chaplain belisarius Posted May 11, 2011 Share Posted May 11, 2011 also been thinking...im imagining malal to be more generous with gifts and power (at least in the short term!) kind of like the dark side of the force-"quicker, more seductive" i see malal as being a shorter career path than other gods but giving out rewards far quicker...any thoughts on this? (plus, i want my force to be led by a DP-as i like the plastic model loads!) :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
subtlebrush Posted May 11, 2011 Share Posted May 11, 2011 @heathens: YES! So epic. Your writing inspires me to work harder on mine all the time. I love that your war-band will be the Hunters for the Chapter, kind of like Kathals chosen "meal-tickets" etc. @chaplain belisarius: As far as Malal, I see him in almost the same light. He seeks praise and sacrifice more so then the other gods because he is weakened even still after so long of being cast out of his "realm". Although it could be a faint, he could've doubled his power in such a long span of time but hides it to keep the other gods from finding him. I agree, he probably is quick with gifting one who seeks his eye , but not entirely like when I described the Bloodlust; even after hunting down this beast, almost dying yourself in the process, sacrificing the Twilight Bear's heart to Malal, he subsides the Bloodlust but whenever you smell blood and a mix of the sounds of battle and the dying, it comes back, however you still have (some) control its just your more "beefed up" to deal with it. And as far as the rule, I think naming it something along the lines of "Corpse-hunger" would be a sweet name. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chaplain belisarius Posted May 11, 2011 Share Posted May 11, 2011 cool..so its not just me then! off to read malal lives for ideas...:P Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hushrong Posted May 11, 2011 Author Share Posted May 11, 2011 @1000heathens: I like your story and giving your warband a purpose. I am still trying to figure out what mine is doing besides playing at angry pirates. --- In regards to the eating of flesh and a lil on how Malal is a leech, I would like to pass on a bit from Mabrothrax: -Mabrothrax- -Hush-I also wanted to know what ideas you had about the parasetic relationship between Malal and his worshippers. ...like they are being drained of life. The other thing in conjunction to this was if they could "replenish" themselves by consuming the living(like in labyrinth). This would also be like the Dark Eldar who suffer from "the thirst" where they consume the soul/essence of another living being because slaanesh leeches off of them. If you have a look at the original Kaleb Daark comic, it suggests that the level of interaction with Malal is very damaging and physically draining, also cannibalism does lead to degenerative diseases and severe disabilities, so the Sons truly are Doomed Ones. They eat to survive, but it's killing them so they turn to Malal, but he's killing them as well... Looks like you're heading in the right direction, but try to avoid such a blatant drug addiction metaphor in your fluff, go for the tragedy of the mindless slave to darkness. What he states is really good info and something I want to try and stick to. I like the idea of a "tragedy" within the Sons than just saying "I feel hunger, eat eat eat". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
subtlebrush Posted May 11, 2011 Share Posted May 11, 2011 "They eat to survive, but it's killing them so they turn to Malal, but he's killing them as well..." I think that is the perfect quick explanation as to the relationship the Sons have with Malal and definitely give a tragic tone to their existence. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GooseDaMoose Posted May 11, 2011 Share Posted May 11, 2011 hushrong I'm hesitant to describe the Sons of Malice as "mindless slaves." I was sadly only able to read the first few pages of the Kaleb Daark comic but if you find a good source let me know! and btw Mr. Malevolent I don't remember if you answered but: if initiates have to defeat a Twilight Bear-thing to become a full brother how is the defeating a Twilight Bear to become a berserker anything special? 