Hemal Posted January 17, 2011 Share Posted January 17, 2011 http://itc.blogs.com/photos/uncategorized/celebration6_2.jpg I reckon that someone was perchance reading our wishlist/read Codex Redemption threads? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/219447-new-faqon-gw-website/page/9/#findComment-2621304 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Interrogator Stobz Posted January 17, 2011 Share Posted January 17, 2011 http://itc.blogs.com/photos/uncategorized/celebration6_2.jpg I reckon that someone was perchance reading our wishlist/read Codex Redemption threads? Nice work if they were <_< Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/219447-new-faqon-gw-website/page/9/#findComment-2621317 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ash Posted January 17, 2011 Share Posted January 17, 2011 Sorry I did not take battle notes My opponent fielded Belial TLC Sammael LS Deathwing TH/SS 3 CF 2 Apoth Banner LRC RW Plasmagun x 2 AB MM RW Meltagun x 2 AB MM RW Meltagun x 2 AB MM RW Meltagun x 2 AB MM LS Typhoon ML LS ML LS typhoon ML I fielded Belial TLC Deathwing CF Asscan 2 TH/SS Apoth TLC Deathwing CF HF TLC TH/SS Banner Devastators 10 3 Plasma Cannons 1 Lascannon Int Chaplain in TDA Tactical Squad Meltagun, ML, Power Weapon, Meltabombs Tactical Squad Plasma Cannon,Plasma Cannon Power Weapon Meltabombs Vendread EA Heavy Flamer Plasma Cannon Ravenwing 2 Meltaguns Power Weapon Attack Bike Meltagun This was a put together list I am on holiday and left the armour behind I got terribly shot up by the typhoons in their first round of shooting, the LSers took out the whole ML squad, they are are very dangerous. The ravenwing struck back with outflank smoking Sammael in his LS The rest of the RW got gunned down but took a few bikes with them The plasma smoked a lot of bikes and LSers but slowly they died to bikes melta and the LRC's machine spirit despite getting a shaken stunned on it. I lost my Dreadnaught to terminators but the plasma and an angry Int chaplain hacked more bikes and termies down. We both got more shot up till I had Belial and squads of DW on both objectives but still lost more troops to those LSer typhoons and bikes plus some bad rolls in combat. What we both learned, Land Speeder Typoons are very dangerous, FNP doesn't work on S8, Outflank with bikes is great we both slammed each other with that. The melta barrage tears PA to bits, Plasma smokes bikes. 2+/Invun 3+ rocks Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/219447-new-faqon-gw-website/page/9/#findComment-2621381 Share on other sites More sharing options...
asmodai650 Posted January 17, 2011 Share Posted January 17, 2011 I'm also play testing this today. Two games, first with my usual 3 raider / 3 squad list but swap out my 2 SB / PF terminators in each squad for two TH / SS guys. THen I'll try another game against the same opponent using all TH / SS and cyclones in each squad, but keeping the raiders. I really don't think an all foot slogging TH / SS army will work unless you take full advantage of deathwing assualt. Even then, if your opponent throws enough shots at those squads they are still going to crumble. I only got one game in on Saturday, and lost. No matter how many or few TH / SS's you have, it doesn't matter unless you play the mission. I didn't get a chance to run the TH / SS spam list, and honestly I dont think it will work all that well. You still have to have some form of support for your squads. After playing that game, I really think Death - Raven list will be more viable especially in lower point games. I also wouldn't count out Greenwing either. The ability to have a fearless army combined with FNP and the weapon updates these guys may walk away the clear winner in the long run. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/219447-new-faqon-gw-website/page/9/#findComment-2621555 Share on other sites More sharing options...
raptor1199 Posted January 17, 2011 Share Posted January 17, 2011 Does it really matter if alot of people bandwagoned to the DA codex? You mean 1000 people all over the world you will never see, and you don't want to play your codex? I think I am missing something. where i play 15-20 count-as deathwing armies that popped up right after faq got released (even proxy orgyrins(?) ;) ) yeah those bandwagoners i don't supposed to see, right? :yuck: Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/219447-new-faqon-gw-website/page/9/#findComment-2621574 Share on other sites More sharing options...
