Sons of Horus Posted February 1, 2011 Share Posted February 1, 2011 I don't see why learning from the emperor and knowing how to use his brother's skills to their best count against Horus when these things show why he is better. Just because someone is educated doesn't disqualify him from being better it just gives him an advantage. In the end best is still best. Besides the emperor chose him as Warmaster over all the others. Considering the emperor had more important things to do and he had to leave his empire's vast military might in the hands of one man says a lot about how skilled that man is (Horus). I'd still say he was the greatest Primarch although nowhere near perfect. Although Sanguinius bested him in sparring once... <_< Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hengist Ironfang Posted February 1, 2011 Share Posted February 1, 2011 More for sanguinius 1) He killed a Bloodthirster with his bare hands (fulgrom only managed a poxy avatar :rolleyes: ) 2) I thought it was Sanguinius who conducted the defense of the Emperors Palace? 3) Held the Outter Gate for Hours single-handed to allow loyalists to fall back in good order 4) went to his death knowingly and even though Horus tried to tempt him with life and power still he would not bend knee. not the most successful Primarch perhaps but surely the greatest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jonas Stromclaw Posted February 2, 2011 Share Posted February 2, 2011 Its rather silly to talk about a "best" primarch/legion. Each is a tool, with its own specialty and purpose. To say one is better than another is like saying a hammer is better than a wrench. Now, if you qualified that as to who is best at which things, then thats alright. A hammer is better than a wrench and pounding nails. An Iron Warrior digs a better trench than a Thousand Son. Just be specific. If you want who is best at spreading the Imperial Truth. then I'd say Ultramarines, as they took over worlds and rebuilt them in Terra's image. If you want who is the best fighters, I'd say Space Wolves, although that statement, being less specific, is up for debate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Plague Angel Posted February 2, 2011 Share Posted February 2, 2011 We disclude Konrad Kurze, he is just too mental and bonds with only a couple of Primarchs. We now disclude Lorgar, a lot of Primarchs kept him at distance as his worship was distasteful, plus the amount of victories pre Monarchia for the size of the legion is inept to a degree. That leaves the Primarch everyone loves to hate (barring Erebus the Ultra's and Guilliman seem to have the most detractors) ROBOUTE GUILLIMAN If "nobody likes them" is a reason to discount Kurze and Lorgar, why doesn't it discount Guilliman? Bit of a double-standard there. Of the remaining 5 we disclude Horus. This will be met with derission and scorn but the logic pans out. He was the target of Chaos, The others in the list above (Lion?) would never be tempted and didnt turn to chaos. So he was weaker in the mind. The Emperor didn't seem to think so. Like Dorn He was overly vain another weakness. He did seek the approval of his brothers referring to 3 above in the list. Asking others to help is vanity now? he thought that Dorn could defend no matter what (his legion the best in attack against the best in defence). So? He mused that Sanguinius and not he should be Warmaster. So? His tally of victories albeit the greatest was skewed drasmatically by the length of time with The Emperor So? He out of all the Primarch used the others to further his campaigns and won a great many victories due to the help of the Death Guard, World Eaters, Iron Warriors, Ultra's and Raven Guard. No other legion had this boon. So? He was also the first Primarch found and spent 20 years learning from the Emperor. The whole twenty years! So? some Primarchs got little time with the Emperor so this counts heavily against him. Why? With all the stuff in his favour he fell the furthest So? He may of been the charismatic leader but isn't that the same of Luther. So? So inevitably we disclude him. Why? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jarl Kjaran Coldheart Posted February 2, 2011 Share Posted February 2, 2011 already, pretty much everybody has discounted this post as kinda silly. can we just leave it alone and let it go away? WLK Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Idaho Posted February 2, 2011 Share Posted February 2, 2011 That leaves the Primarch everyone loves to hate (barring Erebus the Ultra's and Guilliman seem to have the most detractors) ROBOUTE GUILLIMAN If "nobody likes them" is a reason to discount Kurze and Lorgar, why doesn't it discount Guilliman? Bit of a double-standard there. Though I agree with your logic Plague Angel, applying one rule against some Primarchs but not others seems like a logical double standard, without a very, very good reason, I would like to point out I think eaglefist13 was actually referring to real people hating Guilliman rather than the actual characters from the Heresy. Besides, there is no evidence Guilliman was the most hated Primarch from a background perspective. Lorgar hated him, but then we know he was jealous of Guilliman's perceived favour in the eyes of the Emperor in regards to his own position, whilst the only other Primarch we think we know :rolleyes: had a strained relationship with Guilliman was Alpharius. But in Legion he actually seems to imply the hatred is actually Guilliman towards him and not the other way round. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greatcrusade08 Posted February 2, 2011 Share Posted February 2, 2011 tbh im not sure debating guilliman is a good thing.. it has only one logical outcome.. and thats me swearing at a bunch of ugly ultra haters. lets just put this to bed shall we? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jarl Kjaran Coldheart Posted February 2, 2011 Share Posted February 2, 2011 tbh im not sure debating guilliman is a good thing.. it has only one logical outcome.. and thats me swearing at a bunch of ugly ultra haters.lets just put this to bed shall we? very fair and balanced there. :) WLK Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Idaho Posted February 2, 2011 Share Posted February 2, 2011 Everyone knows the Imperial-Ultrabloodwolves are the best anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tomlev40 Posted February 2, 2011 Share Posted February 2, 2011 But the thing is, ALL the legions are good at their own things. I think Horus said "Even Night Haunter is useful if you want the enemy :cuss ing in their breeches" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Walter Payton Posted February 2, 2011 Share Posted February 2, 2011 Best is subjective. Go onto youtube and type in 'the best special forces in the world.' You'll get huge variations: One guy might go for the oldest one, 22 SAS, another for the most famous, the US Delta Force. Perhaps another might go for the guys with the famously hard training, the French Foreign Legion. Maybe you could go for the Sayeret Maktal. It depends on your preference. Whilst some Legions had a greater impact on the course of Imperial history than others, I can't really see how we can ever arrive at a Q.E.D, mathematical or logical example of who is 'greatest'. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hellios Posted February 2, 2011 Share Posted February 2, 2011 We don't know the hair colour of the greatest primarch, we don't know if he had orange power armour... all we know is that he is called the stig! But seriously I think one quote puts to rest the greatest legion of them all debates... "The first and greatest!" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sons of Horus Posted February 3, 2011 Share Posted February 3, 2011 Posts like this usually get melta-ed in the end... it's pointless really since no one will change their mind :cuss Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PorridgeMeister Posted February 3, 2011 Share Posted February 3, 2011 Codicier Lucion perfectly expresses my opinion on this thread. Sorry dude. :) In my opinion, if you had to say which Legion was the best in terms of their martial record, it would be: 1. Luna Wolves/Sons of Horus 2. Dark Angels 3. Ultramarines If you want to talk tactical genius, the running is: 1. Alpha Legion 2. Luna Wolves/Sons of Horus 3. Dark Angels tied with Raven Guard If you want to talk coolest/ most arse-kicking Primarch, the running is: 1. Sanguinius (Blood Angels) 2. Corax (Raven Guard) 3. Horus (Luna Wolves/Sons of Horus) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Juan Juarez Posted February 3, 2011 Share Posted February 3, 2011 Maybe this isn't the Greatest Legion.. Maybe this is just a tribute? :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Legatus Posted February 3, 2011 Share Posted February 3, 2011 I think there is an obvious answer. But I also think that 80% of the players do not want to hear it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Juan Juarez Posted February 3, 2011 Share Posted February 3, 2011 I think there is an obvious answer. But I also think that 80% of the players do not want to hear it. I'm guessing I know what that answer is, in your opinion. There really is no single answer, because the criteria for judging depend on the person and are still hugely subjective. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Legatus Posted February 3, 2011 Share Posted February 3, 2011 Of course, you could evaluate the Legions based on which Primarch you think was a cool guy, or which Legion did a cool thing at some point. Or you could look at what each Legion had accomplished. Someone may think that the Death Guard is super cool. But if he is being fair, then he will probably have to admitt that the Legion did not accomplish as much as the Imperial Fists. Just to give an example. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simonius Posted February 3, 2011 Share Posted February 3, 2011 Nice sidestep there Legatus. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Juan Juarez Posted February 3, 2011 Share Posted February 3, 2011 Nice sidestep there Legatus. That there is the sound of dimplomacy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
calgar101 Posted February 3, 2011 Share Posted February 3, 2011 Someone may think that the Death Guard is super cool. But if he is being fair, then he will probably have to admit that the Legion did not accomplish as much as the Imperial Fists. Just to give an example. Thing is from the current background that is how it appears but with a book or two about the Death Guard that could change.. but I understand your point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Tezdal Posted February 3, 2011 Share Posted February 3, 2011 "The Black Legion were originally known as the the Luna Wolves, they were the Legion of Horus, greatest of the Primarchs and Warmaster of the Imperium"pg 44 of the 3.5 Chaos Dex. We have a winner. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Legatus Posted February 3, 2011 Share Posted February 3, 2011 And then he destroyed half the Imperium. So much for his accomplishments. I'd like that trophy back, please. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Juan Juarez Posted February 3, 2011 Share Posted February 3, 2011 "The Black Legion were originally known as the the Luna Wolves, they were the Legion of Horus, greatest of the Primarchs and Warmaster of the Imperium"pg 44 of the 3.5 Chaos Dex. We have a winner. Nope, because "greatest" is subjective. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Khestra the Unbeheld Posted February 3, 2011 Share Posted February 3, 2011 And then he destroyed half the Imperium. So much for his accomplishments. I'd like that trophy back, please. Implying that wasn't an accomplishment in and of itself. :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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