Resv Posted March 11, 2011 Share Posted March 11, 2011 Yeah, prepare to see even more Rune Priests and probably more njal. This is even more reason to take Dreadnoughts with the Reinforced Aegis. Just about every SW Psychic power is offensive and nothing is funnier than a Librarian attempting to cast their powers at Ld6. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Freman Bloodglaive Posted March 12, 2011 Share Posted March 12, 2011 More plasma spam, more Rhino spam, more Rune Priest spam. No more "fun" units like thunderwolves. Back to 3rd edition it is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Resv Posted March 12, 2011 Share Posted March 12, 2011 More plasma spam, more Rhino spam, more Rune Priest spam. No more "fun" units like thunderwolves. Back to 3rd edition it is. That is a dire prediction mate, I don't think it is NEARLY that bad. They are still marines and they die just as easily. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
revnow Posted March 12, 2011 Share Posted March 12, 2011 Rune priest spam would be a mistake for wolves looking at this codex. There is a lot of stupid hyper specific wargear, but if there is one thing this Codex does well, it is mess up psykers' days. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grimz Posted March 12, 2011 Share Posted March 12, 2011 Great bat-rep mate! I'd love to hear how the NDK goes. Also Venerable dread's are elite yea? Can they take Autocannons? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Ragnarok Posted March 12, 2011 Share Posted March 12, 2011 Yeah, prepare to see even more Rune Priests and probably more njal. This is even more reason to take Dreadnoughts with the Reinforced Aegis. Just about every SW Psychic power is offensive and nothing is funnier than a Librarian attempting to cast their powers at Ld6. Ahhhh but i was suggesting more Rune priests to shut down the GK powers. But I agree, Dreads seem like they could be a "no brainer" choice. No more "fun" units like thunderwolves. Or maybe small units used as "bait". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Freman Bloodglaive Posted March 12, 2011 Share Posted March 12, 2011 Rune priest spam would be a mistake for wolves looking at this codex. There is a lot of stupid hyper specific wargear, but if there is one thing this Codex does well, it is mess up psykers' days. While you can't rely on their psychic powers, the rune priest's 4+ dispel will help keep the GK under control. I'd take two for coverage. Vindicare assassins can target individual models and bust invulnerable saves. Solution? Stay in the Rhinos. Grey Knights mass force weapons. Expensive multi wound models like thunderwolves die easily. Solution? Don't take them. Grey Knights own assault but die as easily as normal marines to shooting. What kills marines? Plasma, and lots of it. Each Grey Hunter pack can carry three plasma weapons and the risk of dying to overheat is much smaller than dying to Nemesis force weapon. Long Fangs will start carrying a couple of lascannon in addition to their rockets for dealing with Paladin and Dreadknights. Perhaps if there's free points we'll take some Land Speeders. Other than thunderwolves they're about the only things worth taking in fast attack. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Resv Posted March 12, 2011 Share Posted March 12, 2011 Great bat-rep mate! I'd love to hear how the NDK goes. Also Venerable dread's are elite yea? Can they take Autocannons? Thanks! Venerable Dreads are an elite choice and they can take Autocannons. With Psybolt Ammo and cannons they cost less than a tooled up Dread Knight with two weapons. Just judging from what Fortitude was like on a regular Dreadnought a Venerable Dread would be extra hard to kill. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jakehunter52 Posted March 12, 2011 Share Posted March 12, 2011 While you can't rely on their psychic powers, the rune priest's 4+ dispel will help keep the GK under control. I'd take two for coverage. Vindicare assassins can target individual models and bust invulnerable saves. Solution? Stay in the Rhinos. Solution? Blow up the Rhinos. You cannot escape my sights. Grey Knights mass force weapons. Expensive multi wound models like thunderwolves die easily. Solution? Don't take them. And is that a practical solution for the other 13 armies that are floating around? I think that taking them is still fine but knowing how to redirect them when facing GKs. For example, a Lord is still I 5 and with Saga of the Bear, can do serious damage to a vanilla GKSS and still survive. Grey Knights own assault but die as easily as normal marines to shooting. What kills marines? Plasma, and lots of it. Each Grey Hunter pack can carry three plasma weapons and the risk of dying to overheat is much smaller than dying to Nemesis force weapon. Bigger picture