FerociousBeast Posted January 17, 2011 Share Posted January 17, 2011 Since I've been gushing over the FAQ changes and have been advocating various builds that heavily feature the storm shield, I feel the need right now to clarify that I think 3++ storm shields is one of the dumbest ideas to come out of GW in recent years (though there are several other ideas in the latest SM codex that give it a run for its money). It's a fluff retcon; it doesn't make fluff sense*; it fixed an underpowered wargear item by making it overpowered; it raised the power level of the MEQ codexes and therefore mandated that subsequent codexes also have their power level increased; it's one of those items that are so good that everyone takes them, i.e. it's bad for internal balance. GW should have instead made storm shields 3++ in close combat only. That would have improved them to a usable level without overpowering them or making a mockery of the fluff and logic of the item. HOWEVER, woulda, shoulda, coulda, didn't. Since it's the new law of the land, it should apply equally to the Dark Angels, and now that it does, there are some great opportunities to exploit! I will cheer loudly if GW ever goes back and fixes the SS to be 3++, CC-only, but until then, may as well make use of it. *"Ah ha! You thought you could shoot my thunder wolf with your lascannon, did you? You forgot that I'm carrying a SHIELD! Mu ha ha ha!" Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/219447-new-faqon-gw-website/page/9/#findComment-2621609 Share on other sites More sharing options...
waaanial00 Posted January 17, 2011 Share Posted January 17, 2011 Since I've been gushing over the FAQ changes and have been advocating various builds that heavily feature the storm shield, I feel the need right now to clarify that I think 3++ storm shields is one of the dumbest ideas to come out of GW in recent years Been saying it since they changed in the C:SM. It is definitely up there amoungst the bad game moves as it completely changed the assault terminators into a huge threat which then filtered down through to all of the other marine units which can take Storm Shields. Invulnerable saves should be capped at 4+ and made really REALLY rare! Would have made the game a damn sight less overpowered across the board. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/219447-new-faqon-gw-website/page/9/#findComment-2621664 Share on other sites More sharing options...
CoyoteGospel Posted January 17, 2011 Share Posted January 17, 2011 Hello fellow Dark Angels - new to the forum, having recently returned to 40K after a long hiatus (hadn't played since 3rd edition up until a few months back). As with most of you, seeing the FAQ was spectacular news and it had me anxious to retool my army, which (if I can make the necessary changes and paint up a few more minis in time) I plan to use at an 1850 pt tournament near me in a few weeks. Wanted to share this list with everyone that I used to absolutely decimate the Eldar with in a game last night (Annihilation mission, final Kill Points 11-4). HQ - Belial (TH/SS) - 130 pts Troops - Deathwing Command Squad (1 Apothecary w/ SB/PF, 1 Standard Bearer w/ SB/PF, 1 CML w/SB/PF, 1 TLC, 1 TH/SS) - 290 pts Troops - Deathwing Squad (Sgt w/ SB/PW, 1 CML w/ SB/PF, 1 SB/PF, 1 TLC, 1 TH/SS) - 235 pts Troops - Deathwing Squad (Sgt w/ SB/PW, 1 CML w/ SB/PF, 1 SB/PF, 1 TLC, 1 TH/SS) - 235 pts Troops - Deathwing Squad (Sgt w/ SB/PW, 1 CML w/ SB/PF, 1 SB/PF, 1 TLC, 1 TH/SS) - 235 pts Fast Attack - Ravenwing Squad (Sgt w/ PW, 2 w/ Flamers, 4 reg), Attack Bike w/ Multi Melta - 295 pts Fast Attack - Ravenwing Landspeeder (Typhoon Missile Launcher, Heavy Bolter) - 75 pts Fast Attack - Ravenwing Landspeeder (Typhoon Missile Launcher, Heavy Bolter) - 75 pts Heavy Support - Land Raider (Twin-linked lascannon, Twin-linked Heavy Bolter) - 250 pts TOTAL POINTS- 1820 --- Strongly considered fielding the Landspeeders as a squadron, but with limited mobility, I preferred the option of having them be able to go off in separate directions if need be. I think it'll have a tough time against hordes, but 12 missile launcher shots + 3 heavy bolters per turn should be able to cut through ranks pretty quickly. In the game I tested this out against Eldar, between the CML and the LR's lascannons, I was able to cripple his army on the first turn, leaving my opponent scrambling to recover with light weapons that bounced off the deathwing's armor. Anyway, just wanted to share this post-FAQ attempt at an army list. Looking forward to posting on here with some regularity and sharing photos of my army! