IA: The Stonebound

[Ecritter]

I'll refresh my thoughts on the chapter and try to get back to you with some ideas.

[Ecritter]

Do Orks have any allies? Just an idea I'm working on.

[Octavulg]

Ace Debonair:

 

You know, I finally get what Octavulg was talking about when he was asking me what the unifying theme, the core of this Chapter was.

It only took me what, just over a year? sweat.gif

 

Like I say so often: I am always right. Eventually.

 

* * *

 

Ecritter:

 

Do Orks have any allies? Just an idea I'm working on.

 

The Blood Axes have been known to work for humans, but Orks are kinda grumpy. They tend to wonder why they're not fighting these people.

[Ecritter]

Okay, here's my idea. Granted I'm using alot of knowledge I have on Orcs to cover the minimal amount I have on Orks. So it may or may not work.

 

-------------------------------------------------

 

* Stonebound are using normal Codex tactics

* Going after Orks as their main calling

* On a planet, chasing a medium sized Ork band that seems to be retreating from them

* Suddenly find themselves surrounded by not just Orks, but the Rift Lords (more then they thought survived), and a Daemon Lord

* They've been lured into a trap

* Stonebound suffer heavy losses and are forced to retreat.

* New tactics developed in response to this event, cause they are not just the hunters now ... they are being hunted aswell.

 

Sound workable?

 

EDIT:

 

I think that would give you the tie in, as the Stonebound are marked for destruction now, always having to look over their shoulders ... and still continue their duties.

[Ace Debonair]

Like I say so often: I am always right. Eventually.

 

Like I very often say: Back to the drawing board! :lol:

 

 

Sound workable?

 

...

 

I think that would give you the tie in, as the Stonebound are marked for destruction now, always having to look over their shoulders ... and still continue their duties.

 

Not bad, but I actually wanted them to move towards Codex tactics. :(

Nevertheless, that could work well with a little adjustment. Let me think it over.

 

As for a big, unifying theme... well, I've sort of had one idea, but it's not well-developed and probably full of holes.

Part of my view on stereotypical Dwarvishness is that Dwarves are like a whole society of loners. They don't get along well with others.

 

So, I'm thinking of playing this up a little.

 

Perhaps having numerous engagements where the Stonebound's allies fall short, for instance, having Imperial Guardsmen go into mass panic and run from an oncoming Ork horde, having a DA successor up and run during a big battle... that sort of thing*. Enough to make the Stonebound very much wary of the larger Imperium, and get a reputation as antisocial, narky and unpleasant.

 

Then, I reinforce that mistrust and isolationist streak throughout the IA with cunning and skillful writing (hah!) and turn it into a central pillar of the Stonebound's character.

 

Sound good? Or should I kick that idea in the head right now? :P

 

EDIT: Damn all typos.

 

 

 

*Now there's room for a lot of fun there. Some of these allies could literally be ambushed on their way to the fight, or otherwise waylaid through devious means by the Rift Lords, which I could then allude to in their IT.

[Ecritter]

I like my theme better :lol:

 

I like the loner bit, but I'm just not sure if its enough to support the entire IA. I say (just to support my theme again :( ) to go the loner route, because of their feeling they're always being watched and hunted.

 

You could alternantly use both in a weird combo move. In the end, its your IA ... I at least hope I helped a little.

[Octavulg]

Dwarven themes, off the top of my head:

 

Craftsmen

Xenophobic/clannish

Dying race (Warhammer Dwarves, at least)

Declining empire

 

It could be interesting to do a chapter that once had a massive empire/area of responsibility, lost it to Orks, and now launches expeditions to reclaim its lost fortresses.

[Galrion]

Dwarven themes, off the top of my head:

 

Craftsmen

Xenophobic/clannish

Dying race (Warhammer Dwarves, at least)

Declining empire

 

It could be interesting to do a chapter that once had a massive empire/area of responsibility, lost it to Orks, and now launches expeditions to reclaim its lost fortresses.

