IA: The Stonebound

[Dosjetka]

Not bad, Ace. Not bad at all.

 

Now, for some C&C!

 

Things I like:

 

- Their colour scheme. It's awesome.

- Their battle-cry (nice find, CJJ).

- I like the name of the First Company and the reason they're called that. Very cool and pretty unique to your Chapter.

- The home world. Quite cool, though I just don't think an axe is the best weapon out there. But whatever, it's a matter of taste more than anything else ;)

- The fact that my idea of the stone tablets is still included within the Chapter (even though you changed it a bit, but I think the current use of the tablets is better than the one I proposed a couple of years ago).

 

Things that could do with some improvement:

 

- It would be nice to have either more hints as to why the Inquisitors acted against the Chapter because as it is described now, I have difficulty imagining something like that happening. But yeah, that could just be me not getting enough sleep. Or both. Meh.

- And lastly, and quite obviously, it would be nice to have some real text rather than bullet points, but that can wait :)

 

Anyway, I'll be following this with interest.

 

Till next time!

 

Ludovic

 

EDIT:

 

I quickly went through the post above mine and I have this to say:

 

I agree with Octavulg to drop the chainmail. Also,

 

Excerpts from the 'Legacy Saga

 

Gosh, whoever wrote that must be awesome.

 

Wait didn't you wri-

Ohhhhhhhhhhhhhh. I get it!

Modesty at its best :(

[Octavulg]

With regards to the second part; do you mean move from Kagara or move to Kagara?

 

Move from more White Scarsy home world to more Dwarfy home world (logically Kagara, but wherever).

 

White Scars without the high speed, eh? I'd say they were tenacious, headstrong, agressive, merciless warriors who believe in the dream of a united Imperium.

 

Probably a reasonable explanation. And would be interesting.

 

Lose the White Scarsness. Do it for the literary glory!

 

Batman isn't a dwarf, nor is he a Dwarvish attribute. tongue.gif

 

Gadgetry? Holding grudges way too long? Gruff voice?

 

I suspect that battlecry might be better suited to another Chapter!

 

Nah. Trust me.

[Ace Debonair]

Things that could do with some improvement:

 

- It would be nice to have either more hints as to why the Inquisitors acted against the Chapter because as it is described now, I have difficulty imagining something like that happening. But yeah, that could just be me not getting enough sleep. Or both. Meh.

 

Even if the Stonebound don't see it that way, what they're doing could be considered, in the right light, as preparing an empire of their own for breaking away from the Imperium. In any event, it pushes the buttons of enough Inquisitors that they feel compelled to do something about it.

 

The motives for the Inquisitors involved will vary - some will just be that worried about how much damage the Stonebound could do if they turned against the Imperium for any reason. Others could simply dislike the Chapter, and others still could have greedier motives like looting the buried keeps or even just be concerned the Stonebound are overstepping their boundaries.

 

 

Actually, this is something I could use help with.

I could really use some opinions as to whether or not my planned history with the Inquisitors will actually work.

 

I think it should work, but then I would, wouldn't I? :)

 

With regards to the second part; do you mean move from Kagara or move to Kagara?

 

Move from more White Scarsy home world to more Dwarfy home world (logically Kagara, but wherever).

 

Could do, I suppose. I'd like to avoid spending even more time on the Homeworld section, though, so if I were to include that I'd keep the first world fairly generic and in the early history section.

 

White Scars without the high speed, eh? I'd say they were tenacious, headstrong, agressive, merciless warriors who believe in the dream of a united Imperium.

 

Probably a reasonable explanation. And would be interesting.

 

Lose the White Scarsness. Do it for the literary glory!

 

It's gonna cause so many headaches. I can almost feel them already. :P

I'll give it some thought, but the jury is officially out for the time being.

 

Batman isn't a dwarf, nor is he a Dwarvish attribute. tongue.gif

 

Gadgetry? Holding grudges way too long? Gruff voice?

 

But he skulks in the shadows and tries not to kill even the people who wrong him. Not dwarvish. :P

Also, he has a secret identity, something neither dwarves nor White Scars have.

 

I suspect that battlecry might be better suited to another Chapter!