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/219447-new-faqon-gw-website/page/9/#findComment-2621749 Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamesI Posted January 17, 2011 Share Posted January 17, 2011 Since I've been gushing over the FAQ changes and have been advocating various builds that heavily feature the storm shield, I feel the need right now to clarify that I think 3++ storm shields is one of the dumbest ideas to come out of GW in recent years (though there are several other ideas in the latest SM codex that give it a run for its money). It's a fluff retcon; it doesn't make fluff sense*; it fixed an underpowered wargear item by making it overpowered; it raised the power level of the MEQ codexes and therefore mandated that subsequent codexes also have their power level increased; it's one of those items that are so good that everyone takes them, i.e. it's bad for internal balance. GW should have instead made storm shields 3++ in close combat only. That would have improved them to a usable level without overpowering them or making a mockery of the fluff and logic of the item. HOWEVER, woulda, shoulda, coulda, didn't. Since it's the new law of the land, it should apply equally to the Dark Angels, and now that it does, there are some great opportunities to exploit! I will cheer loudly if GW ever goes back and fixes the SS to be 3++, CC-only, but until then, may as well make use of it. *"Ah ha! You thought you could shoot my thunder wolf with your lascannon, did you? You forgot that I'm carrying a SHIELD! Mu ha ha ha!" I agree with pretty much everything in this post. Storm Shields and Combat shields were fine as they were and didn't need this power up. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/219447-new-faqon-gw-website/page/9/#findComment-2621815 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chapter Master Ignis Domus Posted January 17, 2011 Share Posted January 17, 2011 If you really need the outside combat thing, do something like Lelith where it's 4+ in combat, 5+ outside(I know she's one better, but she's Wonderwoman). Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/219447-new-faqon-gw-website/page/9/#findComment-2621832 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ash Posted January 17, 2011 Share Posted January 17, 2011 Hello fellow Dark Angels - new to the forum, having recently returned to 40K after a long hiatus (hadn't played since 3rd edition up until a few months back).Wanted to share this list with everyone that I used to absolutely decimate the Eldar with in a game last night (Annihilation mission, final Kill Points 11-4). I think it'll have a tough time against hordes, but 12 missile launcher shots + 3 heavy bolters per turn should be able to cut through ranks pretty quickly. In the game I tested this out against Eldar, between the CML and the LR's lascannons, I was able to cripple his army on the first turn, leaving my opponent scrambling to recover with light weapons that bounced off the deathwing's armor. Anyway, just wanted to share this post-FAQ attempt at an army list. Looking forward to posting on here with some regularity and sharing photos of my army! Yes the alpha strike from those land speeders is nothing to ignore and outflank deepstrike from the bikes/speeders is very very effective It is MSU thats for sure I can see the new title Landspammers Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/219447-new-faqon-gw-website/page/9/#findComment-2621857 Share on other sites More sharing options...
breng77 Posted January 17, 2011 Share Posted January 17, 2011 If you really need the outside combat thing, do something like Lelith where it's 4+ in combat, 5+ outside(I know she's one better, but she's Wonderwoman). You mean what old storm shields on termies already did? I think it would have been better to have the storm shield be +1 to your invul save (minimum of 5+), so termies would be 4+ base, but characters with an invul save from say and iron halo could get a 3++. Otherwise they are just not worth taking. As a player that had those old storm shields very recently I never used TH/SS termies in my DW army, as you need the invul save more against shooting than in CC, and Lighting claws do a better job of killing things like fists that might hurt you in the first place. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/219447-new-faqon-gw-website/page/9/#findComment-2621889 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chapter Master Ignis Domus Posted January 17, 2011 Share Posted January 17, 2011 No, there was no invulnerable outside combat on the 4th ed. storm shields. I'll go double check my codex in a second. EDIT: Yep, nada. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/219447-new-faqon-gw-website/page/9/#findComment-2621907 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deathwing Posted January 17, 2011 Share Posted January 17, 2011 I think armies of choice now will be Deathraven armies with Belial + 2 or 3 squads, Sammy + 2 or 3 squads and max typhoons plus whatever else. Huge amount of anti-transport capability with the improved cyclones and typhoons, still decent anti-tank with the scouting meltas and the DW got a whole lot more survivable with the 3++ shields. Our regular battle brothers might get pushed out though as they are still overpriced compared to the other books, but oh well. Take the good with the bad. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/219447-new-faqon-gw-website/page/9/#findComment-2621937 Share on other sites More sharing options...
