IA: The Stonebound

[Octavulg]

The White Scars use bikes because they're horse-riders. The Stonebound use tanks with some bike outriders and armor because they're used to armored wagon (or even boat) convoys.

[Grey Hunter Ydalir]

Codex layout. Possible exception to have an all-bike company, much like the Ravenwing?

 

I don't like this, by the by, it doesn't feel right. Even with the 'for our parents', thing it's not quite right. Just doesn't fit with the chapter, to my mind. That's what my instincts tell me when I read this, though I'm not sure just how much faith you want to put in my instincts. :P

[Captain Juan Juarez]

Unless it becomes a change due to combat history - Third Company - for example - fighting campaign after campaign where bikes were the most suitable tool to deploy and it stuck after?

[Ace Debonair]

Codex layout. Possible exception to have an all-bike company, much like the Ravenwing?

 

I don't like this, by the by, it doesn't feel right. Even with the 'for our parents', thing it's not quite right. Just doesn't fit with the chapter, to my mind. That's what my instincts tell me when I read this, though I'm not sure just how much faith you want to put in my instincts. :P

Unless it becomes a change due to combat history - Third Company - for example - fighting campaign after campaign where bikes were the most suitable tool to deploy and it stuck after?

 

Well, it was of a 'we don't 100% approve of changing our tactics even though it's sensible to do so, because the spirit of the Khan will be unhappy/bikes were good enough for our ancestor chapters/vampire pirates will eat our souls overnight*, so to appease our ancestors' ghosts/ward off vengeful vampire pirates* we will maintain one company who steadfastly preserves the old ways.'

 

If it doesn't fly, it doesn't fly.

It was just an idea I was bouncing around in my head the last few months.

 

 

 

*Selected description may not represent the Stonebound's beliefs 100% accurately.

[Captain Juan Juarez]

It can work, just don't make it a "Well Daddy did it.." thing, 'cause I find that weaker than my ability to sustain a realtionship with a woman :P

[Ace Debonair]

It can work, just don't make it a "Well Daddy did it.." thing, 'cause I find that weaker than my ability to sustain a realtionship with a woman ;)

 

Oh snap. ;)

 

 

Well, I updated the first post with a bit more stuff for the origins/history.

I had a go at actually writing out the origins/history, too. Although frankly, the end result was incredibly dull to read, so I haven't posted it.

 

Gah. I can't seem to make time for writing these days, and when I do the results are sub-par - not the best start to an IA I've ever had. :D

 

If there's any problems, ideas, opinions or conjecture anyone has regarding the updated first post, I'm more than happy to hear it.

 

EDIT: CJJ, I'm curious.

Why have you got an advert for my Emperor's Gardeners in your signature?

[Captain Juan Juarez]

EDIT: CJJ, I'm curious.

Why have you got an advert for my Emperor's Gardeners in your signature?

 

Hey, you said I could write them up! ^_^

[The Shiny One]

I dont have any real critic, only compliments on how cool they are! And I really like the name.

 

As for the Bike Company, I have to admit that it seems off somehow, perhaps the Bike Squads in the companies could take on a honorable job, like Vanguard on bikes! So that the Veterans how knew the Red Sabres still use fast tactics, and perhaps over time this leads to a new tradition for the more tribal influenced brothers. So riding bikes becomes an honor, in memory of there teachers!

The guarding-a-convoy-theme Octavulg suggested sounds very good...

[Ace Debonair]

I dont have any real critic, only compliments on how cool they are! And I really like the name.

 

As for the Bike Company, I have to admit that it seems off somehow, perhaps the Bike Squads in the companies could take on a honorable job, like Vanguard on bikes! So that the Veterans how knew the Red Sabres still use fast tactics, and perhaps over time this leads to a new tradition for the more tribal influenced brothers. So riding bikes becomes an honor, in memory of there teachers!

The guarding-a-convoy-theme Octavulg suggested sounds very good...

 

Yeah, the more I think about it the more I think I might drop the bike company.

