Captain Idaho Posted February 3, 2011 Share Posted February 3, 2011 "I built your Imperium, I can destroy it too." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
calgar101 Posted February 3, 2011 Share Posted February 3, 2011 Very ironic when in Horus Rising Loken laments at how in the future that the Imperium will cry out for Abaddon :lol: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Codicier Lucion Posted February 3, 2011 Share Posted February 3, 2011 Hell, isn't this dead yet? Alright time to settle this once and for all. The greatest legion of all time is a three way tie: The Adeptus Custodes, Adeptus Titanticus and the Thunder Warriors. One guards the Emperor and can survive bolt rounds to the face, the other can kill entire astartes squads by stepping on them and the last one was the only force in 40K to conquer Terra. Right, that's it, thread closed everyone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Khestra the Unbeheld Posted February 4, 2011 Share Posted February 4, 2011 Hell, isn't this dead yet? Alright time to settle this once and for all. The greatest legion of all time is a three way tie: The Adeptus Custodes, Adeptus Titanticus and the Thunder Warriors. One guards the Emperor and can survive bolt rounds to the face, the other can kill entire astartes squads by stepping on them and the last one was the only force in 40K to conquer Terra. Right, that's it, thread closed everyone. Custodes - Not an Astartes Legion Titanicus - Not an Astartes Legion Thunder Warriors - proto-Astartes, not a Legion Post invalidated; hapless pawing at subjectivity in denial of the truth of Horus being and having been Numero Uno may now continue. ;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Codicier Lucion Posted February 4, 2011 Share Posted February 4, 2011 Hell, isn't this dead yet? Alright time to settle this once and for all. The greatest legion of all time is a three way tie: The Adeptus Custodes, Adeptus Titanticus and the Thunder Warriors. One guards the Emperor and can survive bolt rounds to the face, the other can kill entire astartes squads by stepping on them and the last one was the only force in 40K to conquer Terra. Right, that's it, thread closed everyone. Custodes - Not an Astartes Legion Titanicus - Not an Astartes Legion Thunder Warriors - proto-Astartes, not a Legion Post invalidated; hapless pawing at subjectivity in denial of the truth of Horus being and having been Numero Uno may now continue. ;) Hey, he said greatest legion. The title and post didn't specify they had to be astartes ones. Also the Thunder Warriors numbered at least a thousand, so that traditionally makes them a legion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PorridgeMeister Posted February 4, 2011 Share Posted February 4, 2011 Very ironic when in Horus Rising Loken laments at how in the future that the Imperium will cry out for Abaddon :huh: Yeah ;); just read Horus Rising again the other day for kicks and I noticed all those massive ironies. "The Black Legion were originally known as the the Luna Wolves, they were the Legion of Horus, greatest of the Primarchs and Warmaster of the Imperium"pg 44 of the 3.5 Chaos Dex. We have a winner. CJJ is right and also; this quote refers to Horus being the greatest Primarch not his Legion. Porridge Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Legatus Posted February 4, 2011 Share Posted February 4, 2011 "The Black Legion were originally known as the the Luna Wolves, they were the Legion of Horus, greatest of the Primarchs and Warmaster of the Imperium" That statement also only refers to the Great Crusade period. It does not account for the Horus Heresy period or the Scouring period. The loyalist Primarchs and Legions were still doing good deeds during those following periods, so it would be kind of unfair to disregard them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sons of Horus Posted February 4, 2011 Share Posted February 4, 2011 Okay so Horus wins Great Crusade hands down. Next is the Heresy era. Did I mention it was called the Horus Heresy? B) Next is scouring. The most capable and arguably dangerous Legion was the Black Legion (Traitor Legion) and probably the ultramarines (loyal dogs). The later mainly because they were so many since they didn't really get their hands dirty in the first place (Calth barely counts). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Plague Angel Posted February 4, 2011 Share Posted February 4, 2011 I don't see how anyone could argue that, at the time of the Scouring, any legion had more power or a greater impact than the Ultramarines. There's that whole Codex Astartes thing, that 997 out of 1000 chapters follow to some degree or another. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Legatus Posted February 4, 2011 Share Posted February 4, 2011 Okay so Horus wins Great Crusade hands down. I would contest that. And don't forget we are judging the mainly the Legions, not the Primarchs. Next is the Heresy era. Did I mention it was called the Horus Heresy? I guess it depends on how you define "great Legion". Were the Luna Wolves and Horus having the most impact on galactic developements during that period? Yes. Were they successfully doing what they had been created for? Not so much. Next is scouring. The most capable and arguably dangerous Legion was the Black Legion (Traitor Legion) IIRC the Sons of Horus were the first to run and spent a few years being beaten up by the other Traitor Legions, until Abaddon took matters into his own hand, renamed them to Black Legion and they fought to the top of the Traitor Legions. Of all the Traitor Legions during the Scouring, I think the Iron Warriors made the most trouble. They were defending their outposts all over the Imperium and were very hard to dislodge. I don't think the actions of the other Traitor Legions are described that much, other than the Night Lords and the Alpha Legion continuing to raid different worlds. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Idaho Posted February 4, 2011 Share Posted February 4, 2011 I seem to remember the World Eaters reaving a bloody path to the Eye, but obviously Khârn ruin things for them in the end! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grey Mage Posted February 4, 2011 Share Posted February 4, 2011 Interesting list of primarchs... not sure I agree with your system here, but to each their own. Still, I know for a fact that it was the 11nth legion that was the greatest of them all. Sadly, after 8,000 years they finally succumbed to the enormity of their task. That they stood steadfast for so long is a testament to their power, as the emperor should have relieved them from duty seven thousand years ago. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Walter Payton Posted February 5, 2011 Share Posted February 5, 2011 To hell with it: "The Ultramarines are the Greatest of All Space Marine Chapters." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Juan Juarez Posted February 5, 2011 Share Posted February 5, 2011 My favourite chapter - off-hand - is probably the last one from Tom Lloyd's The Ragged Man. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Walter Payton Posted February 5, 2011 Share Posted February 5, 2011 My favourite chapter - off-hand - is probably the last one from Tom Lloyds The Ragged Man. Ha! Mine would be either The Even Chance from Mister Midshipman Hornblower by C.S Forester or The Journey from Platform Nine and Three Quarters from Harry Potter and the Philosopher's Stone by J.K Rowling. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aegnor Posted February 6, 2011 Share Posted February 6, 2011 "Lord Mhoram's Victory" in The Power that Preserves by Stephen Donaldson. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yogi Posted February 6, 2011 Share Posted February 6, 2011 Eagle fist what the hell is this... I play ultras and you have failed to convince me! Perhaps instead of randomly deciding with some arbitrary facts added you define what you mean when you say greatest.. and then choose that one. The greatest is simply the one with the greatest tally of victories. So Horus... I think you are matt ward in disguise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Legatus Posted February 6, 2011 Share Posted February 6, 2011 The greatest is simply the one with the greatest tally of victories. That is certainly one way to look at it. Or you could look at it in terms of how much they accomplished for the Imperium or the Emperor. You also have to decide whether to merely look at the Great Crusade or whether to look at the Crusade, the Heresy and the Scouring. It is certainly an interresting discussion which of the 18 Primarchs or Legions was how important during the Great Crusade alone. But once you include the Heresy and the Scouring you would have to differentiate between loyalist Legions and Traitor Legions, since while the Traitor Legion swere still "accomplishing things" during the Heresy and the Scouring, they were going into a completely different direction than they did in the Crusade. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hellios Posted February 6, 2011 Share Posted February 6, 2011 The greatest is simply the one with the greatest tally of victories. That is certainly one way to look at it. Or you could look at it in terms of how much they accomplished for the Imperium or the Emperor. You also have to decide whether to merely look at the Great Crusade or whether to look at the Crusade, the Heresy and the Scouring. It is certainly an interresting discussion which of the 18 Primarchs or Legions was how important during the Great Crusade alone. But once you include the Heresy and the Scouring you would have to differentiate between loyalist Legions and Traitor Legions, since while the Traitor Legion swere still "accomplishing things" during the Heresy and the Scouring, they were going into a completely different direction than they did in the Crusade. Also great is subjective... which muddles everything... The greatest tally of victories isn't right either... let me give example... X legion has 1,000 victories.... Y Legion has 100.... so which is the Greatest? X legion? Well what if the X legion had a 100 year headstart, twice as many men and most of its battles were against the Pacifists of the Ghandi nebula? and Y Legion having 100 years to catch up on, half the men and fighting the terrible great destroyers of everything! Also what if the legions were made with different roles in mind? Also there is a saying... The greatest warrior is not the one who wins a 1,000 battles but who never has to fight at all. X legion could attack every planet it sees regardless of the situation and so tally more victories while Y used diplomacy to bring world peacefully into the fold. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Legatus Posted February 6, 2011 Share Posted February 6, 2011 It depends on the criteria we agree on. But some Legions can make claims for some very objective and quantifiable achievements. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chaplain belisarius Posted February 6, 2011 Share Posted February 6, 2011 isnt it still horus, the lion then russ or did they retcon that too? :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Legatus Posted February 6, 2011 Share Posted February 6, 2011 Those are the top three in numbers of victories. They are not necessarily the top three in numbers of liberated worlds, though. So it depends on whether you see crushed alien worlds or added Imperial worlds as more important. Edit: Also, Horus' tally of victories is questioned by both the Luna Wolves and the Raven Guard Index Astartes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chaplain belisarius Posted February 6, 2011 Share Posted February 6, 2011 good point there as usual legatus! :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Walter Payton Posted February 6, 2011 Share Posted February 6, 2011 It's subjective. In my eyes, the Ultramarines are the greatest legion of them all: They liberated many worlds, They were clearly excellent strategists and tacticians, as they took the least casualties, They were (possibly) the most able legion in terms of logistics and efficiency of recruitment, They did not win the war, but definitely won the peace. But then, those are my criteria. Others have different criteria. For instance, one could say: Luna Wolves/Sons of Horus: Most victories, Most charismatic, Primarch had greatest effect of any character in the universe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hellios Posted February 6, 2011 Share Posted February 6, 2011 They were clearly excellent strategists and tacticians, as they took the least casualties, They were (possibly) the most able legion in terms of logistics and efficiency of recruitment, It is indeed subjective... I think the Ultramarines are indeed very good at logistics. Are they efficient at recruitment? I don't know... They may have recruited more people but that does not make them more efficient, on another but related note some chapters may have chosen to recruit less than they could have done. I'm pretty sure one of the Dark Angels books goes on about how they were able to reduce training period to two years. Now was this standard marine training that all legions had or did legion training vary a lot? How long did other legions take? What quality of soldier did they produce? I would also put forward that a number of legions were very good at tactics and stratergy and while RG might be up there he might also not be the best... and again as I say most worlds/least casualties means little as that depends on the situation. So I'm not having a go at your belief that RGs blue boys = the greatest but that the facts to back up such claims mean little in such a vague background... the same goes for all the legions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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