Grey Knight Rumors Thread

[Gentlemanloser]

With S7 Rending Psycannons, S10 ICs and DreadKnight MCs, Grey Kngihts won't need Melta spam to pop vehicles.

 

I can assure you a 12" Moving S7 MC will be enough to pop everything bar a Monolith.

 

And for that, we have the Vindicare. 4d6 Rending? Bye bye 'lith!

[Oiad]

That IC thing seems like an oversight. The Brotherhood Champion gets it and Crowe is just the upgraded version, plus Titan's Herald specifically states that its effects work on the unit that the character has joined.

There's a bunch more of these such as the copy/pasted & unedited Blood Angel razorback.

Yeah, some people thought the same oversight happened with Mephiston and the Sanguinor at first. Of course we all know they're a different class - they can devour up to 18-24" of board space in one movement phase, take a pounding like a champ and retaliate by destroying whole units by themselves. With these rules Crowe would probably get wiped off the board by the first half-decent unit charging him while footslogging it. I think in the writer's mind it makes sense to have him an a none-IC; "The sword is too dangerous for Crowe to hang around other Grey Knights," or some similar fluff baloney - hence the non-IC status.

 

Some have suggested [on other boards mainly] that that this article looks some huge April Fool's prank. Looking at a lot of this makes me hope so. Failing that hopefully the edition Katie Drake & co. are toting is not the final edition - that the rest creative team stacked up on the red marker pens and went to work correcting some of the more silly flaws before allowing it to go to the print.

 

EDIT - Phrasing

[boreas]

With S7 Rending Psycannons, S10 ICs and DreadKnight MCs, Grey Kngihts won't need Melta spam to pop vehicles.

 

I can assure you a 12" Moving S7 MC will be enough to pop everything bar a Monolith.

 

And for that, we have the Vindicare. 4d6 Rending? Bye bye 'lith!

 

Don't forget that it has access to hammer and sword, so we're possibly looking at a 18" range St8 or even 9 MC w/ 4+ attacks on the charge! As for the Monolith? There is enough anti-Meq in this list to phase out a Necron army quite quickly!

 

Phil

[The Rose Princes]

because i'm slightly obsessed by it....

 

PSILENCER - What we know about it so far from the leaks:

ranged weapon

in most cases of point cost more than an incinerator, less than a psycannon; same with the heavy/gatling versions on the Dreadknight. (except on GKSS where it's the cheapest)

only GK units can carry them. not inquisitors, henchmen, dreadnaughts or vehicles.

 

seeing as psycannon is 3-4 shots and the incinerator is a template, it would most likely be a lighter multifire weapon (STR 5, Heavy 6ish?) with a medium range (24"), and a lighter AP (6), but since it's only allowed on psyker models/units, it probably automatically has the psybolt ammo and ignores Invulnerable Saves; making the gatling one either twin-linked or Heavy 12.

 

with the recent slew of 20 shot guns in the some of the previous codecies, the gatling one may be our newest addition to the club... which would be vile on a monstrous creature with such staying power.

[mysteriousmaskedmystery]

i could see crowe being non-ic, but i think the whole 'leaked' codex looks bogus and sort of hope so. but that's another issue entirely.

 

crowe is still semi-viable, you'd have to run him like you run mephiston right now, either surrounded by a larger squad, or in a stormraven.

 

i think if the champions are actually something that's in the codex, the one wound thing is to ballance the fact that they are meant to be a sacrifice to take out bigger characters. you just hide them in a unit and send them against abbadon or something, as long as he hits, and he re-rolls to hits and all that jazz, then he will take him out, no saves at all... plus while he's alive you just use the re-roll saves thing and let him grant his litanies. hide him in a unit of termis, he's practically invulnerable and all he has to do, is survive long enough to find his target and then use his IC status to get into B2B.