It's a nice idea in theory, but in practice it's just another complication to work through. :blush:

 

I'll definitely make it so that being chosen for the bike attacks is something of an honour, though. Good idea.

 

EDIT:

CJJ: Good point. Carry on! B)

[NightrawenII]

Hello, Ace. I have not seen these guys for sooo long. :P

 

History:

6th founding. Khan's geneseed.

- I know, you have settled on khan's boys definitely, but the name doesn't strike me as one a White Scars' successor would choose. Therefore explanation is needed.

 

Fight lots of Orks, take on very few recruits, decide to tour the segmentum until they find a suitable homeworld. Interim leader, head of the training cadre from the Red Sabres ( the Stonebound's parent chapter) is very picky when it comes to a homeworld, and it takes a good few years to find one he likes.

- Why is this important? ie. Why this warrant attention of reader other than lets toss here some flavour for flavour sake.

 

When the Red Sabres are wiped out, dedicate a company to the pursuit of their killers, wandering the Segmentum Pacificus and further afield in search of the Rift Lords.

- If the entire Chapter was wiped out, then sending one company after the culprit is like sending mouse after cat. (Ninja'd by Shinzaren)

 

Somewhat introverted and grumpy chapter, but it's partly a charade, and the Stonebound are quite kind-hearted (for space marines) underneath it.

- Why? and Why?

- There should be some grudge or injustice in the past to explain the grumpyness.

- The Salamanders are nice, because they live amongst the people of Nocturne.

 

Homeworld:

Kagara has fiercely unhospitable winters, vast underground seas heated by geothermal vents, and multiple large moons that induce tidal stresses during the winter, causing these seas to surge along ancient underground rivers and geysers, keeping the underground warm while the surface is frozen.

- I'm not expert in geology, but wouldn't this cause vulcanic and seismic activity? Just a question. ;) (Ninja'd by Shinzaren)

 

Unfortunately, giant lizards also live underground, and get more active/hungry during the winter, so they prey on the humans.

- Why it must be always giant lizard?! Seriously, why not giant- bats, rats, ground-hogs or something...?

- The lizards are sleepy during winters or cold weather, because they are cold-blooded.

 

Outside of the winters, the caves are cooler

- How could be caves cooler outside of winter period?

 

Beliefs:

Taken from Kagaran society, where the rite of passage from boyhood to manhood is basically making your own axe and chainmail armour.

- Observation: The chainmail armour is not hard to manufacture per se, but exhausting. IIRC, it's usually a result of 1000 hours of work.

 

Defeats or similar dishonours are carved onto Grudge-Stones, by the chapter's Sages (Librarians) and are carried by the dishonoured company until the Sages deem that grudge paid back in full.

- Why Librarians? The guys in charge of rituals and ceremonies are Chaplains.

- Dwarfs eschew magic and don't trust wizards.(Somewhat ninja'd by Blacklight.)

 

The chapter's insular nature will partly stem from a Kagaran distrust of people from other clans, only in this case it's a distrust of non-Stonebound.

- Why the Kagara clans distrust each other?

 

The recruits are integrated randomly into different companies to break down the insular nature of the Kagarans, and make them less 'X clan' and more 'Stonebound'.

- Wouldn't be more appropriate (or workable, pick what you want) to mould them into one single company? It's not like you can't re-invent the Scout Co..

 

Combat Doctrine:

In an ideal world, something happens to make them grudgingly put some value on slower units.

- Fighting in the areas, where you couldn't use bikes like cities, forrests, swamplands et cetera et cetera, makes more sense to adopt a different approach to warfare. Just my POV.

 

Organisation:

Gradual adoption of slower units allows the chapter to use their dreadnoughts, the 'Ironbound'.

- The White Scars don't use the Dread's because they are slow, but because of their belief. Observe:

Dreadnoughts are not employed by the White Scars, as the cold, metal sarcophagi of these mighty constructions evokes a horror of eternal confinement that goes against the White Scars` philosophy that when a warrior dies, his soul should be free to travel to the afterlife.

