroff

By Guroff
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Saphos Battle-Brother

Saphos

Posted
Posted

Are scratchbuilt SR really illegal? Don't know about that as I don't play official tournaments but I wonder why. Other armies like Orks are fine with their conversions too, aren't they? Most SR, although I don't like them most of the time, seem okay to me compared to the official one. You just measure to and from the base for the important stuff anyways and the models being larger then the official one most of the time seems hardly like a problem to me. Making them an even bigger target. ^^

 

The Deamon Prince kit has wings though.

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Redo Battle-Brother

Redo

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Posted
I still prefer this one:

http://i290.photobucket.com/albums/ll275/RedFury77/40k/stormraven13c.jpg

 

Although I never liked how huge it looks, it looks better.

 

 

I agree with you. Yes it is a little too big but the wings look aggressive and the machine looks assaulty. The actual (leaked) model looks a little ponderous, not sleek enough and the wings look reaaly fragile with the over the engline wrap/concept thing. Not so impressed overall.

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Freakiq Venerable Brother

Freakiq

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you mean like a DP that we had to wait for 2 years and it still doesnt have wings ?

 

The new Daemon Prince does include wings.

 

imagine GW making a new rhino class model [lets say the entry in the BA dex says Baal patern rhino and not rhino] , the new one has different size [hell it may even look cool] and now all of the sudden every BA player has to buy 3-4 rhinos , everyone who used BA counts as has to rebuild their rhinos etc. You think people would like that ?

 

They've already done this before.

 

The old Rino chassis is still legal and frequently used in GW Tournaments.

A new model does not invalidate the old version.

 

 

 

Check your facts before posting

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Chairman_woo Battle-Brother

Chairman_woo

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Getting the quites function to work how I wanted was being a nightmare unfortunateley so I have emboldened your posts to make it clear whats me and whats you.

 

 

you mean like a DP that we had to wait for 2 years and it still doesnt have wings ? There is no such thing as "everyone knew it was coming" with GW . PMs are the main stay of the chaos dex , they still dont have new models . As the underwhelming part goes . Well If someone wants to play an alfa strike build , the a storm raven is a viable option . If it wasnt viable people would not convert them out of valks[and GW wouldnt make a legal model for it, because stuff that does not sell does not get new models after the first wave]

 

Chaos are a consistently low selling army, they are very rarely a priority, you may not like that as a chaos player or whatever but thats how it works, and no ammount of whineing will make a difference unless GW feels their sales suffer. PM are the mainstay of the dex to competitive players perhaps, but that is a relativeley narrow part of their market & it will always be in GW's interest to please the most people for most of the time. Plague marine moddels are far from the worst at the moment anyway.

 

 

I asked it which opinion do you want[by the way I do not play BAs outside of test games] . for GW as company it makes sense , for gamers it does not. It is not a rhino , its not something everyone needs , its a model that is used in a handful of builds and that is all. I doubt that are many players who already own a storm , that are happy that now they will have to buy 2 extra ones just to make their armies legal again [with at the same time having 0 chance to selll the storms they have now].

 

Its also a moddel that a huge number of people have wanted for a great many years. There is a massive buzz about this moddel/unit wether you like it or not! Just because you think of the game in competitive/forum terms does not mean the hoardes of casual/inexpereinced players who bring in most of GW's cash think the same way. Your "players position" is massiveley biased towards your own feelings, not all of us think only in terms of optimal lists!

 

 

for what army ? ask nid or chaos players what they think about new dexs. + it is your personal opinion am talking here about how sales work . People dislike changing whole army set ups after the first wave , no one wants to pay twice in the same edition for the identical army just because GW decides it is "cool" to make a new model . imagine GW making a new rhino class model [lets say the entry in the BA dex says Baal patern rhino and not rhino] , the new one has different size [hell it may even look cool] and now all of the sudden every BA player has to buy 3-4 rhinos , everyone who used BA counts as has to rebuild their rhinos etc. You think people would like that ?

 

Funny you mention that because I'm a long term nid player (2nd ed) and have done my fair share of chaos moddels over the years. Every new codex brings new units & changes the dynamic of the army meaning you need to change alot of stuff. This I enjoy, after having an army for thr 3-5 years or so most armies seem to wait for new codexes I look forwards to things being mixed up, needing to paint up new squads etc. and generally to be able to enjoy the proscess of getting to know a new codex all over again. But regardless of how either of us feel, this is how GW does things. Their buisness moddel is reliant on the never ending cycle of new moddels and rules.

 

 

only there is 0 new tactics for storm raven using lists , 0 new army lists for BA players with the storm model coming. Just more cash spent for people who would want to use the armies they already used with the 5th ed dex.

and if your talking about EC , then the EC players droped from 3 different main list mecha/syren build/demon bomb out of which at least 2 were top tier to 1 list which isnt even tier 2 .