1000heathens dang the twins man! Are you gonna paint one white and one black? ;P Anyway it looks pretty cool fluffwise. I should probably start posting some of my fluff here to see what you guys think. I wrote this a while ago and I was reminded of it from reading 1000heathen's story: KNOWN ENGAGEMENTS Thigrun Campaign One of the 7th Company’s earliest engagements was the Thigrun Campaign against a taskforce of the Ultramarines 5th Company as well as a large Imperial Guard contingent led by a Chaplain Junius of the Ultramarines. System-wide, the Thigrun Campaign is to date the 7th Company’s most ambitious engagement against the Imperium. After 8 years of preparation, during which agents had sown discontent and conflict in the four hospitable worlds of the Thigrun System, the 7th Company, with elements of 5th company under Brother-Commanders Batko and Aata led a vast invasion of the entire system to free them from the Imperium. The goal was to secure a base of operations and recruitment pool for any future Sons of Malice endeavours in the area. However what should have been a quick and relatively bloodless campaign – most of the PDF having been taken by suprise and defeated – soon turned sour as a taskforce composed of the Imperial Guard Vostroyan Heavy Armoured 73rd and an Ultramarines 5th Company force led by Chaplain Junius of the Ultramarines counter-attacked viciously. It was during this grueling 2-month campaign that Brother-Commander Batko came into contact with Lord Asti of the Alpha Legion. In the end the Imperial forces succeeded in reclaiming the system, however the damage that needed doing had been done, and the Sons of Malice will in some years have a fresh pool of recruits from the underground Hive gangs that still roam the four worlds of the Thigrun System; followers of the “Cult of Malice.” or Cult of the Skull maybe :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
subtlebrush Posted May 11, 2011 Share Posted May 11, 2011 @goose: I believe I might have answered you but I think I didn't get my meaning across and or I totally messed up-ed my concept without noticing. The idea is any initiates/neophytes who show signs of the Bloodlust will be herded into "Berzerker" squad/Blood Claw packs. Then when and if they pass the test, killing the TB they are reinstated as "mark of the wulfen" style Initiates (wolf guard with the Mark Of Wulfen for normal initiates and the neophyte just getting a nice pelt) Basically when they "cure" the Bloodlust it doesn't really go away. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GooseDaMoose Posted May 11, 2011 Share Posted May 11, 2011 Ahhhhh right right right gotcha. Only initiates who show signs of the Bloodlust. I thought it was like all of them :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hushrong Posted May 11, 2011 Author Share Posted May 11, 2011 @Goose: I wouldn't say they are mindless slaves myself. Just copying down what was stated. I do think what had been stated really adds depth to the chapter instead of them just being cannibals. It shows nothing will be easy as doom and oblivion hang over their heads. I have read your fluff posted earlier and it made me think that the Cult of the Skull could be spread throughout the chapter. Perhaps it is a group of librarians, sorcerers, and "champions" that seek to spread anarchy and destruction by making established systems collapse on themselves. I got the CotS idea from the Celts, again, as there may have been such a thing among their society. Basically, after a warrior triumphs over his foes he takes the head as a trophy. So my sorcerer and two champions spread discontent through the poor lower classes and any other corruptible souls. The first act the mortals must do is collect the head of another human they had killed. From their they are revealed to the truth (whether it is the truth or not, it's basically brain washing) and trained. Then they are sent out to cause riots and wreak havoc, the ultimate goal of th CotS may be secret, but the work of their underlings is devastating. My current scenario has my Cult operating in the Neros Hive where they are battling against cultists of the word bearers and the adeptus arbites. They do encourage veneration to Malal so he has worshippers to leech from but do not induct the mortals completely. They are tools that will soon start massive riots in the hive city and once they are done they will be abandoned. I don't see the Sons trying to build up followers and I do not think they want thousands of mortals talking about Malal, I'm sure he wants to stay 'in the shadows'. There may be one small group of mortals kept because of military knowledge used for training, perhaps they are the chapter serfs brought along with the CotS. I think this would work well for those small cells operating in the midst of the imperium. I don't mind sharing my idea, so long as no radical changes are brought to it. I also think we should avoid naming things with 'malice' in it. This way we will not end up like the BA with blood-everything and the SW with