 

Nah. Trust me.

I didn't realise you thought I was that crazy! ;)

[Octavulg]

Could do, I suppose. I'd like to avoid spending even more time on the Homeworld section, though, so if I were to include that I'd keep the first world fairly generic and in the early history section.

 

Indeed.

 

It's gonna cause so many headaches. I can almost feel them already. laugh.gif

 

Art is headaches.

 

Seriously: White Scars without speed + Dwarves gives you two ideas to build a chapter around. Two works better than one.

 

But he skulks in the shadows and tries not to kill even the people who wrong him. Not dwarvish. tongue.gif

Also, he has a secret identity, something neither dwarves nor White Scars have.

 

Shadows are similar thematically to underground (indeed, he has a cave). And his secret identity parallels the hidden cultural depths of the White Scars and the hidden wealth of the Dwarves.

[Madwolf Shadowmane]

Personally I think the Chapter's history with the Inquisitors will work. It feels right for a couple of fanatical Inquisitors to roll in and find a reason to plunder several worlds if they thought they could get away with it. I would play it more towards the Inquisitors had a hidden agenda (like you started with the mention of possible lost stores of gene-seed). I agree with the suggestion of making them White Scars done slow and steady. This might help with your combat doctrine section. Personally I liked all the different versions of the Stonebound I've read so far. Just my two cents.

 

Madwolf

[Ace Debonair]

Art is headaches.

 

Seriously: White Scars without speed + Dwarves gives you two ideas to build a chapter around. Two works better than one.

 

I've spotted a problem with going the slow and steady route.

 

The bit that would be a nice place to make the transition would in fact only effect four companies of the Chapter; the other six are on Penitent Crusade.

 

The logical solutions, to my mind at least, are:

 

* Have it as a gradual shift not really triggered by any one event

* Have it so the Stonebound are raised to fight slower from the word 'go', since the geneseed makes them 'agressive' rather than 'GO FAST NOW'. Conversely, they could simply have a shortage of bikes.

 

I'm tired, though, and my brain hurts (it begins!) so I have no idea if I've succesfully nipped a problem in the bud or just failed spectacularly. :P

 

But he skulks in the shadows and tries not to kill even the people who wrong him. Not dwarvish. tongue.gif

Also, he has a secret identity, something neither dwarves nor White Scars have.

 

Shadows are similar thematically to underground (indeed, he has a cave). And his secret identity parallels the hidden cultural depths of the White Scars and the hidden wealth of the Dwarves.

Huh. And... the bat-signal?

 

Fact remains, though, Batman still isn't an aspect of dwarvishness. He might have some traits in common with 'em if you sort of squint, but that doesn't make him part of Dwarf culture. ;)

 

Personally I think the Chapter's history with the Inquisitors will work. It feels right for a couple of fanatical Inquisitors to roll in and find a reason to plunder several worlds if they thought they could get away with it. I would play it more towards the Inquisitors had a hidden agenda (like you started with the mention of possible lost stores of gene-seed). I agree with the suggestion of making them White Scars done slow and steady. This might help with your combat doctrine section. Personally I liked all the different versions of the Stonebound I've read so far. Just my two cents.

 

Madwolf

No doubt some of the Inquisitors will be in it for their own nefarious purposes, but I actually like the idea that they really and honestly believe they're doing the right thing (for the most part), if only because 99% of inquisitors in DIYs are depicted as secretive, scheming traitors. :(

 

Admittedly these guys will be too, but only I'm biased towards my Chapter. :cuss

[Aqui]

I've spotted a problem with going the slow and steady route.

 

The bit that would be a nice place to make the transition would in fact only effect four companies of the Chapter; the other six are on Penitent Crusade.

 

The logical solutions, to my mind at least, are:

 

* Have it as a gradual shift not really triggered by any one event

* Have it so the Stonebound are raised to fight slower from the word 'go', since the geneseed makes them 'agressive' rather than 'GO FAST NOW'. Conversely, they could simply have a shortage of bikes.