says that this is not practical. Taking plasma means not taking something else, most likely melta or possibly flamers. Which means you lose either heavy anti-tank or horde killing ability along with point cost increases. This will then require a major shift in strategy for the whole army. I expect people to start using melta more often as it can do the same thing and with our numbers, should suffice. Long Fangs will start carrying a couple of lascannon in addition to their rockets for dealing with Paladin and Dreadknights. I could see this. Not a major point increase, minimal loss of anti-horde. But is it enough to make a difference? Perhaps if there's free points we'll take some Land Speeders. Other than thunderwolves they're about the only things worth taking in fast attack. I think that there is going to be serious shift for psychic protection for those armies that can and an equal response on our side by taking a vindicare. I full expect to see him in any kind of competitive list because he is too good to counter the meta game. He eliminates hoods, falcon punches through vehicles, will draw fire like none other and all of this will strengthen any kind of weak bonds that we have. He's a monster through and through. Any other kind of shift will have to be seen. Personally, I think Psycannons are going to make a serious impact because no other army has as powerful and accurate firepower like GKs do. They will be the masters of 24", enough for you to see but not taste. In fact, I find it most amusing that water style play will still be very viable, thanks to rhinos, Libbys w/ Shrouding, Psybolt and Halberd upgrades. Edit: Anyone notice that the FULL RANGE of Inquisitors are up? Including that Gamesday one w/ the Plasma Pistol and Powerfist? Doing my happy jigg! :woot: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedMoon Posted March 12, 2011 Share Posted March 12, 2011 well i for one like the codex a lot. i flipped threw it the other day for a good while and i have quite the bit of ideas in my head already...the wallet will be spread thin thats for sure lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bertboxer Posted March 12, 2011 Share Posted March 12, 2011 quick question concerning the vindicares is there still a limit on how many temple assassins one can take? i feel that 3 uber anti-hq/anti-tank snipers running around would be terrifying Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grimz Posted March 12, 2011 Share Posted March 12, 2011 limit of 1 per temple Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrotherWasted Posted March 12, 2011 Share Posted March 12, 2011 Rune priest spam would be a mistake for wolves looking at this codex. There is a lot of stupid hyper specific wargear, but if there is one thing this Codex does well, it is mess up psykers' days. While you can't rely on their psychic powers, the rune priest's 4+ dispel will help keep the GK under control. I'd take two for coverage. Vindicare assassins can target individual models and bust invulnerable saves. Solution? Stay in the Rhinos. Grey Knights mass force weapons. Expensive multi wound models like thunderwolves die easily. Solution? Don't take them. Grey Knights own assault but die as easily as normal marines to shooting. What kills marines? Plasma, and lots of it. Each Grey Hunter pack can carry three plasma weapons and the risk of dying to overheat is much smaller than dying to Nemesis force weapon. Long Fangs will start carrying a couple of lascannon in addition to their rockets for dealing with Paladin and Dreadknights. Perhaps if there's free points we'll take some Land Speeders. Other than thunderwolves they're about the only things worth taking in fast attack. - Vindicare Assassins have a shot that causes 2 wounds to a normal model, and grants 4D6 armor penetration. Your Rhino will provide no useful coverage. - Agreed, don't take Thunderwolves against Grey Knights. If you can help it that is, and you know that you're going to be fighting them. - Also agreed, plasma owns marines. But hey, now you've sacrificed S8 weaponry in your list, whilst I still have lots of it, which is still effective from 24". - As if Long Fangs weren't already packing Lascannons so to combat normal Terminators or 2W wound warriors or monstrous creatures. - Your speeders sound like a nice substitute. But on the other hand, they're still paper thin and can still be taken down if they get near 24" of a Grey Knight thanks to their S5 storm bolters. I guess you don't have much of another choice, though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Resv Posted March 12, 2011 Share Posted March 12, 2011 Quick update from my phone. Just finished with a game against Blood Angels. Same basic list as before with a few changes, two Dread Knights with a Heavy Incinerator, Teleporter and a Daemon Hammer. No