 

First company veterans issued a red shield, which they decorate over time with their personal heraldry. Each shield tells the story-via-artwork of one of the chapter's heroes. When the marine dies, his shield is hung on the fortress monastery walls.

- The problem with this is that the shield is often on receiving end of enemy blows, so decorations and artwork on such piece of equipment is rather waste of time and effort.

 

Battlecry:

Insert snappy Battlecry here.

- *cough* Klotzen, nicht Kleckern! *cough*

- Cokie for anyone, who gets the reference. ;)

 

++++

@Captain Juan Juarez

I wouldn't say an axe is a must; axes might be favoured but aren't suitable for close confines as I imagine the Stonebound be good tunnel and space hulk fighters.

- Depends on the axe. The "shield-wall" formation was made from warriors armed with spears, swords and axes.

- The Huskarl, armed with two-handed axe, usually fough in tandem with spearman.

 

@Ace Debonair

A dwarf without an axe? When does that ever happen?

- There are dwarves with hammers too. ;)

 

@Octavulg

Dragoon & Wagon-movement

- Agreed.

 

@The Shiny One

As for the Bike Company, I have to admit that it seems off somehow, perhaps the Bike Squads in the companies could take on a honorable job, like Vanguard on bikes! So that the Veterans how knew the Red Sabres still use fast tactics, and perhaps over time this leads to a new tradition for the more tribal influenced brothers. So riding bikes becomes an honor, in memory of there teachers!

- I support this idea. The company Assault squads can be deployed as Bike squads. In the case of the Stonebound it's reversed, the Bike squads can be deployed as the Assault squads. Just a thought.

[Octavulg]

Well, it was of a 'we don't 100% approve of changing our tactics even though it's sensible to do so, because the spirit of the Khan will be unhappy/bikes were good enough for our ancestor chapters/vampire pirates will eat our souls overnight*, so to appease our ancestors' ghosts/ward off vengeful vampire pirates* we will maintain one company who steadfastly preserves the old ways.'

 

Organizations in the Imperium do not wake up one morning and say, "Hey, kids, let's do everything differently."

 

Simply doesn't happen.

 

Gradual divergence, dear boy. Gradual divergence.

[Shinzaren]

- The problem with this is that the shield is often on receiving end of enemy blows, so decorations and artwork on such piece of equipment is rather waste of time and effort.

I believe the shield in question is ceremonial only. They don't actually take the Red Shields into combat, instead they use them as a constantly updating saga. The Shield is a record of their deeds, and I would assume they carry a separate shield for actual combat.

[Ace Debonair]

History:

6th founding. Khan's geneseed.

- I know, you have settled on khan's boys definitely, but the name doesn't strike me as one a White Scars' successor would choose. Therefore explanation is needed.

I'll bear that in mind when expanding the bullet points. Well spotted. ^_^

 

Fight lots of Orks, take on very few recruits, decide to tour the segmentum until they find a suitable homeworld. Interim leader, head of the training cadre from the Red Sabres ( the Stonebound's parent chapter) is very picky when it comes to a homeworld, and it takes a good few years to find one he likes.

- Why is this important? ie. Why this warrant attention of reader other than lets toss here some flavour for flavour sake.

 

Well, when writing the exapnded version of the origins, going straight from 'here's the Stoneboud' to 'they live on Kagara' seemed much too abrupt. I was semi-considering the Stonebound later seeing the homeworld as their inheritance from their parent chapter, but I'm not sure I should bother with it.

 

When the Red Sabres are wiped out, dedicate a company to the pursuit of their killers, wandering the Segmentum Pacificus and further afield in search of the Rift Lords.

- If the entire Chapter was wiped out, then sending one company after the culprit is like sending mouse after cat. (Ninja'd by Shinzaren)

Oops, I worded that badly. In fact, I've left half of the story out altogether. I'll figure it out properly and re-write that bit.

 

Somewhat introverted and grumpy chapter, but it's partly a charade, and the Stonebound are quite kind-hearted (for space marines) underneath it.