wolf-everything. :P Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hyaenidae Posted May 12, 2011 Share Posted May 12, 2011 @Goose: By "dang the twins man!", is that a good dang, or a bad dang? lol. I'll admit, your old twin idea kinda inspired them, plus the 'orius and arius' greek myth of twin half-bear, half man cannabals. It just all fit together, hope you don't mind. Also, because of the Dread named Orius, I've renamed my warband 'The Hollowed' to fit in with my rune priest as leader. As for colors...hmm, just not sure yet, let me get back to you on that one. I'm digging the cult idea in the fluff guys, that could fit in well with our history and eventual plans, whatever they may be, lol. Also, I'd like to put forward the idea that our Librarians be called 'Skin-Walkers', after the North American Navajo tribes witches. Wikipedia has some good info on them if you guys are curious. If y'all don't agree, it's totally cool. I'll just say that my Librarian returned to his tribal ways after the fall from grace, and took up the ancient ways of the Scelus Plains-Tribes. Kinda like a sect within the Librarium. It amuses me that we are pulling our inspiration from so many different sources, lol. Hushrong is borrowing from the Celts, Goose from historical anarchists, myself from the Navajo tribes and a little greek history, Mr. Malevolent pulling mongolian influences. The pain in the butt is gonna be tying all this together, lol. Glad y'all enjoyed the fluff...now maybe I'll get a dang WIP up... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hushrong Posted May 12, 2011 Author Share Posted May 12, 2011 I was thinking of a twins idea for my CotS Astartes. Something like alpharius and omegon, two bodies and one soul. They would have low psyker abilities and would communicate via telepathic means in battle. It would work I think with GK rules but i have to read the dex an see if I could run two paladins with a certain inquisitor. For their armor, it would be halved like the traditional Malal colors. So one would have white on thier right side and black on the other, then the brother would have it vice versa. I don't think I will make my warriors this way though, but thought to throw out the idea. Skin-Walker does sound cool, I will have to look it up. Perhaps it could be the title of CotS librarians? If we stick with the Labyrinth short story...they had librarians and were called so. Doesn't mean we have to follow that story, just something to think about. Better yet, it could be a rank within librarians like how codex-following loyalists have. And I like all the influences going into our Sons. One way to tie it together would be that it represents the predominant tribes/societies/ cultures of Scelus that became part of the chapter. Perhaps each company recruited from thier ancestral lands. Something like the Iron Hand clans. I could be wrong about that, I only know so much about them. This would be one big aspect of background fluff that would need plenty of deliberation. One thing is for sure, at least we aren't 'renaissance fair vampires who use product for their blonde hair before battle' marines. I jest...but I'm also serious :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Panda_ Posted May 12, 2011 Share Posted May 12, 2011 Malal sacred number is 11. This is related to the 2 heads of this god. In fact, his head was split by some axe, each part became one entirely head. So will you use squads of 11 marines ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hyaenidae Posted May 12, 2011 Share Posted May 12, 2011 Myself, no. If 11 guys could fit in a rhino, I would, but I'm not gonna kill myself on the table because of fluff, and I'm a mech oriented player. I'm only willing to restrict myself so far, lol. But, I will be running my Ferensian wolf Packs 'Counts-as' in groups of eleven, as a nod to Malal's holy number to make up for it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chaplain belisarius Posted May 12, 2011 Share Posted May 12, 2011 wow! thanks for that hushrong! was very interesting stuff...:) ive got a few house rules for pure sons of malice-tell me what you think? 1-sons of malice- sons of malice hate other chaos worshippers as much as they hate the imperium of man. Sons of malice can ONLY take the mark of chaos undivided (counts as mark of malal). yes, that means no cult troops! 2-nomnomnom!- if a sons of malice unit wins a close combat, take a leadership test. if they pass ,all is good. If they fail then they may not pursue a fleeing enemy or move until their next movement phase-they are feasting upon the dead! If the enemy are foolish enough to have the temerity to disturb the feast-the sons of malice get upset...very upset. The unit counts as charging the enemy unit who charged them plus they get furious charge. After this, the unit has the rage and furious charge special rules for the rest of the battle. any thoughts? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hushrong Posted May 12, 2011 Author Share Posted May 12, 2011 @1000heathens: Looking forward to seeing the Hollowed! Is it still going to be a termie army? So will you use squads of 11 marines ? -My first effort was to make a kill team with 6 chosen. Their total point value was 173, and if you add that up it equals 11 :P It was a sign from Malal himself. -Fluffwise my guys are former 2nd company...because the Roman numerals looks like II. -When I started my Termie army, there was going to be 1 lord (Logan Grimnar) and 10 wolfguard separated into 2 squads. Then I added a WG Battle Leader/lone wolf with wolves, a wolf priest, and a Njal/rune priest. More squads may pop up in the future as well as more lone wolves. I like this army because of low number of minis but they're worth a lot of points, and the fact that I love terminator armor. -With power armor, I may make squads of 11 just for the heck of it. Trying to do that right now with some berzerkers...but ran out of some bitz and ideas for poses. I don't think it is important to make everything up to the number 11 but, as 100heathens stated, its nice to have a nod to it here an there. 1-sons of malice- sons of malice hate other chaos worshippers as much as they hate the imperium of man. Sons of malice can ONLY take the mark of chaos undivided (counts as mark of malal). yes, that means no cult troops! 2-nomnomnom!- if a sons of malice unit wins a close combat, take a leadership test. if they pass ,all is good. If they fail then they may not pursue a fleeing enemy or move until their next movement phase-they are feasting upon the dead! If the enemy are foolish enough to have the temerity to disturb the feast-the sons of malice get upset...very upset. The unit counts as charging the enemy unit who charged them plus they get furious charge. After this, the unit has the rage and furious charge special rules for the rest of the battle. Glad you liked that stuff chaplain belisarius. Hope it helps you with ideas. Perhaps we will see you among the Sons ranks one day? 1.) The rule is interesting but cuts out good units (in my opinion). I think half the fun is trying to figure out how to get these units in a Malal army without looking like followers of the other gods. For example, I have a Khârn count-as (Fovvus) who will be removed from his current base that has an Icon of Chaos Glory, I plan to replace it with a Khârn icon. So on the mini, it looks like he is resting his foot on a defeated icon bearers equipment. So he is Khârn, has all the proper gear, and has the mark all in one all the while he is really a SoM. 2.)It is still an interesting idea that could make a game really unpredictable (which sounds fun). I do not know too much about game mechanics as i play very little so I am not too sure if its over the top or anything. A gaming vet will have to scrutinize this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Midwest Posted May 12, 2011 Share Posted May 12, 2011 @Midwest: Don't take this the wrong way BUT... you should just use that name for a Company and call them Sons of Malice cause your pretty much one step away from being them haha. Is the Labyrinth in the Eye of Terror or drifting endlessly in some sector, I cant remember? But I like them, all your missing is cannibalism and your a Son of Malice :D I think ultimately they will be Sons, but the players won't know. Mostly as I'm not sure how well known Malal should be treated amongst Renegades. I like the idea of Malal being like the "Unknown God" temple in Athens, although at the same time Chaos worshipers would likely know one of their most direct foes.... @Midwest: It is a cool idea, I kind of want to nudge you in the direction of going Sons of Malice all the way and this being on of many warbands! I am also curious about the Black Crusade RPG and I would like to use a SoM when playing. My responses will either be: A.).....