 

Yeh the storm raven is cleary just like every marine vehicle ever and plays in exactly the same way. It doesent have special rules marines have never had ascess to before and in no way provides a new appreach to doing anything.

 

models you paid for become illegal , if you want to use the same list you need to buy more models , there is 0 ways to sell the converted storm [bAs need the new ones and for IG they are useless because of different weapon options , sometimes size ] . how is that different ?

 

How is that different from any other conversion? I mean its not like people use custom conversion jobs for units that already have an official model is it? Where exactly does it say you cant use conversion if the model exists anyway? I still see plenty of custom speeder storms, old pattern rhino's etc. and it has never been a problem even at tourneys. If your conversion is any good then it shouldent matter that theres an official version, the love you put into something dosent go away just because someone else also made one, and if it looked cool before it will still look cool after!

 

 

The storm raven has never had an official moddel or even a picture, so I dont see how you can possibly have a problem with GW's approach here unless they'd said "convert your own as we arnt going to do a moddel".

ok am missing something here . and what does this have to do with the fact that unless you work for GW you most of the time dont want to buy the same models over and over again in the same edition ?

 

You dont have to buy the new raven moddel any more than you have the repalce your 2nd ed rhinos with the new ones. And regardless there IS NOT AN EXISTING STORMRAVEN MODDEL ANYWAY! Just because you made your own version of something because you lacked the patience to wait or simply wanted to indulge your own creativity does not mean that is any fault of GW's, they dident tell you to make one at any point. Nor are they going to make you stop using your lovingly converted Raven moddel! The rules are somewhat ambiguous in this just like they are for Base sizes, and anyplayer with half a brain can work around the problem (unless you have blatantly converted to get an advantage by making it tiny or something). I have some sympathy when a new codex makes half your army useless (Nids took this hard recently), but thats another issue and is arguably necessary especially for high risk releases like nids or DE or chaos to make most of their money on release by driving up hype and the need for even vet players to buy some new stuff, if GW cant make a decent profit you dont get a release its as simple as that. This however is different because this does not and never has had an official moddel as I stated before.

 

 

At the end of the day GW sells models, that is what GW does. This is a hotly anticipated model that will almost certainly sell like hotcakes; it being a marine vehicle and all, especially if GW makes them avalible to all Marine chapters (which they would be complete idiots not to do). I would argue that players on the whole are/will be much better off for this being released, people willing and capable of doing decent conversions are few and far between. The only people who might loose out are people who either dont like their raven conversions enough to stick with them, or people who are too bloodyminded to treat the rules as anything but RAW (Not that RAW the rules support your position anyway, you appear to have taken some local tradition in tourneys or playgroups as a categorical rule, that seems to carry little weight in the wider world.)

 

 

It just seems to me like your disquiet on this issue has alot more to do with your own expectations and desires than "reality". I dont mean to come across as rude but I have increacingly little patience these days for Veteren players who still seem to think thay are anything other than a walking wallet to GW, or that GW somehow owes them something. GW has ALWAYS been like this & they were even bigger :cusss back in the day, just go ask any serious role-players about the "holocaust" of non GW hobby/RPG shops lol. We love them because they produce awsome minatures; their rules and ethics have never been their strongest suit however.

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Brother-Captain Devlonir Veteran

Brother-Captain Devlonir

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Posted
At the end of the day GW sells models, that is what GW does.

 

This.. How much invested in Games Workshop into Organized Play as other game companies are?

GW is a hobby shop, selling models and books to play a game with their models. The Organized Play part is mostly left to other people, groups and/or companies as far as I know.

 

Having came from a game where UpperDeck was deeply involved into organized play, I really notice more how hands-off GW is in tournaments for their own game. Tournament rules like WYSIWYG and what counts for it don't matter to them. Heck, they even promote converting and creativity with all their multi-part plastic boxes these days!

 

So, if you complain about your SR conversion no longer being available for local tournaments.. complain at those that can do something about it: Your tournament organizers. Do not complain about that fact towards Games Workshop.

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Chairman_woo Battle-Brother

Chairman_woo

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Jeez. Can't everyone just stop whining?

I don't like it, some people agree with me.

Some people like it, I don't agree with them.

We can't solve anything here guys. Stop this ranting.

 

 

Yeh you are right dude, people (very much including myself) are getting a bit to emotionally invested in one picture.

 

Its incredible how strong an oppinion people can form based on almost 0 information, but I suspect as with just about everything like this its down the the simple truth that oppinion almost always = Ego (including that one). Or rather ones oppinion of something is intrinsicaly linked to your ego, and represents (atleast subconsciously) a portion of yourself. I.E. an attack on ones oppinion is subconsciously an attack on ones personality.