 

I'm tired, though, and my brain hurts (it begins!) so I have no idea if I've succesfully nipped a problem in the bud or just failed spectacularly. :sweat:

 

Or, you could have a flaw in the geneseed, that over time, Stonebound Marines' reaction times get slower the older they get. Eventually, the oldest of them are interred within a Dreadnought, as a way of allowing the Warriors to continue to fight.

 

As for explaining the StoneBound bit, it could be explained that the Natives' word for Stone and Steel are exactly the same ;)

 

Not sure if that helps any....

[Octavulg]

I've spotted a problem with going the slow and steady route.

 

The bit that would be a nice place to make the transition would in fact only effect four companies of the Chapter; the other six are on Penitent Crusade.

 

Silly Ace. They're on a Penitent Crusade. Most of them won't be coming back, and they won't be expanding in the interim (you're not allowed to recruit when you're on a Penitent Crusade). The 400 who stayed will be a majority of the Chapter by the time it's all done.

[Ace Debonair]

I've spotted a problem with going the slow and steady route.

 

The bit that would be a nice place to make the transition would in fact only effect four companies of the Chapter; the other six are on Penitent Crusade.

 

Silly Ace. They're on a Penitent Crusade. Most of them won't be coming back, and they won't be expanding in the interim (you're not allowed to recruit when you're on a Penitent Crusade). The 400 who stayed will be a majority of the Chapter by the time it's all done.

 

Huh. I didn't know that.

So... I've actually already solved my problem without even realising? :D

 

That's not like the Stonebound I remember at all. :lol:

 

 

I'm going to skip geneseed flaws, since the Red Lords already have one built in and I was sorta considering one for the Infinity Knights and Steel Dragons.

I should probably have at least one Chapter without a genetic flaw! :D

[Octavulg]

IIRC, the Lamenters were forbidden from recruiting while on theirs, which had a deleterious effect on their numbers.

[Dosjetka]

Also, usually the whole Chapter must go on a Penitent Crusade, not just a few Companies. If your Chapter is destroyed, then you were considered tainted by the Emperor and so you died. End of story. However, if you survive, then you go home and re-build (I think the home world, in the meantime, is guarded by another Chapter or the Inquisition).

 

Ludovic

[Ace Debonair]

Also, usually the whole Chapter must go on a Penitent Crusade, not just a few Companies. If your Chapter is destroyed, then you were considered tainted by the Emperor and so you died. End of story. However, if you survive, then you go home and re-build (I think the home world, in the meantime, is guarded by another Chapter or the Inquisition).

 

Ludovic

I'd send the whole Chapter, but having the Stonebound unable to defend the worlds they'd won makes the Inquisitors seizing reclaiming them in the name of the Imperium seem more righteous and justified (to the wider Imperium, rather than to the reader) and is kind of contributing to keeping the Chapter from taking the worlds back themselves.

 

So I need some kind of reason for the Inquisitors to not send away the whole Chapter...?

 

..Drat. I can't think of anything. :lol:

This problem will require sleeping upon. ;)

[Aqui]

Also, usually the whole Chapter must go on a Penitent Crusade, not just a few Companies. If your Chapter is destroyed, then you were considered tainted by the Emperor and so you died. End of story. However, if you survive, then you go home and re-build (I think the home world, in the meantime, is guarded by another Chapter or the Inquisition).

 

Ludovic

I'd send the whole Chapter, but having the Stonebound unable to defend the worlds they'd won makes the Inquisitors seizing reclaiming them in the name of the Imperium seem more righteous and justified (to the wider Imperium, rather than to the reader) and is kind of contributing to keeping the Chapter from taking the worlds back themselves.

 

So I need some kind of reason for the Inquisitors to not send away the whole Chapter...?

 

..Drat. I can't think of anything. :)

This problem will require sleeping upon. :lol:

 

The Inquisitors make a "compromise" - they send a portion of the Chapter away on some "Mission" that will "redeem" them - perhaps to recover a relic of importance.... It is in reality a wild goose chase, to weaken the Chapters ability to protect the Worlds they currently oversee. Whilst they are gone, they try to undermine the Chapters standing with the natives of those worlds by the use of sedition (via planted agents who will stir up trouble deliberately amongst the natives) to get the Natives to petition the Inquisition force the Chapter out. It would then allow the Inquisition to step in without appearing to engineered the situation.