(silence) b.) Bite the nearest person to me Agreed. also..anyone able to come up with a cooler name than nomnomnom! ? Flesh to Flesh. Blood Feast Reavers of Flesh Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hushrong Posted May 12, 2011 Author Share Posted May 12, 2011 @Midwest: Don't take this the wrong way BUT... you should just use that name for a Company and call them Sons of Malice cause your pretty much one step away from being them haha. Is the Labyrinth in the Eye of Terror or drifting endlessly in some sector, I cant remember? But I like them, all your missing is cannibalism and your a Son of Malice :P I think ultimately they will be Sons, but the players won't know. Mostly as I'm not sure how well known Malal should be treated amongst Renegades. I like the idea of Malal being like the "Unknown God" temple in Athens, although at the same time Chaos worshipers would likely know one of their most direct foes.... I do think that is fitting. For whatever reason, it is as though Malal cast himself out and has been lurking in the shadows ever since. Waiting and plotting. For the other gods, it is just something they do not want to think about or share openly. Like there is a fear of retribution attached to just thinking of him. Kind of like when you are a kid trying to go to sleep at night. You know of the boogey man and you know he wants to eat you...but if you keep thinking about him the fear of him will keep you up all night. Also, the Sons do not let others know too much about their god either. They are fighting in the 13th Black Crusade among other chaos factions to reclaim their homeworld. It would seem a great bulk of the traitor forces are unaware that they serve a god that wishes their destruction and the end of their pantheon. So I like you idea how the Sons are hush-hush about their devotion to outsiders. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chaplain belisarius Posted May 13, 2011 Share Posted May 13, 2011 thanks hushrong! i am enjoying my research into the SOM so far-if i can pull off the paint scheme, maybe i will get a SOM army! <_< a few questions- 1-I love vindicators-would the SOM field these? 2-Daemon princes? i like the model and want to field one in my army..is this fluffy? 3-any idea how many SOM there are? Good point on the cult troops thing-how about you can only take 0-1 cult troop unit? (so either a squad of berzerkers or plaguemarines-not both!) I know this is a bit harsh but i think it fits malals "anti-chaos" vibe rather well but still allows for you to take a squad of berzerkers if the mood takes you! any thoughts? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hushrong Posted May 13, 2011 Author Share Posted May 13, 2011 Just go for it :D the paint scheme isn't that bad at all. I even painted up my first SoM during a blackout. Went out at night to go party, woke up the next day and I had a painted one on my desk. I had two dilemmas with painting white but came up with good solutions twice. I know GooseDaMoose uses a method from a WD article and it makes for a nice weathered/dirt effect and I just mix light grey with white. As for the vindicator, I'd say go for it. I get a feeling of them being more infantry oriented but Who's to say they wouldn't use armor. I even have a LR for my guys. For daemon princes, I do not know if Malal gives such great gifts. Most fluff states he doesn't even have daemons. It is tough to say. If a SoM achieved it, he must be super awesome. Going back to the idea that you could die from Him because he is a parasite, you would have to work fast if you wanted to ascend. I did have a backstory for my warband where they sought the 'lost children' which were several DP that were among the first of his followers. I was thinking they were originally followers of the other gods but turned to Malal. So that could be a fluffy idea. And their numbers, I'd say in the ballpark of a near-full chapter's strength give or take casualties. Plus, who knows how many warriors they could have recruited or 'adopted' into their ranks. Just some of my thoughts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chaplain belisarius Posted May 13, 2011 Share Posted May 13, 2011 good points there-i am thinking if a particularly strong willed and loyal (plus successful!) servant of malal was to survive for long enough surely he would be gifted with daemonhood? (plus i reckon malal gives rewards quicker-mostly due to his servants dying quicker than other gods servants, due to the parasitic nature of malal) did that make sense? (i hope it did!) :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hyaenidae Posted May 13, 2011 Share Posted May 13, 2011 a few questions- 1-I love vindicators-would the SOM field these? 2-Daemon princes? i like the model and want to field one in my army..is this fluffy? 