 

Maybe recruiting worlds. I've been reliably informed that you can't have your own little empire.

 

Also dying race isn't just warhammer, tolkein too. You could definately work that into the loss of recruiting worlds, causing the chapter to be understrength.

 

Possibly lost their homeworld to Orks and want it back.

[Octavulg]

C:SM mentions how a variety of chapters now rule little fiefdoms. Though recruiting worlds would still work - you just need the keeps.

[Galrion]

C:SM mentions how a variety of chapters now rule little fiefdoms. Though recruiting worlds would still work - you just need the keeps.

Hmm...I was misinformed...

[Octavulg]

It's a fairly recent change, and it's buried in a bit of text that initially reads like cut-and-pasted Ultramarine-rah-rah fluff. I suspect a lot of people miss it.

[NightrawenII]

Do Orks have any allies? Just an idea I'm working on.

No, but they are easily tricked by Chaos or Eldar.

 

Dwarven themes, off the top of my head:

 

Craftsmen

Xenophobic/clannish

Dying race (Warhammer Dwarves, at least)

Declining empire

Unforgiven

Traditionalist

Disdain for magic

[Ecritter]

Dwarves as I know them (and let me preface this by saying I know nothing about 40k Dwarves).

 

* Clan based society

* Hard workers, love to work in fact

* Love of precious metals and gemstones (some might call them greedy but not me)

* Stocky

* Take pride in their beards (male and female)

* Hard to befriend, but no better friend can be found

* Often use Beserkers in combat

* Expert weaponsmiths, preferring Hammers and Axes

* Expert armorsmiths

* Most live underground

* Love to drink, smoke and eat (renowned for their drinking)

* Distain for Elves

* More apt to find Clerics (Chaplains) then Magicians (Psykers) in Dwarven Society

 

Thats all I can think of at the moment.

 

EDIT:

 

I almost forgot, Dwarves really, and I mean really, hate Orcs ... well Orks in 40k would work too.

[Ace Debonair]

It could be interesting to do a chapter that once had a massive empire/area of responsibility, lost it to Orks, and now launches expeditions to reclaim its lost fortresses.

Hmm.

 

That gives me another idea.

 

If I went with that idea, I could have it so various other Imperial forces are leery of the Stonebound's ambitions to reclaim the worlds they once had, leading to even more isolationist behaviour and mistrust of outsiders from the Stonebound.

 

I'll have to think it through later, this is just a rough, off-the-top-of-my-head-idea.

 

I appreciate the list of dwrvish attributes - it's good to see what people think are the 'core' Dwarvish values. B)

[Galrion]

It's a fairly recent change, and it's buried in a bit of text that initially reads like cut-and-pasted Ultramarine-rah-rah fluff. I suspect a lot of people miss it.

Ahh, that'd be why. After a couple paragraphs that lead one to conclude that a single Ultramarine is the equivalent of a full chapter of any other astartes, my eyes start to glaze over. Where exactly is it, if you know off hand?

 

If I went with that idea, I could have it so various other Imperial forces are leery of the Stonebound's ambitions to reclaim the worlds they once had, leading to even more isolationist behaviour and mistrust of outsiders from the Stonebound

Workable, why do they fear this ambition? Were they such harsh masters? Has the threat been long gone and other Imperial forces colonized the worlds? I'd think the Stonebound would have said something long before now.

 

I think if you mashed the Salamanders with the Space Wolves you'd be pretty close to a dwarf.

[Ace Debonair]

Workable, why do they fear this ambition? Were they such harsh masters? Has the threat been long gone and other Imperial forces colonized the worlds? I'd think the Stonebound would have said something long before now.

Well, perhaps in the eyes of local Inquisitors/Other authority types, Astartes shouldn't be concerning themselves with Empire-building in the first place, much less laying claim to planets that could serve the Imperium better under non-Stonebound control.