- Why? and Why?

- There should be some grudge or injustice in the past to explain the grumpyness.

- The Salamanders are nice, because they live amongst the people of Nocturne.

 

Again, dodgy writing on my part. It's more down to the nature of the Kagarans they recruit from. Generally outside of their clan, they don't make many friends. But when htey do, they're incredibly loyal to them.

 

That's actually much closer to what I wanted them to sound like. Heh, it'd be nice to get something right first time for once. :P

 

 

Kagara has fiercely unhospitable winters, vast underground seas heated by geothermal vents, and multiple large moons that induce tidal stresses during the winter, causing these seas to surge along ancient underground rivers and geysers, keeping the underground warm while the surface is frozen.

- I'm not expert in geology, but wouldn't this cause vulcanic and seismic activity? Just a question. ;) (Ninja'd by Shinzaren)

 

I swiped the idea wholesale from Apothete, 'cause all his other ideas were pretty much spot-on.

I don't know anything much about geography, though, so maybe I should just think up something less complicated.

 

Unfortunately, giant lizards also live underground, and get more active/hungry during the winter, so they prey on the humans.

- Why it must be always giant lizard?! Seriously, why not giant- bats, rats, ground-hogs or something...?

- The lizards are sleepy during winters or cold weather, because they are cold-blooded.

It was lizards in the last draft, that's why. :lol:

I'll come up with something else if I have to.

 

Outside of the winters, the caves are cooler

- How could be caves cooler outside of winter period?

Because there's rivers of boiling water surging through the underground during the winter, thanks to crazy tidal stresses. Outside of the winter, those rivers lie dormant.

 

I don't even know what I'm talking about, really.

I think Kagara needs an overhaul. :D

 

Taken from Kagaran society, where the rite of passage from boyhood to manhood is basically making your own axe and chainmail armour.

- Observation: The chainmail armour is not hard to manufacture per se, but exhausting. IIRC, it's usually a result of 1000 hours of work.

Well, that's a valid point. It's more of a test of duty, determination, and drive than a test of skill. And besides, that's just a tradition on the homeworld. The ones made as marines are more symbolic rather than a real test.

 

Defeats or similar dishonours are carved onto Grudge-Stones, by the chapter's Sages (Librarians) and are carried by the dishonoured company until the Sages deem that grudge paid back in full.

- Why Librarians? The guys in charge of rituals and ceremonies are Chaplains.

- Dwarfs eschew magic and don't trust wizards.(Somewhat ninja'd by Blacklight.)

I could switch it to chaplains, I suppose.

 

The chapter's insular nature will partly stem from a Kagaran distrust of people from other clans, only in this case it's a distrust of non-Stonebound.

- Why the Kagara clans distrust each other?

I was thinking a history of inter-clan warring and the occasional unscrupulous trader leading to a dislike of outsiders. I'll be sure to detail that in the write-up.

 

The recruits are integrated randomly into different companies to break down the insular nature of the Kagarans, and make them less 'X clan' and more 'Stonebound'.

- Wouldn't be more appropriate (or workable, pick what you want) to mould them into one single company? It's not like you can't re-invent the Scout Co..

I really suck at writing sometimes. I meant integrated into different squads, not companies, so they learn to overwrite their distrust of other clans. Well spotted.

 

Combat Doctrine:

In an ideal world, something happens to make them grudgingly put some value on slower units.

- Fighting in the areas, where you couldn't use bikes like cities, forrests, swamplands et cetera et cetera, makes more sense to adopt a different approach to warfare. Just my POV.

 

I suppose if they come up against Chaos or Eldar forces who have learned about the fast-attack preference, they could deliberately lead fights into such terrain as much as possible, too. Good one.

 

Battlecry:

Insert snappy Battlecry here.

- *cough* Klotzen, nicht Kleckern! *cough*

- Cokie for anyone, who gets the reference.