Dreadnoughts. Had to move some other units around to get points in for these guys and dropped a few terminators and cut down the number of Purifiers as well. Rolled Pitched Battle with Control Points as the mission. The BA list was a hybrid Jumper/Mech list with Mephiston and a regular Librarian in it. Highlights: -Vindicare was ignored for most of the game which my opponent admits was a mistake. The assassin killed off the Sang. Priests that landed via deep strike in glorious shot after shot. -I kept most of my army grouped up so my opponent had to come to me. Seemed like a good plan at first but started to fall apart as I was getting shot up. -Dread Knights were not great at shooting, I'm not really impressed with any of their ranged weapon options besides the Heavy Incinerator. Anyway, the NDK did a great job against vehicles in CC and an alright job against infantry. One of the two got bogged down by an assault squad, at only WS5 he wasn't sweeping aside the competition like I had hopped. He ended up dying a valiant death after killing off the Assault Squad at the hands of Mephiston. -My opponent seemed like he wanted to prove that Mephiston was king of the world went to beat the hell out of my Terminators and Grand Master. Mephiston really did a number on them but my opponent wasn't familiar with Rad Grenades causing -1 toughness. Mephiston killed a number of terminators however I managed to get 1 wound (and only 1 due to die rolls) in on him from my GM. Brotherhood banner kicked in and that is all she wrote. -Furious Charge against Purifiers with Halberds is not as very effective. One of the remaining VV squads when after my Purifiers and even with a Priest they got thrashed. I managed to get Cleansing Flame off and I am surprised at how well it worked on power armor troops. The remaining Vets did beat the hell out of my Purifiers but still ended up losing the combat. -Used the shunt move to get my remaining scoring NDK right on top of my opponents objective on the last turn. Didn't claim it but I did manage to contest it and I won 1 Objective to Nil. Notes: -NDKs are intimidating (even using Valk flying stands with a cut out image of the NDK taped to it) but in the end they are just big Terminators with the words "shoot here" written all over them. Amazing when it comes to popping vehicles but not as impressive when it come to taking out CC infantry. Their weapon options aren't as strong as I would have hopped and all seem to be geared for Hordes. It would have been amazing just to have a Multi-Melta. -Warp Quake is amazing and kept my opponent from dropping right in on me. -Psycannons are amazing at harassing transports, not necessarily killing transports but certainly keeping them penned down. -The Grand Strategy is brilliant and takes an elite army and make it super flexible. I can't wait to try out flanking NDKs using their 30 inch shunt to get onto the board. -Like I thought, the Psychic Hoods did stop quite a few of my powers from going off but in the end I didn't really need to use my psychic powers that much. In fact I forgot to even try rolling for them towards the end of the game. -BA Assault Squads beat the snot out of my GKSS squads with their many attacks. Power weapons cause just as much damage to GKs as they do to other marines and you will really feel each loss when it happens. -Shunting. What the hell was Ward thinking? There is nothing that compares to it currently in the game and Grand Strategy makes it amazingly useful. While writing all of this on my iPhone the second game of the night is just about over, GK vs IG in a KP match. DoW deployment using the same list I used last game. Looks like the IG are going to win. I have to say this real quick though, one unit of Purifiers killed off a Blob Platoon of 35. Commissar went down to Cleansing Flame and the blob broke at the end of the first assault phase and were chased down due to I6. The Purifiers were then promptly shot out of existence by the rest of the guard army. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HERO Posted March 12, 2011 Share Posted March 12, 2011 Are Halberds +2 to Initiative in assault only, or +2I to their statline? I really hope its assault only or else GK will be pretty safe from JotWW and other I-based characteristic tests. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jakehunter52 Posted March 12, 2011 Share Posted March 12, 2011 Thanks for the reports Resv, the are very insightful. You have made quite a compelling case for the vindicare and shown how good he really is by filling weaknesses in our own army and neutralizing the strengths in our opponents. You have equally made good on the usefulness of Rifleman dreads, Purifiers and Dreadknights and the effect of psychic hoods on our army. Frankly, I think that I will be having to consider how I construct my army. I was originally was going to take a SR and put Purifiers in there and have a group of 4 Paladins on the ground to have my GM sit in. Would of allowed me to use communion so it would be much more viable to DS my DKs and SR. But after hearing how fragile your termies were and realizing Palies wouldn't fare much better (LCs are equal opportunity destroyers), I think I will either have to find a new mode of transport for the Purifiers or just not take the Termies. But that leaves me unsure of where to place my GM.... ;) I look forward to hearing how your IG battle went. Oh and as a favor, possibly I missed this in the shuffle, but do teleport packs allow the DK to move 12" or is it just the shunt? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrotherWasted Posted March 12, 2011 Share Posted March 12, 2011 Personal Teleporters make the unit Jump Infantry, if I recall correctly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hmk17 Posted March 12, 2011 Share Posted March 12, 2011 Are Halberds +2 to Initiative in assault only, or +2I to their statline? I really hope its assault only or else GK will be pretty safe from JotWW and other I-based characteristic tests. +2 to I if memory serves. I'll double check today. @ jakehunter DK gets the actual teleporter. Teleporter makes him Jump Infantry AND gives him the shunt. It's a crap ton of points, but it is soo good. Edit: For the record. Halberds give +2 to Initiative while striking in CC. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Valerian Posted March 12, 2011 Share Posted March 12, 2011 Are Halberds +2 to Initiative in assault only, or +2I to their statline? I really hope its assault only or else GK will be pretty safe from JotWW and other I-based characteristic tests. I noticed that, too. I don't believe Halberds would affect rolls for Sweeping Advance, or other Initiative checks (like JOTWW). V The good news for me is that I think I only need to do a few things before my updated army for this edition is done: 1. Buy and paint the Terminator Librarian (I was surprised at how well the stock Librarian fit right in the the studio army). 2. Buy 2 sets of Left and Right Auto Cannon arms for my two Forgeworld Dreadnoughts. They were already built with magnetized arms, so it should be easy to add these as options to the TL Lascannon and Assault Cannon arms they've already got. The Rifleman Dread with Psybolt ammo just seems like a no brainer, especially with Reinforced Aegis. 3. Buy and build enough extra models to add a single Nemesis Daemonhammer to each unit (2x Terminator Squads, and 4x GKSS units). I've always preferred to have at least one high strength SCCW in each unit in my other armies, and love the fact that I can now do this with my Knights. 4. Maybe add a Brotherhood Banner model to each of the two GKT squads (only those and Paladins can get the Banner, right?). It really shouldn't take much to finish up! V Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Utsujin Posted March 12, 2011 Share Posted March 12, 2011 I think the readjusted stats of s6, t6 and 5 up invul is more fair for the points, compared to 7's and 4 up. Still seems really good though. I would much rather take a rifleman dreadnought though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hmk17 Posted March 12, 2011 Share Posted March 12, 2011 On the opposite end, the Gray Knight Psychic Defense isn't great either unless they have a Dreadnought around, which is another reason to include them. Just a thought, does it look like Aegis and Reinforced Aegis stack? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Utsujin Posted March 12, 2011 Share Posted March 12, 2011 So where is the option to take rad grenades? i didn't see it in the pdf? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Valerian Posted March 12, 2011 Share Posted March 12, 2011 On the opposite end, the Gray Knight Psychic Defense isn't great either unless they have a Dreadnought around, which is another reason to include them. Just a thought, does it look like Aegis and Reinforced Aegis stack? I'm pretty sure that they do not. It's already enough to keep you safe though (especially when you add in a Hood on a Librarian). So where is the option to take rad grenades? i didn't see it in the pdf? It's on some of the HQ models IIRC. So, not available to most units, but still there for your ICs. V Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Utsujin Posted March 12, 2011 Share Posted March 12, 2011 Ah, ok thank you. I did not see that in the pdf. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soots Posted March 12, 2011 Share Posted March 12, 2011 How does the pay strike missiles work against parleys? Does it wound like normal and just ignore armor save? Bit confused about that weapon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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