 

I admit, the idea needs developing somewhat. It's still vague and barely sensible. :lol:

 

 

EDIT:

Er, yeah. Good question. Perhaps the Stonebound could get tied up in avenging the loss of their other worlds, hunting down those responsible, leaving other Imperial forces to retake said worlds for God-Emperor, Imperium, and Grimdark and Bacon Surprise Sarnies.

 

Obviously, this would irk the Stonebound - their claims to ownership are shot down by the local Inquisition, and they can't exactly declare war on the Imperium or call on outside help - and the Stonebound get all 'grrrr blasted outsiders, can't trust any of them' as a result.

[Ecritter]

The reason I gave my list of Dwarvish traits is .... well, I'm not getting Dwarf from the Stonebound at the moment.

[Grey Hunter Ydalir]

*Slams back into the middle of the Liber after yet another unplanned hiatus*

 

Hello again!

 

It could be interesting to do a chapter that once had a massive empire/area of responsibility, lost it to Orks, and now launches expeditions to reclaim its lost fortresses.

 

I like this.

 

 

Now I'm going to go and nurse the bruises from being launched back into the Liber at almost terminal velocity.

 

Bacon Surprise Sarnies.

 

Where's mine?

[Donkey Kong]

Alrighty, Ace. I've read every post in this thread ... and I still have no idea what's final, what's not, and what's be purged with cleansing flame.

 

Y'know your whole dilemma with wanting the Chapter to be more Codex and less like the White Scars? I think I have a solution. I think it's glaringly painful how obvious this solution can be, and for that reason I fear I may have missed something. I'll tell you anyway:

 

The Red Sabers are Codex Adherent.

 

It makes sense in a way. There is a Chapter between the Stonebound and the White Scars. There is no reason for that Chapter in question to be anything like the White Scars either. You get all the benefits of the noble savage without any of the drawbacks of trying to combine Mongols and Dwarves.

 

You've also never really delved into that whole Dreadnought issue where to the White Scars Dreadnoughts are prisons of the spirit, whereas the Stonebound have no hesitation in using them. Again, the Red Saber middle ground could help, but it's still an issue. It also reminds me of the Infinity Knights. Kind of like how the "Honestly-Not-Ravenwing" Company reminded me more of the Wandering Companies than the Ravenwing.

 

I'm a little confused as to why the Training Cadre leader returns to his Chapter after the Stonebound are established. It hits closer to home when it's his old chapter that's been destroyed instead of his children racing off to save the dude that left them to go on their own after he thought he was ready. There's this terrible connotation I have in my mind of a father teaching his son how to ride a bicycle for the first time and letting go of the seat after reaching a certain speed, but I'll try not to delve into that.

 

I like this new theme of empire building, in a way. However, it kind of devalues the influence of the home world when you're recruiting from many*. The Stonebound could have been tasked with reclaiming several systems, succeeded, and then shortly afterwords see all of the worlds they've liberated reclaimed in an enemy counterattack. It would have a huge impact on the "we don't trust outsiders" mentality. It would hit even harder if the liberated worlds were also, in part, rebuilt with Stonebound aid. As in, "Not only did you lose everything we've conquered, you've lost everything we've rebuilt too!"

 

When they return to reclaim the worlds, they could have a more heavy handed approach, setting up Chapter Keeps to even train the populace themselves. This could go back to the other Imperials feeling that the Stonebound are overstepping themselves while the Stonebound only see it as a precaution against the worlds being conquered again. I would imagine it like that point in Kingdom Hearts where you realized that you had to go back through all of the Disney Worlds because apparently doing it the first time wasn't good enough.

 

Just for curiosity's sake, what's the inspiration behind the Red Shields? Also, if I could change your mind, I would make them see use in combat. It's far more Space Marine like to have your legacy kept on something that was actually there to see it**.

 

*But who am I to say? I pulled a Black Templar with the Death Heads Executors and made them set up Chapter Keeps, but still linked the Black Spots to Uft'ni.

**The Death Heads Executors do this too. Except they're using the skull of the sod who was on the receiving end. And it doesn't have eyes anymore, so it can't really see it, but the point still stands.