breng77 Posted January 17, 2011 Share Posted January 17, 2011 @ Cm Ignis Except that termies have a 5++ normally. So like I said, for termies we already had that. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/219447-new-faqon-gw-website/page/9/#findComment-2621945 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chapter Master Ignis Domus Posted January 17, 2011 Share Posted January 17, 2011 Good point. But if you're talking about the storm shield being used for non-termy marines, then it seems like it would work. Plus, librarians would still have access to an invuln save without being a terminator. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/219447-new-faqon-gw-website/page/9/#findComment-2621956 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grey Mage Posted January 17, 2011 Share Posted January 17, 2011 YES!!!! YESS!!! YEEEEESSSS!!!! DA are back baby! NO more scoffing from those silly Space Wolves and Blood Angels. My DW/RW combo is back in the running now! And just in time because I only have to do some touchups and paint two models before I have a 100% painted army! I WAS in all Ork mode, but now I am going to bust these bad boys out and see what kind of havoc we can create *evil grin* FOR THE LION! -VardenV2 PS: I wish that this came out sooner! Of course, as soon as I go off back to college and have no army with me or opponents is when my favorite army gets to unleash some serious butt hurt on some people -.- oh well. Maybe I'll treat myself to some new DW/RW models while I am in Boston :) Dont worry, the SWs will still give you crap for being a bunch of dress-wearing punks :). Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/219447-new-faqon-gw-website/page/9/#findComment-2621972 Share on other sites More sharing options...
raptor1199 Posted January 17, 2011 Share Posted January 17, 2011 and we can still question SWs very close relationship with wolfs........... :) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/219447-new-faqon-gw-website/page/9/#findComment-2621997 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Freman Bloodglaive Posted January 17, 2011 Share Posted January 17, 2011 In second edition, storm shields provided 4+ unmodified save both in combat and at range, but only if the attacker was in the front 90 degree arc of the wielder. The ability of Space Wolves and Ultramarines to give terminator armour with thunder hammer and storm shield to their Wolf Guard/Sergeant meant that by placing him as the closest model in the squad (ie the target people had to shoot at) the rest of the squad was nearly invulnerable. Ah, the good old days. Then there was the Eldar Exarch with power field (2+ unmodified) with abilities and wargear that made him about -3 to hit. He could stand in front of an entire Eldar army to take the shots with a pretty good chance of still being there when the game ended, which against Eldar was usually turn 2. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/219447-new-faqon-gw-website/page/9/#findComment-2622257 Share on other sites More sharing options...
GlauG Posted January 17, 2011 Share Posted January 17, 2011 I had a quick game with one of my regular opponents with my newly updated DA, the list was roughly; Belial Sammael Belial's DW "command squad" with apothecary (with banner), 1TH/SS, 1LC, 1CML 2x DW Squad with 1TH/SS, 1LC, 1CML 2x Bikers with Power Sword Sgt, Flamer, Melta, MM Attack Bike, melta bombs on one Bike Sgt 1500 on the nose IIRC. My friend was running; Pedro Lysander 6 or 7 Terminators, one with CML 2x Tactical squads with plasma and ML, one sgt had a power sword AssCan/PF Dreadnought Predator Annihillator with HB Sponsons Devs with 4 MLs The game was Anihillation, Spearhead deployment. He won first turn, and deployed so he had a pretty commanding view of the battlefield with most of his heavy weapons, so in response I parked Sammael and one RW Squadron behind a Fortress of Redemption out of LOS from his entire army, and resolved to make him come to me so I could choose the engagement. Surprisingly, a defensive start worked well, using DWA to drop Belial and another squad safely in cover behind the fortress next to my bikes, though all my shiny new Cyclone Missile Launchers appeared to be shooting duds as I never rolled more than a 3 to try and penetrate his Predator's armour! He Mishapped trying to DS Lysander and chums next to one of my DW squads, but they were merely delayed and reappeared in the correct place next turn... only to be assaulted by about half of my army, as two Terminator Squads and a Bike squad bundled him. I slightly sneakily managed to get Lysander only in combat with the Bikers, took him down to two wounds while my other Termies killed all of his with LC and Power Sword attacks, but in return he smooshed the Bike squad, and took out half a squad of Deathwing the next round before he was put down. Outflanking melta bikers took down his Dread from behind, and my other bike squad tied up one of his tactical squads in assault, with the two power sword wielding sergeants ending up duelling in single combat till the end of the game after all their men had died around them! Sammael shot out his Devastators over the course of two or three turns, with them managing to stun him for a turn, but nothing further. Kantor was shot to death by Belial's squad, Krak Missiles doing something finally and his last Tactical squad ended up being rolled over by the remants of the Terminators who killed Lysander, who's last man held them long enough for Belial's full-strength squad to reinforce him and wipe them all out. In the end he had only the one sergeant left, duelling with my surviving Ravenwing sergeant. Things I learned; A single Thunder Hammer/SS Terminator in a squad makes them incredibly resilient compared to before when you take mixed fire from a squad with only one or two heavy/special weapons. Cyclone Missile Launchers are much more flexible than assault cannons due to the extended range; I could never have played the same way with my old 3-AssCan list. While hardly optimal, staying back on the first turn to plink at approaching armour is a nice option to have. Feel No Pain is excellent on a squad of Deathwing Terminators facing large amounts of basic weapon fire, only moreso when characters join the unit. The first test of any cool new thing ends in rolling lots of sets of snake eyes either to hit, wound, or penetrate. :lol: Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/219447-new-faqon-gw-website/page/9/#findComment-2622311 Share on other sites More sharing options...