[Octavulg]

The Inquisition doesn't want to risk losing the entire area, just losing enough that they can wrest it from the Stonebound.

[Ace Debonair]

The Inquisitors make a "compromise" - they send a portion of the Chapter away on some "Mission" that will "redeem" them - perhaps to recover a relic of importance.... It is in reality a wild goose chase, to weaken the Chapters ability to protect the Worlds they currently oversee. Whilst they are gone, they try to undermine the Chapters standing with the natives of those worlds by the use of sedition (via planted agents who will stir up trouble deliberately amongst the natives) to get the Natives to petition the Inquisition force the Chapter out. It would then allow the Inquisition to step in without appearing to engineered the situation.

It's good, but I think I might try and keep the Inquisitor's actions (on the surface level at least) as 'noble' as possible, so there'd only be rumours of agents shaking things up and sabotaging key defences etc.

 

It occurs that the very fact it's not done the same way as normal Penitent Crusades can actually be a subtle nod that shenanigans are taking place.

 

 

The Inquisition doesn't want to risk losing the entire area, just losing enough that they can wrest it from the Stonebound.

 

They could also say it was in recognition of those amongst them who defended the Stonebound (and unfortunately perished soon afterwards of unrelated causes). ;)

 

EDIT:

Random brainstorming time! Looking at the Combat Doctrine again:

* The Chapter favours fast attack tactics, hitting enemies with the sudden, unrelenting force of a landslide. Bikes and Land Speeders are used to soften up targets whilst Rhinos deliver marines to where they are most needed, etc etc.

* Millenia of fighting defensive battles against Orks means they don't eschew slower units with the same vehemency as their parent Chapter. Sometimes Captains will use Devastators and Predators et al as an implacable wall of might to batter down tougher enemies whilst their bikes and other quick units hunt down the more vulnerable targets.

* The Chapter has come into possession of a few Dreadnoughts, into which volunteers are interred, the better to connect to the 'glory days' of the Chapter that have long since sunk into the past. They are used the same way as other Chapters use them in peace and war, and viewed by those that would willingly use them as a neccesary evil. They are still respected, but more because there's a Stoenbound within the machine than from any reverance of the machine itself.

 

It occurs I only really need to change that first point to: 'The Chapter favours a slow-but-steady approach to combat, sacrificing reckless speed for unrelenting force, overwhelming even the most stalwart defences with an implacable advance of marines and armour.'

 

And also that the second point then becomes, you know, pointless.

 

It might be worth me adding instead that the Chapter shifted away from fast attack after The Crusade in response to taking heavy losses vis-a-vis sieges.

I could also add that they haven't forsaken fast attack altogether, but instead use their bikes mostly to run down enemies looking to escape the battlefield or shepherd enemies towards the wall of steel advancing on them.

 

Sound good? Anyone?

[Grey Hunter Ydalir]

The mail always feels off to me. Axe, sure. Mail...doesn't feel right. Mail's kind of a pain to make, anyway. I'd cut it to just the axe. Or axe and shield, if you must have two things

 

Perhaps, if you like the mail, it wouldn't be for their own personal use.

 

They are tasked to create arms and armour for the clan they were taken from, in part a payment for their absence but also as a lesson in patience and the support of others rather than simply creating things for yourself. Creating mail IS a massive pain in the arse, and I've actually made some in my time and by the Emperor it was tiresome, but it does teach patience at the least.

 

I don't know, it seems like an idea to keep them linked to their clans in a way, though it was just a random idea that sprung up when I read the thread.

 

On another note, glad to see the Stonebound haven't dissapeared Ace! Always liked these guys even though you can sometimes see the rough patches as you work in dwarvishness with Space Marines and 40k.

 

It might be worth me adding instead that the Chapter shifted away from fast attack after The Crusade in response to taking heavy losses vis-a-vis sieges.

I could also add that they haven't forsaken fast attack altogether, but instead use their bikes mostly to run down enemies looking to escape the battlefield or shepherd enemies towards the wall of steel advancing on them.