[Ace Debonair]

Hey, this thread has been busy.

 

It could be interesting to do a chapter that once had a massive empire/area of responsibility, lost it to Orks, and now launches expeditions to reclaim its lost fortresses.

 

I like this.

 

Yup, the lost-empire-resentment vibe is something I'm probably going to pick up and run with. B)

 

Now I'm going to go and nurse the bruises from being launched back into the Liber at almost terminal velocity.

Not the way I'd celebrate the weekend, but whatever works for you. :D

 

Grimdark and Bacon Surprise Sarnies.

 

Where's mine?

Grimdark and Bacon Surprise - important distinction from the normal Bacon surprise is that the G&BS sarnie is actually made from imperial propaganda, compressed into a rudimentary form of paper bread, and the bacon is actually badly burnt tyranid bits, not all of which are edible. The surprise is that there's also a slice of onion, adding to the horror a dozen-fold.

 

You probably don't want one of them.

 

Alrighty, Ace. I've read every post in this thread ... and I still have no idea what's final, what's not, and what's be purged with cleansing flame.

 

I've got to do an update, I've got to do an update.... :D

 

Y'know your whole dilemma with wanting the Chapter to be more Codex and less like the White Scars? I think I have a solution. I think it's glaringly painful how obvious this solution can be, and for that reason I fear I may have missed something. I'll tell you anyway:

 

The Red Sabers are Codex Adherent.

 

My original intent was for this to be the case.

However, I got roundly lambasted for making people want to know more about the fill-in chapter instead of the Stonebound, because you have to answer 'why are the Red Sabres Codex adherent?'

 

You've also never really delved into that whole Dreadnought issue where to the White Scars Dreadnoughts are prisons of the spirit, whereas the Stonebound have no hesitation in using them. Again, the Red Saber middle ground could help, but it's still an issue. It also reminds me of the Infinity Knights. Kind of like how the "Honestly-Not-Ravenwing" Company reminded me more of the Wandering Companies than the Ravenwing.

 

The HNR company was purged with fire, but I see what you mean.

The idea was, basically, that the Stonebound are more comfortable with the idea of dreadnoughts.

 

I like this new theme of empire building, in a way. However, it kind of devalues the influence of the home world when you're recruiting from many*. The Stonebound could have been tasked with reclaiming several systems, succeeded, and then shortly afterwords see all of the worlds they've liberated reclaimed in an enemy counterattack. It would have a huge impact on the "we don't trust outsiders" mentality. It would hit even harder if the liberated worlds were also, in part, rebuilt with Stonebound aid. As in, "Not only did you lose everything we've conquered, you've lost everything we've rebuilt too!"

 

That's actually pretty close to the idea I've been bouncing around in my brain.

My current plan, such as it is:

 

* Stonebound carve out little empire in the corner of the Seg. Pacificus. Recruit from a bunch of systems, establish underground defences (possibly echoing Kagara, the world where they have their Monastery) and everything is rosy.

 

* Red Sabres are killed via gruelling campaign by the Rift Lords, Stonebound go crazy trying to avenge their parent chapter.

 

* While the cat is away, the mouse comes out to play, only in this case it's an Ork Waaaagh rather than mice, and they're not so much playing as kicking the Stonebound's little empire into pieces. (Not sure if they'd attack Kagara or miss it out)

 

* Inquisitor Steve, who has always been wary of the Chapter's empire-building, is quick to move the Imperial armies in to take back the occupied worlds, and in the name of the Emperor, declares them recruiting grounds for the Imperial Guard, and however Guardsmen armies are founded takes place.

 

* The Stonebound come back, and are not amused. At all. They can't very well take their planets back, because that would be an act of war against the Imperium. They sullenly return to Kagara, and are rather hostile to everyone not from Kagara.

 

* The former Stonebound worlds are therefore littered with neat Dwarf-esque underground fortresses and awesome statues carved into mountains and stuff, although most who live on those worlds have never even seen a Stonebound.