 

This incidentally is why mass media is so unbelevably bad for your health, as not only does it tell you what your oppinion is but your ego/sense of self importance will naturally make you defend said oppionion with vigour because your ego resuses to acknowage the fact that you actually dont know what ur talking about and are infact just regurgitating what someone else told you was the case. Not trying to get on a high horse here mind I'm as guilty as anybody, but it does pay to be aware of these things.

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Morticon Venerable Brother

Morticon

Posted
Posted
ONE PICTURE PEOPLE!!! ONE LEAKED PICTURE FROM ONE (bad) ANGLE!!!

 

Why all the hate? Its like the nipples all over again :( I'm not used to seeing this level of venom on here (very sad panda) :(

 

I tell you why. Because after the model hits the shops any scratch build storm becomes illegal WYSIWG , because of LoS problems.

 

 

Sadly only where you are Jeske.

Most places here will still allow. If im not mistaken, Adepticon et al will allow too.

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Morticon Venerable Brother

Morticon

Posted
Posted

Oh, for those that asked- its already been covered.

 

It looks like a flying brick. Beyond that...

The turret is the biggest gripe for me. Second biggest is how the meltas are mounted ><;

 

It maaay turn out like the Canis model though, in that the model and the chosen picture looked really bad from a certain angle, but actually wasnt all that bad in real life.

Maybe from a different angle it will look better, but im not holding my breath.

 

I MUCH prefer the photoshop edit that was done above.

 

I dont think ive ever looked at a scratch built model of mine and gone "I sooo prefer my own". But..now i do :(

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Morticon Venerable Brother

Morticon

Posted
Posted
It doesn't look like a flying brick at all, Morticon.

 

It looks like a "crashing into the earth immediately upon launch" lump.

 

Completely different. :(

 

 

Quoted for truth!

 

Remember that Dark Eldar Skywar blurb they have in our codex.. ...of how the BA get all the thunderhawks and ravens and go hell for leather into the storm to tackle the DE....

 

I imagined something like the koyote pattern doing that- not this thing.

 

I should add a poll to this thread!

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Chairman_woo Battle-Brother

Chairman_woo

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Posted
It doesn't look like a flying brick at all, Morticon.

 

It looks like a "crashing into the earth immediately upon launch" lump.

 

Completely different. :(

 

 

Quoted for truth!

 

Remember that Dark Eldar Skywar blurb they have in our codex.. ...of how the BA get all the thunderhawks and ravens and go hell for leather into the storm to tackle the DE....

 

I imagined something like the koyote pattern doing that- not this thing.

 

I should add a poll to this thread!

 

 

I might add that the front "pod" thats obscured by 2 marines just to the rights of the sgt. looks alot like an engine housing, you can see the bottom of the landing gear and it seems inset enough to make space for a big thruster like on the wing tips. Futhermore most of the working parts seem to be at the rear & engines are usually by far the heaviest items on an aircraft. Plus the fuselage clearly goes back fuirther than you can see (theres a decent sized grill between the engine intake and the "hump"). I really dont think this is half as unfeasible an aircraft as people are making out. Plus a few ionic fields over the skin of the aircraft and you can direct air downwards in exactly the same way as a wing.

 

To get slightly technical on you lift is not understood to be about pressure differentials like most of you will have been taught. Once you get into high level physics they basically disregard this moddel as over simplistic and instead describe the proscess of lift in terms of newtons 3rd law (every action has an equal and opposite reaction). Its basically the same force at work as the one that pushes back against your bottom when you sit in a chair, or against your finger then you touch a switch etc. So if you charged a surface like the front fuselage to direct the airflow off the bodywork and slighly downwards as it would come off a wing it would produce lift provided the air is flowing off the bodywork and not just around it (if that makes any sense at all). the top surface at the front could produce plenty lift with an ionic field powerfull enough, it would only need to be running during forwards flight as the thing can VTOL.

 

Or as I outlined before Gravidic repulsors & stabilisers could also offset any aerodynamic inneficiencies. This is the 41st millenium! Humans have mastered warp travel, jet bikes/anti grav, plasma/fusion do you really think they would make a attack craft for their most elite and well equiped super soldiers that was reliant on mechanichal lift? Do you have any idea how powerfull the engines alone have to be on Thunderhawks and Ravens to allow them to VTOL and make orbit with the kind of payloads they carry? The shere ammount of energy their power sources have to be capable of producing is colossal and would facilitate all kinds of tricks to keep something in the air, and moreover to make it extremely manouverable.