 

I quite like this attitude, it's an interesting take on some of the foundations of Blitzkrieg, penetrating an enemies line and sowing confusion and rolling them up from the flanks and rear. Instead of rolling them up you're preventing their escape and keeping them in place while your 'wall of steel' crushes them like a falling anvil. I'm trying not to picture an old cartoon right now... ;)

[Lysimachus]

It's looking good Ace, I think the summary you've got is plenty ready for fleshing out. Taking out the Sabres/Lords is sensible, you've got plenty of cool material here without them.

 

I particularly like the 'lost keeps' idea, nothing more dwarf-y than a group of warriors searching for lost treasures through ancient carved stone hallways beneath the earth while creeping, skittering things lurk in the darkness just outside the light of their lamps. (Damn, getting tempted to write some fan-fic myself here...!).

 

Having said that, I'm guessing that in the present, the Stonebound themselves don't know where all the keeps are? I figure that makes sense, just to be clear though, what sort of time scale are you looking at for the events related to the Chapter? Founding is the 6th, which according to the thread floating around atm is approx mid-M.33. Presumably you're looking at maybe 1k years of the expansion period, maybe another 1k for the 'penitent' era, still got nearly 5k years til the present Imperium, makes for plenty of time to have forgotten the exact location of most of their keeps (though of course, not anywhere near enough time not to be thoroughly bitter about the whole thing - very dwarf-y!). I'd guess that maybe they might have an idea where they might be; i.e. 'our really old maps show one in this system, but it could be on any of the six planets, nine moons, etc, etc'

 

As to the combat doctrine, I think you and GHY have it right:

 

I quite like this attitude, it's an interesting take on some of the foundations of Blitzkrieg, penetrating an enemies line and sowing confusion and rolling them up from the flanks and rear. Instead of rolling them up you're preventing their escape and keeping them in place while your 'wall of steel' crushes them like a falling anvil.

 

Preferred tactics = mobile, rolling firepower (bolter squads in transports backed up by heavy tanks), supported on the flanks by faster stuff to hem in the enemy/hunt stragglers, still plenty WScars-y, but can make it clear that when necessary they're quite willing and capable of holing up somewhere more defensible temporarily before continuing their advance.

[Ace Debonair]

Wait, what are these guys doing on the first page again? ;)

 

I'll have another bash at updating the Stonebound at some point, but yet again real life has heaped plenty on my plate, so it'll be a little while.

 

That and the Liber Campaign actually starting to go somewhere again, so I'm going to try and focus on that first. ;)

[Ace Debonair]

Wait, what are these guys doing on the first page again?

I'll have another bash at updating the Stonebound at some point, but yet again real life has heaped plenty on my plate, so it'll be a little while.

That and the Liber Campaign actually starting to go somewhere again, so I'm going to try and focus on that first.

...And just look at how that turned out.

So yeah, I thought I'd update these guys.

I'll have to ask anyone with some technical knowhow for a bit of aid, though. My sidebar is still there, but it's gone all screwy, likewise my section headers are not what they once were! So, any help in fixing them would be muchly appreciated!

Lastly, the doors are of course once again open to C&C, so if something seems WRONG AND HERETICAL then tell me and I'll see what can be done to remedy the situation.

...Also I have no spellcheck, so feel free to play 'hunt the typo'.

[Messor]

Though I don't have time to do an in depth review at the mo', I caught a couple of typos for ya. The last paragraph of the Age of Stone: Ork strongholds and Chaos incursions alike would suffer at teh hands of the Stonebound.

 

And the last paragraph of the combat doctrine: The Stonebound do have into possession of a few Dreadnoughts

 

Really interesting concept though, glad you've come back to it! I'll try to give some legit C&C soon, if not today.

[Madwolf Shadowmane]

Ace,

 

As I recently returned to my Hounds, I can help with the sidebars.  Sadly the headers seem to be broken (At least I couldn't get them to work).  The sidebars work as they did before the update you just need to re-enter the info.  example:  [ rightsidebar=title]place body of text here[/rightsidebar] **Note i entered a space between the first bracket and the letter r so it wouldn't become an actual sidebar.  I will give the Stonebound another read after dinner.