[sonofblood]

I'd venture that the leaked Codex being fake, there is some recycled artwork they use in multiple parts of the book.. and there were quite a few obvious spelling mistakes that I don't think even the current codecies could rival.

[Justcar]

You don't need melta to make this army effective, but the writers DID give you that option if you want.

 

I don't think it is fake, but it is probably a WAY early edition. I think Crowe proves that!

 

This is probably more like a gamma/delta codex.

[jakehunter52]

I'd venture that the leaked Codex being fake, there is some recycled artwork they use in multiple parts of the book.. and there were quite a few obvious spelling mistakes that I don't think even the current codecies could rival.

 

No way bro. It's a draft, easy to tell w/ all the notations and such. Surely, they will have gotten fixed by the time they got to the press. Recycled artwork means nothing, the development of the ruleset and artwork are independent of each other, they just make room for NEW PIC HERE. It's a more efficient way to work.

 

As far as rumour go, I don't know what boreas is talking about for a 18" range . I don't think that it becomes jump infantry because of the teleporter since it is already listed as a MC, it just get's that 30" in move but then again, it would make sense to gain Fleet since 75pts for a one time move is kinda killer. But I am pretty psyked about the Dreadknight, if that sword gives the +1 invo save, oh man. Get two of those, DS them, and proceed to rampage. That's so tough to kill and is going to be soaking up so much fire....man. This preview has me tugging in so many directions: Dreadknights, Purifiers, Paladins, Stormravens, even the GK Strike Squads. The only problem is the model count. Right now, I am at 35 or so. It's going to be a hammer when it lands but I still got to be careful, melta goes through my PA just like any other.

 

As far as the fluff goes, I am honestly kinda mixed about it. It's like being told Santa isn't real. We all had this idea that Grey Knights were some kind of purity (whatever that means in the 40k universe) and above reproach. Now we get to reading that they are not all that, that there are those who are deemed "resistant to chaos but not immune" and we go ":D!". But perception is everything and when a codex is there to give the truth about a faction, well...the results may not be completely satisfactory. But I still find it absurd/boss that Draigo pwned a daemon Primarch, made his sword from a Bloodthrister's axe and is the only living exception in the Chaos realm (besides the Emperor of course). ;)

[Justcar]

The personal teleporter for the dreadknight could just make it move as jump infantry... so it could easily still move 12" a turn. 75pts WOULD be too high for a one time move.

[boreas]

I pretty confident that the teleporter will make the DK move as w/ jump-pack. After all, daemon princes w/ wings are MC that move as jump infantry. So the 205pts DK will probably move 12" and assault 6" with 4 St7+2d6 attacks. That should easily take care of most problematic vehicles. By that, I mainly mean Heasy support. The way I plan it, my St7 psycannons can deal with rhino, possibly even chimeras. The DKs will quickly cross the table to assault IG artillery, Tau Hammerhead, ect. At the same time, they represent scoring (w/ GKGM) MC in my opponent's zone...

 

Phil

[Gentlemanloser]

Additional interesting wargear we don't know about (aside from Servo Skulls, Brain Mines, Psybolt/flame ammo, all the 'nades and the Brotherhood Banner);

 

Demonblade

Hellrifle

Codemnor Boltgun

Null Rod (WooT!)

 

All from the Inquisitor options.

[Resv]

*Finished the post - please read it now!*

 

I have been sitting out of this discussion mainly because I don't like fanning the flames of rumors. I read the draft PDF and for the most part was very excited about it. I am sad that really none of the Special Characters are really compelling from a game play point of view but in an odd way that kind of goes hand in hand with who the Gray Knights are. Its tough making a super amazing hero in a chapter FULL of super amazing heroes and I think the "Grand Strategy" is a sort of an acknowledgment of that. Really, the only character I would want to take is Crowe and that would be JUST to take Purifiers as troops so I could still bring other elite units. Grand Masters though, if they stay the same as in the .PDF then I will be jumping for joy.