 

I don't know if that makes sense or anything, but it's only a rough idea at the moment, and can certainly be improved.

 

Just for curiosity's sake, what's the inspiration behind the Red Shields? Also, if I could change your mind, I would make them see use in combat. It's far more Space Marine like to have your legacy kept on something that was actually there to see it.

 

Er, viking longships.

You know, where they hang the shields on the side to block arrows and look badass?

 

I saw something, somewhere, at some point where the shields in question were all blue with unique designs on them, and decided immediately that idea was getting stolen and used.

It fits the Dwarvish vibe pretty well, from my viewpoint.

 

-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-

 

Also, apologies for the lack of activity.

I've got some real-life stuff that needs working out, though, so don't expect much activity from me over the next few days.

 

 

EDIT: Ooops, missed one.

The reason I gave my list of Dwarvish traits is .... well, I'm not getting Dwarf from the Stonebound at the moment.

That means you should only be getting Stonebound, then, haha.

 

I'll try and dwarvish things up a bit when I get the time to do an update.

[Octavulg]

Actually, the lost empire is the perfect reason for the Stonebound to get all defensive and dwarfy, if handled right.

 

Something like this, for example:

 

The Stonebound protected a lot of worlds at their height, when they were more White Scarsy. Then there was a war with the Eldar, where even the Stonebound found themselves outmaneuvered (which bears NO RESEMBLANCE TO THE WAR OF THE BEARD IN ANY WAY!). The whole Maiden World thing, perhaps. So they became more defensive, since they could not beat the Eldar at their own game. This is what starts their creation of fortresses (they might have had keeps, but this turns them into complexes). The Eldar may even fail to root them out of a few.

 

Then the Orks show up, swarming as Orks so often do. They take even more worlds, and perhaps batter into a few fortresses through sheer numbers. Suddenly, the Stonebound are down to their home world and a few scattered fortresses (which are no doubt a massive pain to keep supplied and in communication). They've gotten even more defensive-focused since running into the Orks, to boot.

 

So the Stonebound resent the Eldar, resent the Orks, and resent anyone who mucks about trying to take back what they see as their worlds (and, of course, no doubt resent themselves a bit for losing their worlds). I don't think all the worlds should be Imperial again - just a few. But that'd be enough to irk them.

 

So you have defensive cranky buggers with a few scattered fortresses. Works like a charm.

[Grey Hunter Ydalir]

So you have defensive cranky buggers with a few scattered fortresses. Works like a charm.

 

At the risk of sounding repetitive, I like this.

 

I'll try and dwarvish things up a bit when I get the time to do an update.

 

If they all have super long bears, I may have to kill you. I don't like beardy marines. Then again that is just me.

[NightrawenII]

* Stonebound carve out little empire in the corner of the Seg. Pacificus. Recruit from a bunch of systems, establish underground defences (possibly echoing Kagara, the world where they have their Monastery) and everything is rosy.

This is too straw man.

The Chapters don't usually 'rule' their own poket-empires - You could blame Age of Apostasy, though. - and if they do it's because they have to protect the loyal subjects of Emperor, not command and conquer.

Another thing is recruiting from several systems. Yes, the fleet-based, maybe former fleet-based Chapters and some Chapters without suitable recruitment pool do that, but you have already Kagara...

 

So technically speaking, if something like this happened the Stonebound have no right to complaint or held grudge at all.

 

 

I like the idea of lost kingdom, but I'm not fan of fortresses... to much Imperial Guard for my taste.

[Galrion]

The Chapters don't usually 'rule' their own poket-empires - You could blame Age of Apostasy, though. - and if they do it's because they have to protect the loyal subjects of Emperor, not command and conquer.

 

Ack! Don't use that, I'm working on a first draft of a chapter using a similar idea around then(my other one being on the back back burner).

[Guest Mordray]

With the failing of the Astronomican many chapters have been given fiefdom over their local stomping grounds. It has been noted that the Astronomican is affected by warp storms and that it's influence/range isn't uniform.