 

No cookie for me. -_-

Well, it was of a 'we don't 100% approve of changing our tactics even though it's sensible to do so, because the spirit of the Khan will be unhappy/bikes were good enough for our ancestor chapters/vampire pirates will eat our souls overnight*, so to appease our ancestors' ghosts/ward off vengeful vampire pirates* we will maintain one company who steadfastly preserves the old ways.'

 

Organizations in the Imperium do not wake up one morning and say, "Hey, kids, let's do everything differently."

 

Simply doesn't happen.

 

Gradual divergence, dear boy. Gradual divergence.

Aha!

You've been caught out by my use of the word 'overnight'. :P

I wasn't suggesting the change was a spur-of-the-moment thing.

 

- The problem with this is that the shield is often on receiving end of enemy blows, so decorations and artwork on such piece of equipment is rather waste of time and effort.

I believe the shield in question is ceremonial only. They don't actually take the Red Shields into combat, instead they use them as a constantly updating saga. The Shield is a record of their deeds, and I would assume they carry a separate shield for actual combat.

That's actually what I intended. ^_^

 

 

 

Thanks guys. I'll update this later if I get the chance.

 

EDIT: My crusade continues - more typos eliminated in the Emperor's name.

[Octavulg]

Aha!

You've been caught out by my use of the word 'overnight'. tongue.gif

I wasn't suggesting the change was a spur-of-the-moment thing.

 

It was the 'keep one company that holds to the old ways' bit.

 

If it's an evolution, they won't notice the change until they're past the point where they want to hold on.

[Ace Debonair]

Aha!

You've been caught out by my use of the word 'overnight'. tongue.gif

I wasn't suggesting the change was a spur-of-the-moment thing.

 

It was the 'keep one company that holds to the old ways' bit.

 

If it's an evolution, they won't notice the change until they're past the point where they want to hold on.

Good point.

 

I'll drop the bike-only company, anyhow. I suspect I have enough complications to explain away as it is. :D

 

That and I'm the only one who thinks it's a neat idea. And when the author is the only one who likes the idea, that's bad. ;)

[Blacklight]

Replace the bike-only unit with a melee-only unit. If anyone's read Forgotten Realms, I'm thinking a Space Marine equivalent of the Gutbusters. Make the marines pretty much 'insane' compared to the rest and they fight with power fists and lightning claws exclusively. Maybe they go one up and add sharp bits to their armor and they dive into their enemies to cut them to pieces.

 

Probably a bit over the top, but it's dwarf-y :huh:

[Argon]

Battlecry:

Insert snappy Battlecry here.

- *cough* Klotzen, nicht Kleckern! *cough*

- Cokie for anyone, who gets the reference. :)

 

 

I sort of get it. Do I get half a cookie?

 

The translation, for all you poor souls who don't speak German, is "Don't dawdle, destroy!". In other words, it means "Don't give your enemy time to recover, just crush him and be done with it."

[NightrawenII]

I sort of get it. Do I get half a cookie?

 

The translation, for all you poor souls who don't speak German, is "Don't dawdle, destroy!". In other words, it means "Don't give your enemy time to recover, just crush him and be done with it."

Close. :ph34r:

"Smash, don't Patter!" It roughly means "Don't do things by half." It is famous quote of

Heinz Guderian, father of PanzerWaffe and Blitzkrieg.

 

[Captain Juan Juarez]

I sort of get it. Do I get half a cookie?

 

The translation, for all you poor souls who don't speak German, is "Don't dawdle, destroy!". In other words, it means "Don't give your enemy time to recover, just crush him and be done with it."

Close. ;)

"Smash, don't Patter!" It roughly means "Don't do things by half." It is famous quote of

Heinz Guderian, father of PanzerWaffe and Blitzkrieg.

 

 

Can I have the other half? Because it's a waste otherwise... :ph34r:

[Argon]

I sort of get it. Do I get half a cookie?

 

The translation, for all you poor souls who don't speak German, is "Don't dawdle, destroy!". In other words, it means "Don't give your enemy time to recover, just crush him and be done with it."