 

At this point though, after reading the draft PDF a couple of times, I think there area a few misconceptions about what the final draft will look like. Judging from the WIDE spread use of the various Nemesis Weapons I sincerely doubt that some of the stuff BoK has put out there. Every Gray Knight can take a different kind of Nemesis Weapon. Each one seems to have a neat and different use, from granting improved initiative to re-rolls to wound, and this provides us with a cool and unique way to customize our Gray Knights. You can have a unit with Hammers (which supposedly give +1 to STR) and with Hammer Hand this unit is hitting at S6 with out the extra boost from the Librarian as an example. The Warding Staff though giving a 2++ I think was a bit much to start with even from the rumor mill stand point. From the way it is priced in the draft PDF I could see it granting a 4++ or even a 3++, however I DON'T see is being taken on a one per unit basis. Why? The price for one, it is not a cheap piece of war gear (costing over the price of a basic GKSS member for PAGKs). It seems to me that this is sort of a trap, like taking Storm Shields on every Vanguard Vet, it seems dangerous but will it really catch on? They represent a powerful option, no question about that, but I think in practice we wont see them in great numbers. I wont pretend to know what is the final codex is going to look like, these are just conclusions I have drawn from what I have read and seen in other books written by Ward.

 

As scary as all of the GK units might be I think the real scary stuff in this codex is the Henchmen. I really hope these guys get toned down a bit because as it stands right now these guys are powerful. The Warrior Acolyte is CHEAP and can take Power Armor in addition to almost every weapon available in the Empire. Even at BS/WS3 you can take a ton of these guys. I know that many people miss the good old IST from the last edition but having seen whats even in the draft copy I think there is nothing to really miss about them. I think people have really gotten hung up on things like the 2++ Warding Staff. Having seen the Henchmen entry I don't think the Warding Staff is all that bad.

 

I also heard a Rumor the the Servo Skull allows the User to take an additional Psykic Power, which is a pretty cool idea, kind of like Familiars from the Chaos Codex.

 

In addition to Gentlemanloser list of unknow equipment:

-Ulumeatni Plasma Syphon (Ordo Xenos Inquisitor)

-Scythian Venom Talon (Ordo Xenos Inquisitor)

[Justcar]

What do you all think about adversaries? I highly doubt they will be in this book, but I would really like to see them. It would make battles so much fluffier!

[Lord Ragnarok]

I'd venture that the leaked Codex being fake, there is some recycled artwork they use in multiple parts of the book.. and there were quite a few obvious spelling mistakes that I don't think even the current codecies could rival.

 

Early play test, or early version. Artwork not complete yet probably.

[Stormbrow II]

It seems to be an early playtest version alright.

 

With S7 Rending Psycannons, S10 ICs and DreadKnight MCs, Grey Kngihts won't need Melta spam to pop vehicles.

You will.

 

You only get 2 shots if a Psycannon moves drastically reducing the potential number of Rending hits you can get.

 

S10 ICs? All 1 of them? He can't be everywhere at once so he's not too much of an asset in that regard.

Dreadknights are savage up close and personal (I've had one drop Meph to 2 wounds in one round and then get pulled down by Meph, 2 Furiosos and a unit of Assault Marines) but hitting on 6's against fast moving vehicles means that you'll need something more reliable to bring things down.

 

You've also got to account for Grey Knights and Terminators not having Power Fist equivalents for mashing stuff up close - they've got to rely on psychic powers (Hammerhand & especially Might of Titan) to give them a fighting chance against vehicles and Walkers, a support which can be locked down with Hoods and Rune Weapons.

 

For those willing to play games with the PDF I'd strongly recommed packing in Melta. I'm looking at Guard-Meltavet-style squads for now. But this is just going with the PDF that's floating about, which might look very little like the finished article and render any advice now meaningless.

[Justcar]

People need to stop complaining about a) psychic shutdowns and b ) lack of melta

 

This army doesn't have everything. In my opinion, that makes it more fun and tactically challenging.