 

Madwolf

[Ace Debonair]

Though I don't have time to do an in depth review at the mo', I caught a couple of typos for ya. The last paragraph of the Age of Stone: Ork strongholds and Chaos incursions alike would suffer at teh hands of the Stonebound.

And the last paragraph of the combat doctrine: The Stonebound do have into possession of a few Dreadnoughts

Really interesting concept though, glad you've come back to it! I'll try to give some legit C&C soon, if not today.

Nice catch!

Consider those errors duly eradicated.

Ace,

As I recently returned to my Hounds, I can help with the sidebars. Sadly the headers seem to be broken (At least I couldn't get them to work). The sidebars work as they did before the update you just need to re-enter the info. example: [ rightsidebar=title]place body of text here[/rightsidebar] **Note i entered a space between the first bracket and the letter r so it wouldn't become an actual sidebar. I will give the Stonebound another read after dinner.

Madwolf

Madwolf, you're a wizard.

Behold, the return of my vaunted sidebar, spanning three sections' worth of text in glorious saga format!

[Messor]

As long as you're copy-pasting the article, instead of trying to edit things in the editor, the headers should still work. I've updated several of my threads since the site upgrade and the headers still appear to be working. If pasting from a wordpad style document isn't working, there may be a problem indeed.

Anyway. In terms of C&C, I really like this. Glancing through the other pages, I can see the headache you mean, but I think thus far its paid off. I really get the Dwarven vibe, from the Chapter and the new home, and the way you've kind of cut away some of the more White Scars aspects was quite smooth. I'm not 100% sure I see why the Stoneboung just didn't say the police to the Inquisitorial Upstarts, but the idea is solid. I think the Inquisition just didn't come off as threatening enough. Also, something that might be entertaining, a single Inquisitor could show up long before the rest, maybe take a quiet look around, ask some awkward questions, garner some suspicion and leave, with the Stonebound scratching their heads wondering what that was all about. Next thing you know, trials and tribulations.

Nice work, though, I can tell these guys have come a long long way, and are much much better for it.

[Octavulg]

The other thing is that if you put any punctuation marks in the title, the code for sidebars breaks. It's annoying as hell.

[Ace Debonair]

The other thing is that if you put any punctuation marks in the title, the code for sidebars breaks. It's annoying as hell.

Oh, right. That explains why my sidebar went off the rails, then.

As long as you're copy-pasting the article, instead of trying to edit things in the editor, the headers should still work. I've updated several of my threads since the site upgrade and the headers still appear to be working. If pasting from a wordpad style document isn't working, there may be a problem indeed.

Anyway. In terms of C&C, I really like this. Glancing through the other pages, I can see the headache you mean, but I think thus far its paid off. I really get the Dwarven vibe, from the Chapter and the new home, and the way you've kind of cut away some of the more White Scars aspects was quite smooth. I'm not 100% sure I see why the Stoneboung just didn't say the police to the Inquisitorial Upstarts, but the idea is solid. I think the Inquisition just didn't come off as threatening enough. Also, something that might be entertaining, a single Inquisitor could show up long before the rest, maybe take a quiet look around, ask some awkward questions, garner some suspicion and leave, with the Stonebound scratching their heads wondering what that was all about. Next thing you know, trials and tribulations.

Nice work, though, I can tell these guys have come a long long way, and are much much better for it.

Noted! I've updated the IA a bit more, elaborating on the Inquisitors a little bit and giving the Stonebound a bit more of a gruff initial response to the accusations.

In my defence I only ever write after 9PM, by which point I am much too tired to do anything properly first time 'round!

I agree I haven't made the Inquisitors doing the menacing, well, er, menacing enough. I find it kinda hard to do menacing in an IA, personally.

Part of me wants to make the inquisitors seem like they don't pose any real threat so the Stonebound wouldn't ever guess they were essentially being betrayed in all but name, but I also kinda like the idea of them throwing their weight around in a bullying-a-dragon sort of way, so I don't really know what (if anything) more should be done with the inquisitors at this point.

In other words, the bit with the Inquisitors needs C&C, and so does pretty much everything else.