Close. :D

"Smash, don't Patter!" It roughly means "Don't do things by half." It is famous quote of

Heinz Guderian, father of PanzerWaffe and Blitzkrieg.

 

 

I've seen more than one translation for that phrase. I say it's close enough.

[Ace Debonair]

Kagara has fiercely unhospitable winters, vast underground seas heated by geothermal vents, and multiple large moons that induce tidal stresses during the winter, causing these seas to surge along ancient underground rivers and geysers, keeping the underground warm while the surface is frozen.

- I'm not expert in geology, but wouldn't this cause vulcanic and seismic activity? Just a question. ;) (Ninja'd by Shinzaren)

 

I swiped the idea wholesale from Apothete, 'cause all his other ideas were pretty much spot-on.

I don't know anything much about geography, though, so maybe I should just think up something less complicated.

Outside of the winters, the caves are cooler

- How could be caves cooler outside of winter period?

Because there's rivers of boiling water surging through the underground during the winter, thanks to crazy tidal stresses. Outside of the winter, those rivers lie dormant.

 

I don't even know what I'm talking about, really.

I think Kagara needs an overhaul. :D

 

And as if by magic, I'm stuck.

I can't think of any justifiable reason for the clans of Kagara to migrate to and from the planet's underground. :D

 

Granted, I'm endeavouring to seperate the words 'Stonebound' and 'Dwarvish' a little, so the chapter isn't all 'LOOK AT THE SPACE DWARVES' about everything.

But this was one of the dwarvish influences I'd hoped to keep, in all honesty.

 

And this is where the Liber comes in, 'cause I need a second opinion. (And a third, fourth, fifth etc won't hurt ;) )

 

Should I just stick the Kagarans on the surface all the time and have done with it, or should I try to come up with a plausible reason for the underground migrations?

[Heru]

If the planet had an uneven orbit around it's sun, the period in which the planet passes closest to the sun could rain radiation upon the world forcing the people to hide underground during those periods.

[Guest Mordray]

Regarding the migration between above ground and under ground...

 

Perhaps the winters are cold enough to reduce the heat of the caves via convection. During the summer the boiling waters and general lack of cold air keeps the caves unbareably hot... of course this line of thinking also brings up the question of why don't they just make geo-thermal vents for their homes in the winter... bah.

 

Just assume it works and write it like its a fact. Let the nit pickers nit pick and be done with it.

[Blacklight]

Honestly I'd have to agree. If you're shooting for a dwarvish theme, living underground is just one of those things you really need to have. Here's a few ideas:

 

a ) The planet is resource rich, but close to the system's sun. High winds frequently tear across the surface, eroding structures incredibly fast and proving almost always lethal to the unprotected. To avoid this the inhabitants live underground, with the marines constructing their fortress-monastery below ground and any of the citizenry building their cities and homes near the mines.

 

b ) The planet is intensely geothermal, but the surface is stunningly cold. Below ground, geothermal activity keeps caverns and mines warm and powers the inhabitants' machines and generates their power. The marines build their monastery underground, as before, and draw recruits from the tunnelers.

 

c ) Perhaps the planet's inhabitants live underground not because of environmental reasons, but ritualistic reasons. The planet could be mountainous and inherently cavernous, so long ago the planet's primitive humans lived in the caves. Eventually their rituals and lifestyles grew to include the stone more and more, and even when they reached more advanced states of evolution, their fascination with the stone remained. The marines drawn from the planet's inhabitants carry over this fascination or respect for the stone.

 

d ) Intensely hostile surface flora and fauna drove the planet's humans underground ages ago, where they were able to more easily defend themselves. Even now, they build their homes deep underground with few entrances. Marines draw their recruits from these people. After living within the stone for so long, the humans of the planet now deeply respect it and admire its strength.

[Octavulg]

If the planet had an uneven orbit around it's sun, the period in which the planet passes closest to the sun could rain radiation upon the world forcing the people to hide underground during those periods.

 

It also might come with some periods of intense cold, too.