 

If YOU can't figure out how to get around lack of AT and psychic hoods, then that is your problem. ( I have already come up with a couple of tactics regarding this)

 

note: Keep in mind that we don't know what the orbital strike relay does yet. It costs 50 pts, so it could easily be more powerful than the space marine equivalent. In addition, almost ALL of our HQs get one. This means that we could have multiple orbital S10 AP1 shots falling on the enemy before they know it.

 

In all honesty, these limitations are what makes this army worthwhile! If we just had an army that pwned everything without making us try, then what is the point? :D

[Stormbrow II]

People need to stop complaining about a) psychic shutdowns and b ) lack of melta

 

This army doesn't have everything. In my opinion, that makes it more fun and tactically challenging.

 

If YOU can't figure out how to get around lack of AT and psychic hoods, then that is your problem. ( I have already come up with a couple of tactics regarding this)

I'd love to hear some suggestions for cracking high AV targets (Land Raiders et al) sans Melta. Really, I would. I don't see people complaining about the elite nature of the army btw. Its goign to be small but hit hard. It'll be interesting to see how differently it plays to other armies.

[Valerian]

So, I took the PDF and worked out a draft army list with what I've got on hand, just for fun. I didn't include any of the options that we don't know about yet (i.e. no Empyrean Brain Mines, etc.). Total was up to 2180, and I didn't even include the 2 Stormravens that I intend to buy. I also didn't upgrade any of my Strike Squads to have personal teleporters, and I didn't include my Inquisitor and 2 squads of IST/henchmen (that I probably won't bother playing with anymore). It seems that I've got way too many models for what I actually need to play standard sized games now. 31 basic Grey Knights with Halberds is costing me an extra 155 points, but they'll be well worth the Initiative 5 for most games (against MEQs).

 

Although I've got to think through what to leave out, I'm still pretty happy with "the basics". So long as the Storm Bolters as Pistols rumor pans out, then your basic Grey Knight will easily take over "most effective basic troop" designation from Grey Hunters. I'm also extremely happy with your basic Grand Master, Brother-Captain, and Librarian, so finding an effective HQ selection isn't a problem. It's just the Special Characters that I have a problem with, but I can easily live without them.

 

At this point, the only thing that bothers me about this army list is that every unit will be relying pretty heavily on using their various Psychic Powers, but they don't appear to have any protection from Perils of the Warp. I would really hate to lose half of my Justicars to Perils every time I play a game. These guys will really need an Eldar Ghosthelm style protective mechanism if every unit is going to try and pull off a power every turn.

 

Valerian

[boreas]

Well, assaulting with Jump-DK is one. Assaulting with S6 models (everyone has grenades, even termies!) is another. St10 Ap1 (librarian, possibly orbital strikes) is another. Rending Psycannon. Dreadnoughts w/ multimeltas. LRs w/ multimeltas. SR w/multimeltas and St8 Ap1 missiles. All pure GKs, so no henchmen for meltaguns.

 

It wond crack av 14, at least not regularly. But really, how many times have you needed to? Most of the times, you don't need to kill the monolith (phase out, instead). And 500+ pts of landraider will leave a lot of space for you to go and grab objectives...

 

Phil

[Gentlemanloser]

OK, assuming Daemonhammers double your S like Thunderhammers;

 

1: Might of Titan (Libby and Squad)

2: Vortex of Doom

3: Draigo (S10 versus Daemons/Psychers)

4: Mordrak (S10 with his MC Daemonhammer)

5: Ghost Knights (Free Daemonhammers)

6: Crowe (Max possible 13, so unable to hurt LR)

7: GM/BC (Daemonhammer)

8: Libby (Daemonhammer)

9: Graviton Beamer

10: Conversion Beamer (If it works the same as in C:SM)

11: Purifiers (Daemonhammer)

12: Venerable/Normal Dreadnought

13: Paladin (Free Daemonhammers)