3-any idea how many SOM there are? Good point on the cult troops thing-how about you can only take 0-1 cult troop unit? (so either a squad of berzerkers or plaguemarines-not both!) I know this is a bit harsh but i think it fits malals "anti-chaos" vibe rather well but still allows for you to take a squad of berzerkers if the mood takes you! #1 I don't see why not. The Sons were Excomm'ed shortly before the 13th Black Crusade kicked off, which was roughly 999.M41. There is no real info on their perferred fighting style (except fighting in silence, of course), so it can be assumed at least that they adherred to the Codex, and would have access to Vindi's. #2 Hmm...maybe. Malal isn't exactly at peak strength to offer such incredible gifts yet, but if you really, really kicked some serious ass in his name, I could see it happening. I'll explain towards the bottom about my opinion on Malal. #3 Again, the Chapter just went renegade. The first fight against the Sororitas that lead to Excomm sounded more like a massacre than a fight, so I think losses would've been light there. But they did just come off of a long campain against Heretics in the Cilix 225 system, I'd imagine they lost at least a few there. Give a few years to recoup losses, and no longer having to adhere to the Codex (if they even ever did, lol) 1000-1300 sounds reasonable. I've always viewed Malal as the warp's immune system. He wishes to return the Immaterium to it's natural, primal, chaotic state, with no gods whatsoever, even himself. True Anarchy, even at the cost of his own existance. I don't think he's anti-chaos, but instead anti-chaos factions. Factions and Gods represent order, order is not chaos. On a side note, I think the Blood Gorgons could've been excellent Malal-ites with their view of freedom and primal actions, lol. Too bad. Anyhow, I think Malal would give out gifts, but he's cautious with giving out his powers, as he is trying to conserve strength to strike down the Gods. Those gifts he would give would be practical and useful, like rending claws, witch-sight, etc. Not: Word Bearer 1: "Dude, I just grew an eyeball out of my belly button!" Word Bearer 2: "Sweet! I can touch my tongue to my forehead now!" Both: "The Gods like us!" *high fives all around* Hells no. Not Malal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chaplain belisarius Posted May 13, 2011 Share Posted May 13, 2011 good point! i can imagine things are more black and white (excuse the pun!) with malal-its either victory and reward or failure and damnation! :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GooseDaMoose Posted May 13, 2011 Share Posted May 13, 2011 I think I have to disagree with hushrong and 1000heathens a bit on this one. 1) Sons of Malice are clearly stated as being a mainly infantry force, with rarely ever having been seen with tanks. This doesn't mean that your army can't be one of the forces that uses armour; it's your choice, I just wouldn't say it's fluffy :D 2) Again, I wouldn't say it's quite "fluffy" but either way I think you should go for it just because it has some excellent conversion opportunities! 3) Sons of Malice have 11 Companies (suprise suprise!) so that puts them at a pretty high number. I was thinking about whether or not they turned to Malal after being excommunicated: in the Labyrinth it's stated that they've done the ceremony eleven times, once every hundred years. So that would make them at least 1100 years old, and followers of Malal that long. But does anyone have any information on roughly when the Sons of Malice were founded? It is suggested that they were part of the founding that made a number of Chapters to protect the Imperium, called the Astartes Praeses founding. Anyone know when this was? Also, I don't think they turned rogue right before the 13th Black Crusade; it's stated as "some time before" so that could mean upto a century in the long timeline of things. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chaplain belisarius Posted May 13, 2011 Share Posted May 13, 2011 thats a problem-i run a mech army...:( Wasnt it the 20th founding or something like that? (i think i remember reading that about the astartes praeses somewhere) just checked lexicanium...no info on foundings for the astartes praeses but there were 20 of them (one was destroyed and 1 is traitor) hope this helped! :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hushrong Posted May 13, 2011 Author Share Posted May 13, 2011 Yeah, it seems like we got one of those mysterious chapters :) For their excommunication, I say it is around/before 900 M40. This gives the 1100 years for the summoning ceremony and then joining with the 13th Black Crusade to take back their homeworld. It is tough to say because so much is unknown about their past. Also another form of casaulties taken on are summoning ceremony hopefuls. I have been thinking about getting some spawn and painting the chapter tattoo on them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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