LardO'Blood Posted January 18, 2011 Share Posted January 18, 2011 So I had two games today: Game 1: ORKS! Grotsnik Warboss with PK, cybork body... 2x 30 boyz, nob with PK 4 deffchoppas, TL rokkit launcher 2 deffchoppas, PKs and big shootas (IIRC) Killa Kan with skorcha and DCCW Da Deffwingz: Belial w/ TLC DW squad, AC, apothecary, banner, 3 TH/SS (not on sergeant) DW squad, 2x CF, AC DW squad, CML Ven Dreadnought, ML and AC Ven Dreadnought, ML and AC LRC w/ SB The game went pretty well, it was the two objective kind (can't remember name) and spearhead. The Deathwing performed well, whittling down one boyz squad to 4 guys, the nob and the warboss on turn one, I wasn't expecting to be able to place that much firepower down. The game ended with my CML squad on my home objective and my AC squad on the Ork objective, the only remaining Ork unit was a falling back boyz squad. Game 2: Tyranids His list: Hive tyrant with two guard Tyranid prime 4 Warriors A bunch of spores 4 genestealers and a brood lord 2x 10ish gaunts Carnifex Trygon 2x Zoanthropes My list: The same. The Deathwing performed pretty well, the mission was dawn of war with two objectives. I placed a surprising amount of firepower down once again. Through most of the game I ignored the objectives, just working on kill points. At the end he had a 1 wound brood lord, one unharmed gaunt unit and a three wound carnifex. I had lost only two terminator squads and a dreadnought. On turn four, I managed to get my command squad back onto my home objective, causing a tie. Killpoints however, I had destroyed much more. The score would have been about 7 to 3, me. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/219447-new-faqon-gw-website/page/9/#findComment-2622386 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kingin Posted January 18, 2011 Share Posted January 18, 2011 Oh I remember someone saying they knew someone who wrecked a space wolves and black templar, what was your list? for 1850 need one for this weekend tournament. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/219447-new-faqon-gw-website/page/9/#findComment-2622460 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ash Posted January 19, 2011 Share Posted January 19, 2011 I think it was this list, it broke Templars, Space Wolves and later the next day Blood Angels Belial TLC Sammael LS DW Command squad, Apoth, 3 TH/SS, 2 TLC Company Banner LRC EA 3 Bikes 2 Plasma Guns AB MM 3 Bikes 2 Melta Guns AB MM 3 Bikes 2 Melta Guns AB MM 3 Bikes 2 Melta Guns AB MM Land speeder Typhoon Land Speeder Land Speeder Typhoon 1850 I am going off the top of my head have my notes at home but its pretty close any extra points were taken with melta bombs. I don't recomend it but now with that 3++ terminators can walk around under S10 pie plates and its not too bad. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/219447-new-faqon-gw-website/page/9/#findComment-2623987 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flinch Posted January 20, 2011 Share Posted January 20, 2011 Am I the only one that will miss the S5, AP5 Heavy 1 Blast Twin Linked Typhoon shots? Who cares that the current typhoon is better, I loved pulling out a victory because my opponent overlooked those speeders. "Vanilla Speeders are better". Yeah, they were, but that didn't stop my typhoons winning games for me... Now Get Off My Lawn! ... having said that, I'm loving that I have to try out new tactics/targets with my speeders now... Move 12", shoot HB or MM as well as 2x Frag blasts... And what the...? My Cyclone Terminator just figured out how to shoot twice? Awesome sauce. TH&SS? Meh. I only have 4. I may swap in one per squad, maybe not even that. My termies tend to die more from failed 2+ saves rather than 5++ saves. Feel No Pain Apothecary makes all the difference here. All up, really positive. Love the adjustment. So... When do we get access to Stormravens and Redeemers? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/219447-new-faqon-gw-website/page/9/#findComment-2625744 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Diavlo Posted January 20, 2011 Share Posted January 20, 2011 So... When do we get access to Stormravens and Redeemers? +/- 2 years from now :lol: Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/219447-new-faqon-gw-website/page/9/#findComment-2626115 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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