 

Plus and Ive only just thaught of this but it could be a big one..............................Ravens have to be able to operate in almost any planetary environment! The density of the air of nothing else will vary massively, as will the local gravity, the ammont of Drag etc. etc. Mechanical lift is simply not a good way of dealing with all these problems when you have fusion powered engines and anti grav tech and the like to play with. If hawks and Ravens relied on their wings alone (assuming they could produce enough lift at anything less than 1million MPH) they would be rubbish, and would require at the very least extensive refitting between enviroments, and at worst would be unusuable in some theatres of operation.

 

Besides weve only seen it from one angle, and I'm very confident it will look much more ballanced from other perspectives. The wingspan looks to be about as wide as the fuselage is long, but that viewing angle makes them seem very short. This thing is atleast as big if not bigger than a Valkyrie with the wings to match.

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thundrchickn Veteran

thundrchickn

Posted
Posted
I didnt know anons on the internets where there to help me like or dislike a model...thank you for helping explain that the all mighty internets forums are the ruler that I should use to judge my tastes by thundrchikn

 

i wasn't trying to tell you what/how to think. I'm just making an observation that to me seems fairly interesting. That 1 group of gamers overwhelmingly hate the model (warseer/bols) and another (the BnC BAs) by majority love the model.

 

The release of this pick has put a new list idea in my head using the SR rules but definately not the ugly(my idea on the model and I respect your opinion on the model whether you agree OR disagree) model in this picture.

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DV8 Veteran

DV8

Posted
Posted

I'm noticing a lot of strong reactions to this model, and I'll be honest, I too had some initial misgivings about the model.

 

But please bear with me, I'm going to outline several points that I think may sway people in favor of seeing this model in a more appealing light.

 

http://spacewithinspace.net/images/projectlog/november12_stockstormraven.jpg

 

I've highlighted in yellow the 3 parts of this kit that should not exist. I think they look atrocious on the Storm Raven, and the aesthetics of it makes the Storm Raven's profile almost twice as tall, which gives it a caricature Boeing 747 look to it, almost like something you'd see from the likes of Fisher Price or Mattel or Hasbro.

 

Additionally, you will notice that the model itself is on landing gear, and hence adds extra height that would not normally be visible when the kit is suspended a-la Valkyrie style (re: on a tall flying stand).

 

The width of the model is curiously mysterious, but we can extrapolate a general width based on two factors. The first is that the boarding ramp looks identical to a Rhino's rear access hatch (no puns intended), and the second is the width of the Space Marine bases.. Using the existing width of the Rhino, and eye-balling the perspective of the various extrusions on the hull itself, I would hazard a guess that the base chassis (sans wings) of the model is about 3 1/2 to 4 inches in width. Remove the aforementioned yellow parts above (let us never speak of them again), and the height of the Storm Raven can be estimated to be about 4 to 4 1/2 inches tall. That actually isn't a very large profile.

 

Again using the marine bases as a broad unit of estimate, i would hazard that the wings of the Storm Raven are approximately 4 to 4 1/2 inches in width EACH, giving the Storm Raven a total wing span of anywhere from 11 1/2 inches to about 13 inches in width, which is along the same lines as the Valkyrie.

 

Now reference the following image. I've yoinked Xeorxe's Photoshop'ed image and done further tweaks myself to remove...well remove parts... I've also replaced the barrels of the Heavy Bolter with those of the Lascannon.

 

http://spacewithinspace.net/images/projectlog/november12_modifiedstormraven.jpg

 

I'll be honest. That looks DAMN sexy to me, along the lines of the US Blackbird.

 

EDIT: I should also note that, eyeballing the perspective, the kit looks about as long as it is wide. So it'll have the same proportions as a Valkyrie, only reversed (where the Valkyrie has the wings in the front, the Storm Raven has the wings in the back).

 

 

DV8

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Kinzel Battle-Brother

Kinzel

Posted
Posted

Look I do agree that in the 41st millenium an aircraft that flies mainly using mechanical lift would be so ancient as to be considered techno-heresy but it could be a little sleaker simply to appeal to our 2nd millenium eyes and mindset.

From the 1 pic I've seen so far it just feels a little disjointed to me. Like they just stuck a bunch of parts together and marinified it (now that's a word ;p) by adding layered armour and bulky panels.

I must say I do far prefer the photoshop though.(excellent work on that btw)

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Lord Tharand Veteran

Lord Tharand

Posted
Posted
I like the model a lot. It's basically the ugly duckling to it's bigger brother the thunderhawk swan. Truthfully I had no idea what to expect for a model and to be frank most of the conversation I've seen I haven't really cared for anyway. Now, I just hope it can be used by all armies via a WD article or something.
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