14: Vindicare Assassin (4d6 Rending. Will penetrate anything in the game with ease)

15: Jokaero backed HB/PC Servitors (Rending HB can get AV15, and Rending PC can hit 16)

16: Terminators (Free Daemonhammers)

17: Strike Squad (Daemonhammers)

18: Purgation Squad (Daemonhammers)

19: Nemesis DreadKnight. :thanks:

20: Land Raiders (Assault Cannons and Lascannons)

 

 

Why S10? Hammerhand adds +1S before other modifiers, like the Daemonhammer. If the DH was just +1S, there would be no need for the HH ower to include it in it's description. Even if it is, tkaing out all the DH squads, we're still left with (I've left of things like Psi-strike Missiles, etc) enough ways to pop armour. Even if it's just the Vindicare one-shotting a vehicle every turn.

 

So while it might be useful, or still the most cost effective, Melta spam is not required. :yes:

 

(I've probably missed loads anyway!)

 

Edit:

 

These guys will really need an Eldar Ghosthelm style protective mechanism if every unit is going to try and pull off a power every turn.

 

I'm really hoping the the vehicles Warp Stabiliastion Field has a bubble around it. So haivng a Strike Squad next to a rhino would let them not take a peils test. Otherwise, I totally agree. It's not too bad for our Temries, who at least get a 5+ save (and the DK gets a 4+...).

 

You only get 2 shots if a Psycannon moves drastically reducing the potential number of Rending hits you can get.

 

Don't move then? I don't get the point there. Even with 2 shots on the move, the Psycannon will be better than an A Cannon for popping vehicles. And we can get an absolute boatload of them. Far more than any Marine army can pick up A Cannons...

 

Armour won't be a problem for the new GK codex.

[Angelust]

If Psycannons really are S7 Rending with H3/A2, the codex should have plenty of Suppression and AT packed into one weapon.

 

5 Purifiers + 2 Psycannons = 140 pts. So for that price, you get some decent AT and anti-horde.

 

Otherwise, we're generally looking at 1 Psycannon per 5 terminators or 2 per 10 GKSS. That's not too bad, considering how good the units are against infantry.

 

In the concept lists I've been thinking up, I usually have 10-14 Psycannons in pretty durable squads. 20 Suppression shots on the move is quite good when they can threaten to shake/stun main tanks on the first turn, while 30 as back-field suppression is not that terrible as well. It's not like Guard shooting, but it's not nearly as bad as the previous GK edition where we basically depended on IST, Land Raiders, Dreads, and getting into combat.

[Gentlemanloser]

Paladins can get 2 Psycannons for every 5 minis, and we've not seen the stats for the DK version yet.

 

Every GK Squad (Purifier, Paladin, Terminator, Strike, Purgation) and the generic GM/BC can purchase a Psycannon or 2/4.

[AlexHolker]

As far as the fluff goes, I am honestly kinda mixed about it. It's like being told Santa isn't real. We all had this idea that Grey Knights were some kind of purity (whatever that means in the 40k universe) and above reproach. Now we get to reading that they are not all that, that there are those who are deemed "resistant to chaos but not immune" and we go ":lol:!".

I don't know how you got that out of the fluff that's been written. I've got the opposite problem with the new fluff: these so-called puritans are associating with warp entities and xenos, wielding daemon weapons and generally acting with Wardian hubris. The only excuse for such writing is if you're writing about a chapter that is going to fall, hard, and the Grey Knights aren't that chapter.

 

What do you all think about adversaries? I highly doubt they will be in this book, but I would really like to see them. It would make battles so much fluffier!

Fluffier from your side, maybe. But the least fluffy matchups are going to refuse to use your adversary rules anyway, just to protect their fluff.

[boreas]

I'm not bothered too much by the fluff. It's like a red light to a Montreal driver: just a suggestion :lol: I plan to re-paint all my GKs, sell a lot of them and buy a lot of the newer. I'll go for a darker, dirtier look deep red and codex grey, not silver. But if you really liked to older fluff, you can alway use a generic GKGM with a very pure back story. Heck, even model Crowe with the daemon weapon strapped to the back and a regular CC weapon as has been suggested.

 

What I'm excited about, though, is diversity and that list has it. I can bring a list without vehicles and beffudle most opponents that have lots of anti-tank. I can bring an elite fast army with stormravens and paladins/termies. I can bring a non-GK list. I can bring a combination mech-foot with GKs in rhinos/razorbacks/LRs. Also, lots and lots of modeling and painting...

 

Finally, I like that my playstyle can vary a lot more. I can use the psychic powers if needed or not. I can possibly load up on brain mines and/or whatever grenades. I can make a shooty army with more psycannons. I can make an assaulty army with daemonhammers and halberds.

 

That was the most severe problems of Codex: DH, and it's now solved as far as I'm concerned! Now, only time will tell what the final print looks like, but I'm pretty sure I'll be happy with it :P

 

Phil

[jimbo1701]

Having read through it, I like a lot of what I've seen and although I appreciate it's a playtest codex, there are a few things bothering me:

 

1. Relative points cost of squads - strike squads seem to have much more expensive upgrades than say purifiers, yet the purifers can be made troops for the purchase of a relatively inexpensive character (see below). Sure, they can't take the teleport upgrade, but for the extra Ld/attack and the ability to take more heavy weapons and cheaper wargear, I can't see any reason really not to take Crowe and purifiers every game as a better alternative to the actual troops choice. (in summary, how can the basic troops choice be so relatively undercosted compared to an elite alternative - sternguard aren't when compared to tactical marines in a Kantor army) Also, when looking at Paladins Vs terminators - slightly cheaper heavy weapon upgrades, an extra and very useful psychic power, 1 extra WS/W all for the price of a Power weapon per model. Now I'm not being too hard on this one as to make them troops you'll need a very expensive SC, but I think some of the upgrade costs should have been adjusted upwards slightly. The cheaper costs of upgrades in purgation squads also irks me somewhat, as they are cheaper than that of strike squads. I appreciate the fact that the DH dex was written in an era where all units could score, but every 5th ed marien dex has the costs of devastator heavy weaponry higher than that of the tactical equivalents. Why not this one?

 

2. Similar point to the above but this time for characters. Why not take a GM for only a PF worth of points more than a brother captain. This is quite the opposite of the codex SM situation where a chapter master is relatively underused as he only unlocks a different unit and confers an often ineffective barrage, compared to the cheaper captain who can also modify the FOC as well as unlocking a more useful unit, namely a command squad. A GM confers some immensely useful abilities (dreadknight as scoring unit!) on the entire army and has an extra BS. For only a PF more, for me there's really no option. Or is there? The answer is yes, because for only another PF worth of points, you can have grand master Mordrack, who not only has everything a Grand master has, but also can have a retinue of CHEAPER terminators (yes retinue, he can't be singled out) who also grow in size as a unit as he loses wounds! On a similar subject, there's also Castellan Crowe, who may be 2 PFs more than a regular champion, but has an extra WS/I/W, a special form of annointed blade and, most importantly, makes purifiers troops. That more than pays for the 2 PFs on its own, seeing as they're that much better than strike squads and have cheaper uprgrades.

 

These are just my observations on the army from this middling stage of info. Much as I want to love it, something just smells wrong about it - units SEEM too powerful, with too many ways to bolster their effectiveness to the extent that any drawbacks are countered. At this moment, I can't really see any reason not to take Mordrack and his ghosts, Crowe, and 6 10-man squads of purifiers in rhinos + stormraven every 2000pt game for an instant nasty list. I don't play to spam things, just can't think of a good reason not to take them as the best tools for the job. And don't even get me started on balance issues Vs Daemons!